Parker 51 Flow Improving With Use Post-Flush?

[pendragondragon]

Hello again!

 

So in the process of figuring out the cap issue (or lack thereof really) with my first Parker 51, I've been using it a bit every day. It was a hard starter, but has become much less so in the week since I did a 36 hour flush. It used to start hard ~50% of the time, now it is more like ~10%, and it has been steadily improving. I know that I've read that after flushing it can take time for pens to re-break in. Is it possible this is what is going on?

 

I'm mainly wondering if constant use after a good flush to loosen things up could actually serve to lubricate the pen's collector and remove any remaining dried up ink. Or is the dried up ink going to always be a problem until I get in their and clean it off? Or could I be damaging the pen using it with any amount of dried ink still inside?

 

On a related point, if ink is enough of a lubricant to slowly clean the collector of the last bit of dried ink, would a lubricated ink speed up the process? I have a bottle of Noodler's Eel Blue I've used with my 580 that I could try. I know some people also add a drop of dish soap to ink in the process of watering down/mixing for lubrication...

 

Any insight on this issue would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!!

 

 

[rochester21]

Hm......though call. Go to the store and buy something like Koh-i-Noor Rapido Eze, and try it out. It can`t hurt. Flush the pen with water first, then fill it up with Rapido-Eze and leave it for a while, the flush and repeat the process, if the rapido eze comes out tainted with ink.

 

A 5 dollar ultrasonic cleaner from ebay could help out as well. Or you could sent it to a professional, shouldn`t cost much to sort things out.

 

Dried ink won`t hurt the pen more than it did before you started using it. And i wouldn`t count on any "lubricated ink". But how can you be sure the problem is dried ink only? Maybe the nib needs some attention as well.

Edited February 5, 2014 by rochester21

[Mike 59]

Hi, Assuming your 51 was owned by someone else before you, it's impossible to know how it was used or looked after. If you don't want to take the hood and collector apart to find out what it's like inside, then several flushes through with water and dish washing up liquid should be enough to clean it, as long as it was used in a reasonable way before.

The worst case I have seen was a '45' that was ignored for many years and left full of ink.

That took 2 days of soaking and 6 changes of water, but it did clean out.

I have found with a few new pens, that they need to be inked for several weeks before they write well, and some only seem to work after several cycles of flushing and inking, (and writing !)

Of course it could be a nib gap issue, where no amount of cleaning will cure it.

I would keep on writing with it, could be all it really needs, as it sounds like it's improving already.

My own normal flushing solution is 2 drops of dish washing up detergent, in a glass about half full of water.

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

My experience is in harmony with yours: Unless one takes the pen to bits for cleansing, performance will often continue to improve during use - even after an enthusiastic clean-up.

 

I'm mainly wondering if constant use after a good flush to loosen things up could actually serve to lubricate the pen's collector and remove any remaining dried up ink.

> I don't think it would 'lubricate' the collector, but it may well reduce any inky residue.

Or is the dried up ink going to always be a problem until I get in their and clean it off?

Or could I be damaging the pen using it with any amount of dried ink still inside?

> I think that most pens operate very well with some inky residue - the design has headroom. The primary problem I envision would be the inky residue reacting with inks that are not of the same 'family'. e.g. If there is residue from an iron-gall ink, then it may react with a nano particle ink to form a stubborn residue.

 

As a matter of personal practice with such pens, I keep them fully charged with a benign/cleansing ink, and use as my casual carry / jotting pen. If I can't keep them in use, then I'll flush the ink, fill with water, and leave them 'on deck' until I get back to them in a few days.

 

You may also find this Topic to be of interest: 'Best Ink To Use In Between High Maintenance Inks (Something Lubricating?)' https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/251595-best-ink-to-use-in-between-high-maintenance-inks-something-lubricating/?p=2762032

 

Bye,

S1

Edited February 5, 2014 by Sandy1

[OcalaFlGuy]

Extended soaking and flushing isn't a be all, end all situation IMO. (Nor was it ever said to be that.)

 

IF the Aero breather tube isn't damaged or clogged I think a thorough 36 hr. soak and flush Willl get the Vast Majority of Aero's up and running again. However, There Will Be some smaller percentage of pens that Still won't be writing as they should after the long soak and flush.

 

Those then need to go to someone who can address the internal issues Other Than lack of cleanliness that are causing the issue(s).

 

If there is one thing to be taken from the "You've got your first found in the wild P-51, now what?" thread, It is that the pen internals particular to these type of Parkers often Won't Respond very well to a quick, down and easy soak and flush the many other pens Will respond favorably to.

 

As also mentioned there, a secondary purpose was pen problem identification in that the extensive soak and flush would Then point to some Other issue(s) Than Just lack of cleanliness.

 

If after the long SoakNFlush things aren't right, the pen needs to go to someone who can finish the job you've started. These are too nice of pens to be content with "just almost good enough".

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

[Sandy1]

Extended soaking and flushing isn't a be all, end all situation IMO. (Nor was it ever said to be that.)

 

>snip<

 

If after the long SoakNFlush things aren't right, the pen needs to go to someone who can finish the job you've started. These are too nice of pens to be content with "just almost good enough".

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

+1

[pendragondragon]

Hm......though call. Go to the store and buy something like Koh-i-Noor Rapido Eze, and try it out. It can`t hurt. Flush the pen with water first, then fill it up with Rapido-Eze and leave it for a while, the flush and repeat the process, if the rapido eze comes out tainted with ink.

 

A 5 dollar ultrasonic cleaner from ebay could help out as well. Or you could sent it to a professional, shouldn`t cost much to sort things out.

 

Dried ink won`t hurt the pen more than it did before you started using it. And i wouldn`t count on any "lubricated ink". But how can you be sure the problem is dried ink only? Maybe the nib needs some attention as well.

 

Thanks! I did flush with water+ammonia for 24 hours then with water for another 12 then let it dry thoroughly, so maybe I should be paying more attention to the nib as you say.

 

Hi, Assuming your 51 was owned by someone else before you, it's impossible to know how it was used or looked after. If you don't want to take the hood and collector apart to find out what it's like inside, then several flushes through with water and dish washing up liquid should be enough to clean it, as long as it was used in a reasonable way before.

The worst case I have seen was a '45' that was ignored for many years and left full of ink.

That took 2 days of soaking and 6 changes of water, but it did clean out.

I have found with a few new pens, that they need to be inked for several weeks before they write well, and some only seem to work after several cycles of flushing and inking, (and writing !)

Of course it could be a nib gap issue, where no amount of cleaning will cure it.

I would keep on writing with it, could be all it really needs, as it sounds like it's improving already.

My own normal flushing solution is 2 drops of dish washing up detergent, in a glass about half full of water.

 

Thanks! I will look into the nib gap issue, and take your words as encouragement to keep writing with the pen (every time it skips a teeny bit I have the urge to flush it and mail it off right away---I am way more forgiving of my modern pens which is kind of funny I suppose).

 

Hi,

 

My experience is in harmony with yours: Unless one takes the pen to bits for cleansing, performance will often continue to improve during use - even after an enthusiastic clean-up.

 

I'm mainly wondering if constant use after a good flush to loosen things up could actually serve to lubricate the pen's collector and remove any remaining dried up ink.

> I don't think it would 'lubricate' the collector, but it may well reduce any inky residue.

Or is the dried up ink going to always be a problem until I get in their and clean it off?

Or could I be damaging the pen using it with any amount of dried ink still inside?

> I think that most pens operate very well with some inky residue - the design has headroom. The primary problem I envision would be the inky residue reacting with inks that are not of the same 'family'. e.g. If there is residue from an iron-gall ink, then it may react with a nano particle ink to form a stubborn residue.

 

As a matter of personal practice with such pens, I keep them fully charged with a benign/cleansing ink, and use as my casual carry / jotting pen. If I can't keep them in use, then I'll flush the ink, fill with water, and leave them 'on deck' until I get back to them in a few days.

 

You may also find this Topic to be of interest: 'Best Ink To Use In Between High Maintenance Inks (Something Lubricating?)' https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/251595-best-ink-to-use-in-between-high-maintenance-inks-something-lubricating/?p=2762032

 

Bye,

S1

 

Thanks, S1! This is very helpful. And I definitely found the topic you linked as useful. Can Quink with Solv-X only be found vintage on Ebay? It doesn't look like the new Quink products have it?

 

Extended soaking and flushing isn't a be all, end all situation IMO. (Nor was it ever said to be that.)

 

IF the Aero breather tube isn't damaged or clogged I think a thorough 36 hr. soak and flush Willl get the Vast Majority of Aero's up and running again. However, There Will Be some smaller percentage of pens that Still won't be writing as they should after the long soak and flush.

 

Those then need to go to someone who can address the internal issues Other Than lack of cleanliness that are causing the issue(s).

 

If there is one thing to be taken from the "You've got your first found in the wild P-51, now what?" thread, It is that the pen internals particular to these type of Parkers often Won't Respond very well to a quick, down and easy soak and flush the many other pens Will respond favorably to.

 

As also mentioned there, a secondary purpose was pen problem identification in that the extensive soak and flush would Then point to some Other issue(s) Than Just lack of cleanliness.

 

If after the long SoakNFlush things aren't right, the pen needs to go to someone who can finish the job you've started. These are too nice of pens to be content with "just almost good enough".

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

Thanks, Bruce! I should have been more clear in my original post. I did follow your pinned post in flushing the pen before I first inked it. The water+ammonia became a bit discolored over the first few hours but was clear for the next ~20 even with cycling every few hours, and shaking the flush in the sac did clean it a bit form a brownish opaque to a blue semi-transparent. I don't hear any rattling that could be the breather tube but don't know if that is a problem for sure. I was able to get ~1mL of ink into the pen pretty easily.

 

I agree completely with your attitude about not being content with "just almost good enough." This is why I am obsessing over a tiny bit of hard starting and skipping. My question, which may have been raised before on FPN, is whether there are any restorers out there that I should trust and that don't have a 4 month wait? For p51 #s 2 or 3 I won't mind the wait, but for #1 I ideally want to be able to use it sooner rather than later.

 

Thanks a lot for all of the super-helpful replies again!

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

I use PQBlBk with SOLV-X as my daily writer at the office, so when travelling I stop in some of the smaller independent pen/stationery shops to see if they have a cache. So far so good - the last major haul was made during a ski trip to South America.

 

While I reckon that inks with SOLV-X are proven to be effective, the linked Topic indicates that other much more commonly available inks also have cleansing attributes. That said, Parker Quink BlBk with SOLV-X is a magnificent ink, so may be worth paying a reasonable premium. (See the ICS&T Forum for various depictions of that ink. )

 

Also, as the most common inky residue from pens found in the wild is Blue thru Black, it would be advantageous to use a 'telltale' ink, such as Red, which would reveal inky residue coming free. (I often charge a pen with Noodler's Firefly, a Yellow colour highlighting ink, before declaring a pen found in the wild to be as well cleansed as I can manage : If it writes Green-Brown within a week, I need to carry on cleansing.)

 

Bye,

S1

Edited February 5, 2014 by Sandy1

[pendragondragon]

Hi,

 

I use PQBlBk with SOLV-X as my daily writer at the office, so when travelling I stop in some of the smaller independent pen/stationery shops to see if they have a cache. So far so good - the last major haul was made during a ski trip to South America.

 

While I reckon that inks with SOLV-X are proven to be effective, the linked Topic indicates that other much more commonly available inks also have cleansing attributes. That said, Parker Quink BlBk with SOLV-X is a magnificent ink, so may be worth paying a reasonable premium. (See the ICS&T Forum for various depictions of that ink. )

 

Also, as the most common inky residue from pens found in the wild is Blue thru Black, it would be advantageous to use a 'telltale' ink, such as Red, which would reveal inky residue coming free. (I often charge a pen with Noodler's Firefly, a Yellow colour highlighting ink, before declaring a pen found in the wild to be as well cleansed as I can manage : If it writes Green-Brown within a week, I need to carry on cleansing.)

 

Bye,

S1

 

Thanks again, S1! I will check my local stationary shops, and I suppose I will use my Blue Eel in the meantime. Another ink on my list, and one that is more of a hunt. Fun!

 

And you're red/yellow ink recommendation makes a lot of sense. I don't feel like I'm there yet, but maybe after another cleanse and a round of ink and use.

[Florida Blue]

 

I agree completely with your attitude about not being content with "just almost good enough." This is why I am obsessing over a tiny bit of hard starting and skipping. My question, which may have been raised before on FPN, is whether there are any restorers out there that I should trust and that don't have a 4 month wait? For p51 #s 2 or 3 I won't mind the wait, but for #1 I ideally want to be able to use it sooner rather than later.

 

I have had Tim Girdler work on a couple of 51s for me recently and he did a great job. His turnaround time should be pretty quick. http://timgirdlerpens.com

[J English Smith]

Try the Rapido-Ease 50/50 with water for a "problem" 51. I had one that took five or so flushes with the stuff, and then it opened up and was just fine. As long as you are getting color when you flush it out, some of the old ink is dissolving. Cheaper than sending out for service until you determine it's no go...

[pendragondragon]

Try the Rapido-Ease 50/50 with water for a "problem" 51. I had one that took five or so flushes with the stuff, and then it opened up and was just fine. As long as you are getting color when you flush it out, some of the old ink is dissolving. Cheaper than sending out for service until you determine it's no go...

 

Thanks! Is Rapido-Ease any different than homemade pen flush (9 parts distilled water to 1 part 10% ammonia with a dash of unscented dish soap)? I've read that all of the commercial flushes are essentially the same thing?

 

And yes it seems I need to keep flushing for the time being. I haven't been getting any more ink dissolving but I know Bruce says you can randomly get a big bunch after a long time with clear water...

[OcalaFlGuy]

Rapido-Eze is essentially the Drano of pen cleaners. It will dissolve the lacquer base of India inks that ALL other pen cleaners would whimper in submission to.

 

People Will try and put Anything into a pen, India ink is certainly a possibility even if not a probability.

 

I had 51 Aero with Known India ink in it. I looked close under the hood with it still on and caught the amber glint of a sliver of the dried lacquer base. (Yes, I Was Not a happy camper. ) For gigglesNgrins, I soaked it up to the clutch ring for a couple days in Pure Rapido-Eze. (I also agree that 50/50 should be the max concentration.) Then I opened it up to be sure. It took just a little go over on the feed, nib and collector with a toothbrush but they Were Basically clean.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

[pendragondragon]

Rapido-Eze is essentially the Drano of pen cleaners. It will dissolve the lacquer base of India inks that ALL other pen cleaners would whimper in submission to.

 

People Will try and put Anything into a pen, India ink is certainly a possibility even if not a probability.

 

I had 51 Aero with Known India ink in it. I looked close under the hood with it still on and caught the amber glint of a sliver of the dried lacquer base. (Yes, I Was Not a happy camper. ) For gigglesNgrins, I soaked it up to the clutch ring for a couple days in Pure Rapido-Eze. (I also agree that 50/50 should be the max concentration.) Then I opened it up to be sure. It took just a little go over on the feed, nib and collector with a toothbrush but they Were Basically clean.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

Bruce, Thanks! I didn't know this. I have decided to send my pen in so I suppose I will find out from another whether I should have needed the Drano. And now on to my hunt for a second vintage Parker. I think I will go for a 45 flighter this time. Or another 51. Tough choices...

[ac12]

It is not the lubricant in the ink but the liquid ink itself that is disolving the old ink from inside the pen.

So using an old pen that is not quite clean, the new ink will be acting like a mild cleaner, softening and disolving the old ink.

 

Well different inks are well different, so you will get a different feel when you write with it. I think rather than the pen breaking in with the new ink, you are getting used to its performance with the new ink. I sometimes get a significant difference in feel when I switch from Waterman to Cross, or Cross to Waterman.