Pelikan 400 runs dry

[ggenovez]

Hi all,

 

I have an 80's Pelikan and it has an odd problem. The pen has ink in it but it runs dry after a page or so. It seams to stay dry. I need to twist the piston and fill the feed to get it running again.

 

I put in in some water with peroxide and soap over night and flushed it several times but it's still doing it.

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks

 

G

[KCat]

how about a little history on the pen. Is this one you have had and used for a while that is just now starting to do this? Or one you purchased recently but don't know the history of its usage?

 

It sounds like "feed starvation" which is, in my experience, rather unusual for a Pelikan. I've had a number of pels and never experienced this. But since it's an older pen it could be that there is "gunk" (highly scientific word) in the feed that will take more diligent cleaning than just soaking.

 

have you removed the nib unit to examine it or did you just soak and flush with nib installed?

 

I'm assuming this will be like most modern Pels and have a threaded nib unit. if so, you can gently unscrew the nib unit and get to the innards a bit better to get to clogs. a narrow tipped pipet or a syringe can fit fairly well on the small stem in the base of the nib unit and fluid can be forced through it to dislodge some particulate that might be in there. the nib might require more soaking.

 

I've never used peroxide but use either a mild soap and water mix or a mild ammonia and water mix (1 tsp ammonia to 2/3 cup - give or take). Do wait for other feedback on this besides mine though - I'm not positive about 80s pelikans and how they were made and if they are as tolerant of soaking as current models are. what model is this?

[ggenovez]

Thx KCat,

 

This is something I got from ebay. Of course the last user had left ink in it to dry. so it has gone through a few soakings.

 

No I have not taken it apart since I was not sure how to do so.

 

I did notice not to long ago that if is put the cap on and set it point down after about 5 or 10 minutes it does write for a bit. I do agree it's a starvation problem.

 

It's a M400.

 

By amonia do you mean "windex"? if not I'm not sure where to get pure or diluted amonia.

 

Thx

 

G

[wimg]

Hi gg,

 

The nib/feed combo on a 400 may be screwed out. Hold the nib, with your left hand, and turn the barrel with your right hand, counterclockwise. That should do the trick.

 

You can then soak the nib/feed, in Windex is fine, just some tap water with 1 or 2 drops of liquid dishwashing soap is great too. Leave it for a day or so, in the mean time try to clean the inside of the barrel, by rinsing and flushing.

 

If you do have some pure silicone grease, now is your chance, as you may want to apply that as well. Make sure the pen is dry on the inside. Turn the piston right up (as if you filled the pen completely), take a tooth pick, dab one of the tips in a little of the silicon grease (so at most you have a tiny, tiny drop of silicon grease on its tip), then try to apply little dabs with that one helping of it on the inside barrel wall, just underneath the piston. Next turn down the piston a little, and up again. A little more down, and up again, etc., until you are completely down and up again. This way you renew the seal to a degree, lubricate the piston, and protect the piston rubber. It should go up and down very easily after this treatment.

 

BTW, pure silicon grease in tubes, not in a spray can. It should not contain any petroleum based products; the spray can does. This is damaging to pens and rubber parts. Silicon grease is the grease, generally, that is used for taps, the transparant stuff.

 

Now, after the day of soaking, rinse the nib very thoroughly, maybe use an old toothbrush to clean the last remnants of rubbish between the fins, carefully.

 

Dry the nib, and screw it back in again, by turning the barrel rather than the nib. Make sure it is in properly. It should not be loose at all, but not so tight you can´t get it out anymore.

 

Let the pen dry over night, and fill it slowly the next day, a couple of times.

 

Next see if the pen is ok now. I would expect so anyway.

 

HTH, warm regards, Wim

[ggenovez]

Thanks Wim,

 

BTW where does one get silicon grease? I'm guessing autoparts store?

 

Also, what is the procedure if the nib/feed does not move by hand?

 

Thanks again

 

G

[wimg]

Hi gg,

Thanks Wim,

 

BTW where does one get silicon grease? I'm guessing autoparts store?

Yes, that's one of the options, or a store where they sell faucets and other bathroom equipment. Bicycle stores come to mind too, and diving equipment stores. Think of rubber parts that could come into contact with grease, and the store that sells those parts, will probably have it.

 

Also, what is the procedure if the nib/feed does not move by hand?

Well, that is a bit of a problem, I guess. I would use section pliers or something, i.e., since you are visiting an auto parts store, spark plug pliers (the cheap ones with the rubber/plastic capped ends). But I haven't come across one yet that couldn't be unscrewed by hand. Try this before you visit the store, I would recommend.

 

HTH, warm regards, Wim

[KCat]

i'd say if it doesn't unscrew, it's possible somebody mucked up the nib with a bad ink or worse, some sort of sealant. but the latter is very unlikely, the former, not so.

 

but you shouldn't have any trouble. Richard Binder shows a safe way to unscrew a nib like this to reduce the risk of misalignment or torquing the nib. I've gotten more relaxed about it but when dealing with a nib that might be stubborn, I think it wise to be as cautious as possible.

 

http://www.pentrace.net/penbase/Data_Retur...p?id=370&cname=

[ggenovez]

I just tried it and it did "unscrew". But there are no threads per se. I'll be giving it a good soak tonight.

 

Is it hard to remove the plunger on these models? Just wondering if I ever need to replace the piston.

 

Thx

 

G

[wimg]

Hi gg,

I just tried it and it did "unscrew". But there are no threads per se. I'll be giving it a good soak tonight.

Wow, stop here. It should have threads, in the part of the feed behind the nib, the part that disappears into the barrel. Here is a pic to show what I mean, of 3 Pel M200 nibs:

http://fp.vandebilt.net/pics/nibs/3%20nibs%202%20600.jpg

 

As you can see, just below the metal ring that holds the nib in place on the feed, there is a short part with screw thread. That is what we are talking about here.

 

Is it hard to remove the plunger on these models? Just wondering if I ever need to replace the piston.

 

Thx

 

G

Well, not too hard, with the right tools. You need a special key, flat on one end, round on the other, and quite flat. I am not the right person to ask, really.

If it is a reasonably recent 400, and M400, there should be no need just yet.

 

HTH, warm regards, Wim

[ggenovez]

I is just like that but without the treaded section. I put a scredriver inside to feel threads but I did not find any. there is a "bump" about a 1/4" deep could it have separated?

 

Also I went to my local autoparts store as well as home renovation (home depot) and neither had any silicone except in a spray.

Edited May 24, 2005 by ggenovez

[KCat]

Hi G.

 

I got this helpful response from Rick Propas.

 

Regarding the nib and why you aren't seeing threads:

 

To my knowledge, the only friction fit collars were the first year 400s in 1950, but then I don't know the more modern pens.

 

My guess is that the original poster just puled the nib and feed out of the collar, which stayed in the section.  That, by the way, is the safest way to deal with most all Pelikans.

 

KCat's thoughts - not an expert but a good bit of Pelikan experience with nib removal: That would have been my guess based on the circumstances. There shouldn't be a "bump" as you describe above so with Rick's comment and that info, then yes, the collar probably stayed behind. However, Rick seems to find that preferable. It does make me wonder if someone used some sort of cement or sealant on the threaded part of the section. I'm not sure I agree it's "the best way to deal with" this because the purpose of the threaded sections (I thought) was to allow for interchangeability. At any rate, I would say there's no damage there.

 

more from Rick:

Just looked at the thread.  Looks like you guys have worked out most of it.

 

In all probability soaking will take care of the feed and flow problems.  The trick will be in reassembly, to seat the nib and feed correctly.

 

The best advice I can offer is to set the feed as high on the nib as you can.  Unfortunately heating the thermoplastic feeds to reset the nibs on these pens is very tricky.  I'm not good at it, I would recommend  Richard Binder or Joel Hamilton.

 

i think that in the second paragraph he is talking about how to assure proper fit and flow when you reassemble the nib/feed. Beyond it being tricky to heat thermoplastic, it is also a risk of completely warping/melting the plastic. If it were ebonite, different situation. So... if the soaking, cleaning and a simple resetting doesn't get the job done, might be best to send it off to one of the experts.

 

It may be that when you reassemble it will fit just fine and flow just fine and that the only issue was clogging.

 

Far as removing the piston, you need to soak it a few days and then carefully heat it and then pull the barrel and section away from each other.  reassemble the piston with loads of PURE silicne paste which you cannot get at auto parts stores as easily as at diving supply stores.  The old points grease at auto parts stores was, I think, pure silicone, but what cars have points these days?

 

If it were me, I wouldn't mess with the piston except to grease it from the nib end. I just have heard of problems with this if you're new to it.

 

Re: the silicone grease. All depends on where you are. I couldn't find it at any auto parts store, but plenty of people have. I ended up ordering on-line but then I have no way of driving the distance to the nearest dive shop and when I asked at the local hardware store... i got blank stares. You may be more fortunate. Down here in TX it seems such a product is just not in great demand. I mean - who really wants to dive in Galveston Bay? As others pointed out - just be sure you get 100% silicone grease. there are silicone sprays that do not have petroleum products, but they can be messy. grease is the best, cheapest and most reliable. i had people guide me to silicone caulk, silicone spray, silicone parts and some even giggled (obviously thinking we were in California.) So I got tired of the hunt and spent the on-line bucks. :bonk:

[Ann Finley]

GG,

 

To buy silicone grease online from pen dealers, 2 sources are Pendemonium (under the heading Pen Repair Supplies) or Tryphon Enterprises.

 

HTH ,

Ann

[ggenovez]

Cool. Thx for the support. Putting the feed back in does work. The pen now has lots more ink and I have not seen any starvation problems.

 

I'm wondering if I can put some glue to re-attach it and then unscrew it. again, it's working, I'm happy with it and I'm probably not going to exchange points in the near future.

 

I did find that Lowes does sell silicone paste through their web site.

 

Here is the url

 

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=prod...lpage=none&bc=c

 

Yeah I got the run around at home depot. I also asked if they had any talc and they sent me to calc.

 

Yeah. loads of fun

 

G

 

BTW KCat, where about in Tx are you? I'm in dfw.

[KCat]

i wouldn't use any glue - two reasons:

 

1) you risk clogging the feed in a way that is almost irreparable

2) as long as you can remove the nib and feed, then you can fix any problems. In all likelihood, as time goes on and fresh ink soaks into the threaded area, it will eventually soften any ink deposits that might be holding it in place and will be removable. (assumes it wasn't cemented in).

 

I'd say stick with what you got as long as it's working well.

 

I'm south of Houston. Soon to be further south and out in the boonies. Depending on your definition of "soon."

[wimg]

Hi gg,

 

I think I found the stuff, at Lowes' web site. Couldn't get to load the page you provided, but here is a copy of what I did find:

Radiator Specialty

Silicone Grease

Item #: 817      Model: GR-2V-D

$3.36

 

1/2 oz.

Non-toxic, non-flammable

Meets all applicable FDA regulations

Faucet repair lubricant

And here's the link to the picture on their site, zoomable as well:

Plumber's Silicon Grease

 

HTH, warm regards, Wim

[KCat]

you would have to be able to give your zip code and then they let you in. but it may not be prepared to accept a Netherlands postal code.

[wimg]

you would have to be able to give your zip code and then they let you in.  but it may not be prepared to accept a Netherlands postal code.

Ha! I do have the zip code of a few fellow FPN-ers in the US, just by total coincidence

 

Warm regards, Wim

[ggenovez]

That's the stuff.

 

I also found a similar brand at home depot. In the plumbing section. I asked if it was for connecting fittings and they said yes.

 

looks like petrolium jelly.

 

Is that waht it is supposed to look like? there are no "ingridients" on the package.

[wimg]

Hi gg,

 

It may look like it, but shouldn't smell like it. It should be pure silicone grease, as far as I know. Because faucet washers are made of rubber, you can't use petroleum based products, as they eat rubber for breakfast. And for gas piping, well that's obvious, I guess, silicon grease not being flammable, etc.

 

HTH, warm regards, Wim

[ggenovez]

Excellent.

 

Well I also have a 70's Pelikan 100. Does the nib & feed come out the same way?