How To Attach A Silicone Sac, And Have It Stay On?

[gregamckinney]

My apologies if this is a repeat question. I searched, but couldn't find anything.

 

I have a Delta demonstrator that is a button filler. I would like to replace the original latex sac with a clear silicone one.

However, so far I have not had any luck getting the silicone sacs to stay. I'm using quality and new sac adhesive, but I'm guessing there is something better, specifically for silicone sacs.

Thanks for your help.

greg

[Paul Raposo]

David made a suggestion for silicone sac adhesive:

 

http://vintagepensblog.blogspot.ca/2013/05/silicone-ink-sacs-additional-notes.html

 

Although we started out using and recommending the traditional standby, shellac, for attaching these sacs, we have found that a stronger and more reliable seal is provided by a silicone sealant such as Devcon Silicone Adhesive 12045 (Loctite 908570 is another brand successfully used by customers). It should be noted that these silicone adhesives give off acetic acid as they cure, and most contain some petroleum distillates. Sac nipples of hard rubber will not be affected, nor are hard plastics such as acrylic and polycarbonate likely to be vulnerable. Celluloid could be affected, but this is more a theoretical than a practical concern given the very small quantity of sealant required for sac attachment. In practice, I have had no problems to date using silicone adhesive to attach silicone sacs to celluloid sections (noting that the solvent in shellac, alcohol, is also a solvent for celluloid, which would seem much more problematical in comparison).

 

Hope this helps, Greg

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Also please keep in mind that a great many of the sacs sold as silicone are in fact vinyl, with or without silicone additives. Which is precisely why I gave up on my original plan to use a silicone sac when rebuilding my Wearever Pennant, and instead bought enough latex sacs to provide myself with spares.

[gregamckinney]

Thanks for the feedback and pointers. I now have some Devcon on order.

 

greg

[Paul Raposo]

Also please keep in mind that a great many of the sacs sold as silicone are in fact vinyl, with or without silicone additives. Which is precisely why I gave up on my original plan to use a silicone sac when rebuilding my Wearever Pennant, and instead bought enough latex sacs to provide myself with spares.

 

Great point, James. The sacs I bought from Woodbin are in fact PVC. To date, David is the only seller with true silicone sacs. I've also stuck with latex sacs myself.

 

Thanks for the feedback and pointers. I now have some Devcon on order.

 

greg

 

Keep us updated on the progress of the repair, Greg

[fountainbel]

Complementary to the shellack sealing ,one can't wind and tighten a 0.3mm copper wire over the mounted sac on the nipple.

At least when the diameter step between the sac nipple and the collar which fits in the barrel is large enough,

I always apply this approach- when possible - and it works perfectly.

Francis

[OcalaFlGuy]

I believe it is generally accepted that latex sacs "work" better than the PVC ones. The PVC ones were a compromise for when it was known For Sure that latex degradation would adversely affect a certain pen material/patterning.

 

I have not heard new info on how well the new true Silicone sacs "suck" compared to latex.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

[mhosea]

I think the genuine silicone sacs that David sells "suck" quite well. I do have a couple of comments:

 

1. The notice he gives about needing to store the pen nib-up when inked should not be discounted at all. I personally find that Snorkels are fairly forgiving of horizontal or near-horizontal storage but my Sheaffer Balance pens most definitely are not. At first I hoped that propping up the nib end in my pen case would be enough, but in fact the angle must be sufficient that the ink falls away from the feed during storage.

 

2. I generally like to install undersized sacs for thermodynamic reasons and because I never want a big fill to begin with as often as I rotate pens, but silicone glue sets up so slowly that I have had to hold the sac on the nipple for upwards of 40 minutes. Well, I don't know for certain I had to hold it that long, but after having one pop off a couple of times, my eyes start playing tricks on me as to whether it is starting to slip, and I can get a little bit "determined". If I had any sense, I'd figure out something to use as a clamp before installing the sac, something strong enough to hold but gentle enough on what might not be a very strong nipple, but so far I've been too eager to finish the restoration to work that out. I'd be reluctant to use thin copper wire on a pure silicone sac because they cut easily.

[fountainbel]

I believe it is generally accepted that latex sacs "work" better than the PVC ones. The PVC ones were a compromise for when it was known For Sure that latex degradation would adversely affect a certain pen material/patterning.

 

I have not heard new info on how well the new true Silicone sacs "suck" compared to latex.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

Agreed, but the fumes of a latex sac can attack/ discolor-ate some celluloid pens, so it is fully understandable people opt for latex sacs on such pens;

francis

[OcalaFlGuy]

EXACTLY the point of my second sentence above.

 

(My comment was made more in the vein of those using PVC sacs in pens where the material of the pen doesn't really "require" non-latex.)

 

[EDIT] Mike, there was a recent thread on sacs going walk about while being fitted. I think it was Jim Baer that said Richard will tack a sac down with Scotch tape while it sets. Sure sounded like a jammin' idea to me.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

Edited December 3, 2013 by OcalaFlGuy

[mhosea]

 

[EDIT] Mike, there was a recent thread on sacs going walk about while being fitted. I think it was Jim Baer that said Richard will tack a sac down with Scotch tape while it sets. Sure sounded like a jammin' idea to me.

 

 

I tried that once when I was a rank beginner. It didn't work out, but I'm sure I screwed it up in one way or another.

[ac12]

Wind some solid core wire around the sac/nipple just until the cement sets, then unwind the wire.

[mhosea]

Possible but this seems easier said than done. Have you actually tried this method with undersized silicone sacs and silicone glue, or is this advice for latex sacs and shellac?

[ac12]

I have not used silicone sacs...yet. But when I settle down and choose one of my sac pens to be a regular carry pen, I plan to change from latex to silicone sac for that pen.

So far my latex sacs have stayed on when I put them on the nipple, so I have not had to "hold" them on the nipple while the cement cured.

[michelim]

HI,

Is it possible to you to post photos of the pen disassembled?

[gregamckinney]

Well, after some shipping delays, my tube of Devcon Silicone Adhesive 12045 arrived last Monday.

I was extremely careful not to get any adhesive anywhere but on the sac nipple, and not to use too much.

Everything looked good, and I let it cure for 24 hours. After that, I carried it for a few days with just water in the pen.

After 3 or so days with no leaks, I inked it up Sunday night. Everything seems good.

Thanks for all the help!

 

Not a great picture, but the best I could do quickly with my phone:

http://gergyor.com/images/fpn/delta-buttonfiller-devcon12045.jpg

 

greg

[Paul Raposo]

Excellent work, Greg

 

After using the pen for a while, let us know what you think of the silicone sac. You get a great view, considering the demonstrator barrel.

 

And you're phone pic is better than my camera pictures.

[gregamckinney]

 

HI,

Is it possible to you to post photos of the pen disassembled?

 

 

This isn't the best photo, but it shows the individual components:

 

http://gergyor.com/images/fpn/delta-button-filler-disassembled.png

 

Regards, greg

[FarmBoy]

Hello in Kirkland

Where did you get your adhesive, my supplier has none.

Hope all is well with Costco and MS.

 

Shoot me an em, want to talk about your next trip down...

 

Todd

[gregamckinney]

Hey Todd,

I got mine from Amazon (don't tell the MS folks.)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001005TX2/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

 

I'll send you an email as well.

 

Best, greg