Parker 51 Nibs Feel Rather Gritty.

[casualmerlinconstant]

Hi,I am completely new to vintage pens And have recently bought two parker 51s one aero and one vacumatic. I filled the aero one with waterman Florida blue and the vacumatic with pelikan brilliant green and both pens seem rather gritty when I write, is this normal for 51s? Should I just write with them a bit more to wear the nib down a bit? Thanks!

[xwingrox]

I agree. But then again, I've had poor luck finding smooth writing 51's off of ebay for a good price. I also think it is harder to adjust the 51's tubular-style nib. Buying a replacement is usually another shot in the dark unless you want to send it in to a nibmeister which can get pricy. I'll keep an eye on this thread just in case you find a solution - the Parker 51 is too good of a pen for both of us to have bad writing experiences!

[farmersmums]

51 nibs, just like any other vintage nibs, are subject to wear and tear and potential misalignment of the tines from any number of causes. I've found that in most cases a minor adjustment of the tines with a fingernail can do wonders, and in those cases where it doesn't, a few figure 8's on a micromesh pad take care of the rest. You'll just want to have a loupe or magnifier handy and go slowly- don't want to grind away the tipping!

[casualmerlinconstant]

Thanks! I have gently pressed bent the tines a bit, seemed to get better and wetter, but after a few sentences it'd revert. Maybe I've been too gentle. I haven't got a loupe though so a little afraid of breaking the pen lol.

[casualmerlinconstant]

I agree. But then again, I've had poor luck finding smooth writing 51's off of ebay for a good price. I also think it is harder to adjust the 51's tubular-style nib. Buying a replacement is usually another shot in the dark unless you want to send it in to a nibmeister which can get pricy. I'll keep an eye on this thread just in case you find a solution - the Parker 51 is too good of a pen for both of us to have bad writing experiences!

Thanks hahahaha hopefully we will figure it out Edited November 1, 2013 by superglueshoe

[ac12]

When you say "gritty" what exactly do you mean?

Is it a scratchy feel in ALL directions or just one; Left to Right, Right to Left, Top to Bottom, Bottom to Top ????

A scratchy feel in a L->R, or L<-R direction is an indication that the tips of the nib are out of alignment.

 

The problem with the P51 is that the nib is inside a hood that you CANNOT take off w/o knowledge and skill.

Thus you cannot access the nib like you can with an exposed nib. And there is very little that you can do regarding nib manipulation.

Having said that, you NEED a 10x loupe (or higher magnification) to see the tip of the nib, and to see if they are in alignment or not.

 

What size is your nib XtraFine, Fine, Medium, Broad ?

If it is XF or F, there is not much that you can do to the pen. I think the tipping technology of 60+ years ago is not as advanced as it is today. The smaller tips are more sensitive to the surface texture of the paper. The easiest option is to switch to a paper with a SMOOTH and HARD surface. That is exactly what I have to do with my XF and F nib pens. There are papers that I cannot stand to write on with my F nib pens, they feel too scratchy.

 

Next is what is the condition of the nib in YOUR pen? If it is worn, your grip angle is unlikely to be exactly the same as the prior owner. Thus you will not be writing in the flat spot, and some of the scratchiness could be from the edges of the flat spot. Solution is to reprofile the tip to eliminate or minimize the flat spot or have the nib replaced.

 

If the pen writes dry, it will be scratchy. The ink provides the lubrication for the tip to slide on the paper.

Little ink = little lubrication = scratchy feel.

I use Waterman ink in my dry pens, to get the ink to flow

I use Cross/Pelikan ink in my wet pens, to slow down the flow of ink

 

Sometimes an ink change will make a difference in the feel of a pen. I've had scratchy pens loose their scratchy feel after I switched from Waterman to Cross/Pelikan ink.

 

Finally we come to the writer...YOU.

You need to have a "light touch" especially if you are writing with a XF or F nib pen.

The more pressure you put on the nib, the more it will feedback the surface texture of the paper.

 

Lots of things to consider.

Edited November 2, 2013 by ac12

[Florida Blue]

The tines might be pressed too closely together.

 

The plastic hood can shrink slightly overtime squeezing the tines together and causing it to write to dry.

 

They could also be out of alignment as others have suggested or they may even have bits of micro-corrosion on the tipping material. These problems are not uncommon in a vintage pen that has been out of service for years as farmersmums stated.

 

Removing the hood is not too difficult if you are careful and patient. The hood is screwed on and secured with shellac. You can use a hair dryer or a heart gun from a craft store to lightly heat the hood to soften up the shellac and screw it off. Try searching in the repairs forum for more detailed instructions (such as the approximate temp. the shellac softens at).

 

i don't think the ink is the problem. Waterman's Florida Blue is practically the gold standard in FP ink.

Edited November 1, 2013 by Florida Blue

[casualmerlinconstant]

When you say "gritty" what exactly do you mean?

Is it a scratchy feel in ALL directions or just one; Left to Right, Right to Left, Top to Bottom, Bottom to Top ????

A scratchy feel in a L->R, or L<-R direction is an indication that the tips if the nib are out of alignment.

 

The problem with the P51 is that the nib is inside a hood that you CANNOT take off w/o knowledge and skill.

Thus you cannot access the nib like you can with an exposed nib. And there is very little that you can do regarding nib manipulation.

Having said that, you NEED a 10x loupe (or higher magnification) to see the tip of the nib, and to see if they are in alignment or not.

 

What size is your nib XtraFine, Fine, Medium, Broad ?

If it is XF or F, there is not much that you can do to the pen. I think the tipping technology of 60+ years ago is not as advanced as it is today. The smaller tips are more sensitive to the surface texture of the paper. The easiest option is to switch to a paper with a SMOOTH and HARD surface. That is exactly what I have to do with my XF and F nib pens. There are papers that I cannot stand to write on with my F nib pens, they feel too scratchy.

 

Next is what is the condition of the nib in YOUR pen? If it is worn, your grip angle is unlikely to be exactly the same as the prior owner. Thus you will not be writing in the flat spot, and some of the scratchiness could be from the edges of the flat spot. Solution is to reprofile the tip to eliminate or minimize the flat spot or have the nib replaced.

 

If the pen writes dry, it will be scratchy. The ink provides the lubrication for the tip to slide on the paper.

Little ink = little lubrication = scratchy feel.

I use Waterman ink in my dry pens, to get the ink to flow

I use Cross/Pelikan ink in my wet pens, to slow down the flow of ink

 

Sometimes an ink change will make a difference in the feel of a pen. I've had scratchy pens loose their scratchy feel after I switched from Waterman to Cross/Pelikan ink.

 

Finally we come to the writer...YOU.

You need to have a "light touch" especially if you are writing with a XF or F nib pen.

The more pressure you put on the nib, the more it will feedback the surface texture of the paper.

 

Lots of things to consider.

hi! Thanks for the detailed reply. When I say gritty I mean it constantly feels like there are tiny particulateslaparticulates of sand/grit under the nib. I think this occurs in all directions. The nib are f and xf which I understand is naturally more scratchy, and the tipping looks more worn on the vacumatic than on the aero. Maybe its the tipping. Guess I'll write with it more to see if it smooths out a bit before I resort to calling the professionals haha.

The tines might be pressed too closely together.

 

The plastic hood can shrink slightly overtime squeezing the tines together and causing it to write to dry.

 

They could also be out of alignment as others have suggested or they may even have bits of micro-corrosion on the tipping material. These problems are not uncommon in a vintage pen that has been out of service for years as farmersmums stated.

 

Removing the hood is not too difficult if you are careful and patient. The hood is screwed on and secured with shellac. You can use a hair dryer or a heart gun from a craft store to lightly heat the hood to soften up the shellac and screw it off. Try searching in the repairs forum for more detailed instructions (such as the approximate temp. the shellac softens at).

 

i don't think the ink is the problem. Waterman's Florida Blue is practically the gold standard in FP ink.

if there were bits of micro corrosion should I just sand it off?..better go find a loupe lol.

[Florida Blue]

if there were bits of micro corrosion should I just sand it off?..better go find a loupe lol.

A jewelers loop would probably help to see if the tines are out of alignment or if there is any micro-corrosion.

 

There are smoothing kits you can buy. I think Goulet Pens (no affiliation) sells one or you can send it off to a nibmeister to be smoothed. I'm not sure I would try smoothing it yourself until you have researched it further as you don't want to damage the nib. I've read about different FPN members using a fine micro mesh to smooth a nib.

[pajaro]

I am wondering what you are expecting from these nibs. Back in the day of the 51 nibs weren't like current day Pelikans. Nibs back then had a small amount of tooth often. If you think Parker 51s are gritty, try some Esterbrooks or some of the other brands pens in the nib size you are using.

 

I have some glassy smooth 51s, mainly English. I think that you don't want to know what I think.

[casualmerlinconstant]

Lol...what do you think? That may be true. I have just switched to these from a modern lamy. Its not unpleasant to use but I've seen terms such as "as if writing on glass" and "writes like a dream" thrown around a lot for these pens, unless that's a relative term? Haha

[ac12]

IMHO you will NOT get the XF nib to be smooth, and maybe not the F nib as well.

I have two 51s with a F nibs that are scratchy unless I use SMOOTH HARD paper.

 

The tip material on the nib is HARD to resist wear.

You will NOT be able to smoothen it by writing.

Do NOT use sandpaper. If you do you WILL ruin the nib.

There are fine abrasives that are used for nib smoothening.

WARNING: Messing with the nib could be dangerous, as you are removing material. If you make a mistake, you cannot put back what you remove. Take away too much from the wrong place, and you ruined the nib.

 

Get a loupe and look at the tip of the nib of your 51, then look at the tip of a modern pen.

The difference is how the tip looks and is made.

Some of the modern pens have nice smooth polished spheres for tips, including the F and XF nibs. These are smooth writers.

Both of the F nibs on my 51s looks like a small slab of material that was ground to the correct nib width. The tip is NOT round.

The best I could do on my 51 is to round off the sharp corners and edges with micromesh, to reduces some of the scratchiness. Anything further will require the services of a GOOD nib-meister to reprofile and polish the tip.

 

Following up on what pajaro said. Some of the old XF and F tips were probably NOT meant for general writing, but instead for bookkeeping. The old accounting ledger paper was HARD and SMOOTH. So a tip that was sharp could still move over the paper fine. Put that same tip on 'standard' paper and ugh.

Example, I have my mothers Eversharp fountain pen with a XF or accountants nib, that she used as an accountant. I could NOT write with than pen on standard paper. The nib would snag the paper constantly. It wasn't until I learned about the accountants nib that I understood the problem. It is meant to be used on HARD SMOOTH ledger paper, and NOT writing paper. I would venture to say that the Parker XF nibs were similarly meant to be used on HARD SMOOTH paper.

 

Personally, for your XF and F nib 51s, I recommend that you change paper, to one with a SMOOTH finish, even better if it is also a HARD finish. A good example of this is HP 32# Premium Paper (Office Depot, Staples, etc), or Clairefontaine paper (Goulet Pens).

[ac12]

Lol...what do you think? That may be true. I have just switched to these from a modern lamy. Its not unpleasant to use but I've seen terms such as "as if writing on glass" and "writes like a dream" thrown around a lot for these pens, unless that's a relative term? Haha

 

Smoothness depends on several factors: the pen, the ink, the paper and the writer.

 

The pen:

I have 2 different 51s, one with a F nib and the other with a M nib.

The F nib is fussy about the paper it writes on. If the paper is not smooth, it will feel scratchy.

The M nib is not fussy about the paper. The larger tip of the M nib rides over the surface roughness that snags and drags at the F tip.

 

The pen and the ink:

Similarly with a nice flow of ink it is a very nice writer.

The ink provides lubrication for the tip as it glides over the paper. The more lubrication you have the better it glides, less lubrication and friction increases.

The ink

Certain inks have better lubrication additives, and help the pen write smoother.

I have instances where just switching ink has smoothened out the scratchiness of a pen.

But is isn't always so clear, because I have switched in both directions (from Waterman to Cross, and from Cross to Waterman) and depending on the individual pen, it smoothened out.

The paper:

Put my 51 with F nib on hard smooth paper and it is like skating on ice, virtually no drag.

The hard smooth paper reduced drag/friction against the tip of the pen.

Think of it like dragging or pushing a box over a polished concrete floor vs a rough asphalt road. The hard smooth paper is the polished concrete floor, the cheap multipurpose printer paper is the asphalt road.

The writer:

If you push down on a F or XF tip pen, you could dig into the surface of the paper.

When you do that you increase friction, because of the digging of the paper.

What is needed is a "light" touch. And that is easier said than done.

If you use a XF nib that does not have a spherical tip, you really need to learn to use a light touch.

And this is not only for the Parkers, I have to use a "light" touch with my Esterbrook with XF nib, or it will be real scratchy.

[casualmerlinconstant]

Wow thanks for the in depth information! I think you are right about the nib sizes. I swapped to some rhodia and it did help a lot. (The paper I used before work well with my modern pens so I guess I didnt think to compare) Ironically the xf seems less picky than the f, pity, I got the fine to use as a workhorse. I did bend the f's tines a bit more and its a lot more wet now

[casualmerlinconstant]

I think I'll lay off the grinding for now (I'm far too cowardly to try lol) and see how things go

[ac12]

I think I'll lay off the grinding for now (I'm far too cowardly to try lol) and see how things go

 

Not a bad thing.

 

It took me a LONG time before I would use the micromesh. Because everthing I did up to that was reversable. Removing material is NOT reversable. A good advice is to get a CHEAP pen to practice smoothening with micromesh BEFORE you try it on your good pens. IOW, practice on something CHEAP, so if it screws up, so what, throw it away and get another CHEAP pen to practice on. Better than messing up a P51 nib where you have to pay someone to replace the nib for you + cost of a new nib.

[rochester21]

Gritty nibs are usually worn nibs. I have a duofold and vacumatic in this state. Normally, a parker 51 nib shouldn`t be glass smooth, but not gritty either.

 

If the tines are just misaligned, they can be fixed. Micro mesh can help, but can also further damage the nib if you are new to this.

Edited November 2, 2013 by rochester21

[Ron Z]

 

 

Gritty nibs are usually worn nibs.

 

While this may be true in some cases, I think that the generalization is rather broad. There are a lot of factors that can make a nib toothy, and the nib can be quite new and still be unpleasant to write with. Misaligned tines, improperly shaped tips, cracks or chips in the tipping material, are some other contributing factors. The cautions about trying to smooth a nib are well justified. It's easy to permanently screw up a nib by using honing stones and sand paper. Anyone who works on nibs has seen it. If you value the pen, send it to someone who knows what they're doing to have it properly smoothed and adjusted. There are a number of us who would be happy to do it for you.

[pajaro]

Yes, let someone who knows what they are doing do it for you. Then you will know from their result how the pen should be.

 

If you want to do-it-yourself smoothing, start with pens where the nibs are cheaper and more easily replaced. You might buy an old Esterbrook in unknown condition from somebody who only incidentally sells pens. You can resac it and try the nib smoothing for maybe $20 plus smoothing stuff.

 

A new 51 nib will often run you $40, and it will be a greater challenge to heat off the hood, install the new nib on the feed and align the assembly so the nib and hood point are lined up. That's after you might have ruined the original nib by over-smoothing. Some of us have been through this drill. I guess you can repeat other's mistakes if you like.

 

I never really wanted to smooth a 51, because I appreciate a nib with some tooth or resistance to help me control my writing. I have bought 51s though that came apart because someone else had them apart. So, I had to go through the drill of lining everything up and reassembly. It was a bit tedious at first. Later, when I bought 51s and found someone had smoothed or clipped the tipping off (homemade stub the easy way), I was better prepared to buy a new nib and install it. It's easier to learn smoothing by doing it where you can unscrew the nib to replace it, and where the nib is less costly to replace if you goof it up. Esterbrooks are more versatile in this regard, but they deserve some respect for this too.

 

If you want glassy smoothness, it takes some experience with smoothing to achieve that. It also takes a special finesse, and some people are better at it than others. The best of them are offering their services to others.

[casualmerlinconstant]

I found a magnifying glass and had a look at the fine nib, the right tine is significantly more worn down than the left one. And when I rotate the pen to about 10 degrees from the vertical it becomes far more wet. So new theory is that either a lefty owned the pen for decades or its some kind of oblique cut :s. Lol think I'll let my wallet recover for a while and then find a professional

 

Edit: anyone know any nibmeisters in Australia? Or are most of them in UK/US?

Edited November 3, 2013 by superglueshoe