My rather embarrassing handwriting

[dappledawndrawn]

One poem, two languages, unpretty either way...

[Renzhe]

Both are pretty legible. I think the Chinese is more legible than most I've seen.

 

The English is very nice. The only thing I would say is that since your writing is mostly disconnected, I would start the "l" from the top instead of the baseline. Everything else is just regularity, I suppose.

 

For Chinese...how nitpicky would you like me to be? Functionally it's fine.

 

By the way, what ink is that?

Edited February 22, 2007 by Renzhe

[KateGladstone]

I second the comments made by Renzhe — and also feel curious about the quite pretty ink!

[dappledawndrawn]

Thanks, guys. I just wish I knew how to make it look, y'know, *cough* prettier. (Maybe a different choice of pen...)

 

The ink is the unremarkably named "Blue", out of a Pilot IC-50 cartridge. It's a clear water-based ink, prone to feathering a little at the edges on most of the paper I've tried.

[dappledawndrawn]

Oh yes -- for the Chinese, as for the English -- basically I'd like to go beyond basic functionality and legibility to a position where looking at the handwriting is pleasurable in itself.

[Renzhe]

You appear to be writing 楷書.

 

Vertical strokes should be truly vertical. To slant it to the right is to give it a strong Western accent.

 

The slant that you apply to horizontal strokes is okay.

 

Some characters (like 离，街，州) look stretched. Try to make all characters fit in a square. They don't have to be perfectly square.

 

Some radicals (又 in 观, 乂 in 飘, 又 in 对) should make good use of the vertical space provided.

 

The third stroke in 近 should begin at the middle of the second stroke, just before the second stroke starts curving to the left. (You begin it at the top of the second stroke.)

 

The first stroke in 七 is a 橫. You appear to have written a 撇, making 七 look like 匕.

 

The second stroke in 君 should cross two strokes.

 

Become familiar with the different types of strokes in 楷書; The Eight Principles of Yong are a good start, but I think they miss some strokes. Try to reproduce these strokes with a fountain pen. After that, for each stroke you write, know what kind of stroke you're writing.

 

Know how strokes intersect at the bottom right corner of box-like shapes. In the bottom right corner of 口, the horizontal stroke should come under the vertical stroke. In all other box-like shapes (with or without things inside), the vertical stroke goes past the horizontal stroke and ends with a hook, and the horizontal stroke meets the vertical stroke's hook. Example:

 

http://i17.tinypic.com/2zhedmc.png

 

Also note that "wide" box-like shapes (like 口, 曰, and 田) commonly trapezoidal when written, and "tall" box-like shapes (like 日, 目, 因) are commonly rectangular.

 

If you aren't in the PRC, I suggest you abandon their writing system. All it does is save time and ink.

Edited February 23, 2007 by Renzhe

[dappledawndrawn]

Wow! That's plenty to work on and digest... thanks!!

 

I live in Singapore, which uses the simplified PRC system -- so not much choice there. Insisting on traditional characters round here gets you funny looks.

 

Thanks again!

[Renzhe]

(You're welcome!)

...and after that, you'll probably find yourself writing kind of slow. You'll probably start merging some strokes and curving some corners as you speed up. Nevertheless, it's good to know the basics so you can have a foundation to build upon.

[BrianTung]

One poem, two languages, unpretty either way...

 

I know this thread isn't active anymore, but I have a reference that might be useful to anyone learning to write kaishu with a fountain pen (or to a lesser extent, with any kind of non-brush instrument). The book is entitled, surprisingly enough, Learn to Write Chinese Characters, by Johan Bjorksten. ISBN 0-300-05771-7, published 1994.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Learn-Write-Chinese-...9780&sr=1-1

 

It has some good advice on posture, preparation, instruments, the role of pressure and angle in producing the proper line widths and gradations. Be prepared to spend hours and hours practicing. Pay close attention to proportions; it's often easy to write good radicals, and yet fail to assemble them into a pleasing complete character.

 

Much of this practice can be boring if, unlike me, you don't enjoy writing letters (or characters) over and over again for their own sake. But pride in your ability to produce (even occasionally) a well-turned word or phrase is its own reward.

 

I also think that fantizi are more attractive than jiantizi. Of course, that's what I was brought up with, so who knows, I may be biased. No one's suggesting that you insist on them, but I imagine when writing a poem, it cannot be unheard of to use the traditional script.

 

Nice poem. I like the parallels in the middle couplets. I'm curious: Are you following a relaxed pingze, or are you not concerned with that? Rhymes? I wouldn't have asked, except for the parallels.

 

Maybe sometime I will try to post one of my own...

Edited June 5, 2007 by BrianTung

[Shangas]

I sucked writing Chinese in school. But that there is pretty neat. If I could write like that, I'd be set.

 

I don't see that there's anything to be embarrassed by. It looks pretty neat.

[domino]

I can't read Chinese, so nothing there is offered.

I could however read your cursive OK. You could improve it

by taking the time to form the letters slowly. I have a similar

problem when writing. I want to go fast. So I write sloppy.

Keep trying to improve it and you will. Good luck.

Edited May 20, 2007 by domino

[wvbeetlebug]

I see nothing to be embarrassed about either. I like the way you make your lowercase F's.

[karenfromatlanta]

Your mixed print/cursive style is nice. Consider linking the cursive letters like l, h, y to the next letter you write. They don't all have to be linked, but it could make your writing 'feel' better. -or- leave out all cursive letters and do a slanted printing style.

 

The Chinese penmanship discussion is great. I'm learning to write and my teacher giggles because my chinese characters still look like a child's writing.

[dappledawndrawn]

Wow! I didn't realise this thread was active again... Thanks everyone for the encouragement and comments!

 

Been doing a bit of occasional practice, and hopefully things look nicer now. This second sample was written using one of Richard Binder's cursive italic nibs on a Rhodia pad. I suddenly realise that, when writing Chinese, gridded paper is a GODSEND.

 

Fanti isn't all that familiar to me -- was brought up with jianti. But I've tried to write this version using fantizi, though I daresay I've probably gotten a bit mixed up somewhere... am no expert in Chinese myself

 

And Brian -- the poem itself was written in English, in imitation of Chinese lushi (though without rhymes). The Chinese version is in fact a translation, rendered by a friend of mine. It's funny how often people think the English is the translation instead

 

 

 

[BrianTung]

Wow! I didn't realise this thread was active again... Thanks everyone for the encouragement and comments!

 

Been doing a bit of occasional practice, and hopefully things look nicer now. This second sample was written using one of Richard Binder's cursive italic nibs on a Rhodia pad. I suddenly realise that, when writing Chinese, gridded paper is a GODSEND.

 

Fanti isn't all that familiar to me -- was brought up with jianti. But I've tried to write this version using fantizi, though I daresay I've probably gotten a bit mixed up somewhere... am no expert in Chinese myself

 

And Brian -- the poem itself was written in English, in imitation of Chinese lushi (though without rhymes). The Chinese version is in fact a translation, rendered by a friend of mine. It's funny how often people think the English is the translation instead

 

I don't think I really knew one way or the other (or even thought about) which poem came first--I was just curious as to whether the Chinese version was put together with pingze rules in mind.

 

Yes, gridded paper is very useful. At the very least, grids to keep the characters the same size and in straight rows and columns. Calligraphy is often studied with big grids divided into 3x3 subgrids to help align the various parts of the characters.

 

Your characters still lean a bit too much to the right, but your Chinese writing has indeed improved. One thing you might try is to sit with the paper straight in front of you, not tilted to the side, as is typical with English writing. I also wouldn't use an italic nib, although I admit that's a personal preference to some extent. I don't think it is well suited for Chinese calligraphy.

 

One small nitpick: In some of your characters (e.g., bu4 "not", qian1 "thousand", tian1 "day", fei1 "fly", ji4 "mail", and a few others to a lesser degree), the top part is large somewhat out of proportion with the rest of the character, and it slightly upsets the balance of the character.

 

However, don't let my comments distract or discourage you--they are only intended to suggest modest improvements. As long as you are enjoying writing Chinese (or English!), that's the most important thing. Good luck!

Edited June 5, 2007 by BrianTung

[Renzhe]

Whoa. I didn't know you posted another sample. It's much improved!

 

Perhaps you might try writing vertically. It could help you keep your vertical strokes vertical.

 

Here's the poem in Traditional Chinese, if you're interested:

 

朝夕相思不想見

網上來往不如近

離別己飛七十天

相隔猶存七十里

君觀窗外白雪飄

余步街上寒雨密

同望明月不甘心

寧過海州面對面

[Excoriar]

I've noticed that by using fountain pens it's forcing me to improve my penmanship. Keep practicing!

[jinzhidl]

Edited October 12, 2007 by jinzhidl

[HDoug]

I am so intrigued by this poem. Someone tell us what this is, who it is, or translate it or expound upon it. I see a number of doubled characters. What is that about?

[hardyb]

See if you can pick up some manuals on Italic Cursive handwriting (Gaby?). Very like yours and with alittle practice could help you improve. This forum can give you the names of some good ones (Posters here: Caliken, Gladstone). Also see the 3 attachment below:

Edited October 12, 2007 by hardyb