Plastics Degradation In Fountain Pens?

[loudkenny]

Hello all,

 

I have a friend who works in a plastics lab, and his hobby is collecting antique pinball machines.

 

He says that one of the worst parts of his hobby is restoring games with melted or decomposed plastic or rubber parts from aging, and he is studying ways of either totally stopping or retarding the decomposition process as much as possible.

 

We were wondering if any of you have or have owned pens that have plastic or rubber failures, like melted (not just dried out) rubber sacs or crumbling plastics.

 

Here are some photos of the kinds of things he is looking for. The top two photos are of a pinball game's rubber ring and bumper. The rubber ring has dried and cracked, but the rubber's contact with the plastic has degraded the blue plastic bumper.

 

The third photo is of a pinball game's pin bumper. You can see where the bumper pin is in original condition below where the rubber ring was mounted, but cracked and discolored on and above where the rubber ring used to be.

 

I saved the worst for last...

 

This is from a 1940 pinball game called Roxy.

 

The rubber ring on the small yellow center bumper for some reason melted, ran down onto the playfield, and rehardened, destroying the paint with it. What looks like fake vomit on the playfield is the remains of the rubber ring. The last photo is of another example of the game, showing what the same area of this game would have looked like if the ring had not melted.

 

Thank you,

ken

Edited September 29, 2013 by loudkenny

[FarmBoy]

The play field is salvageable. The plastics used in pens are different than those used in early pins.

 

Have your friend give me a shout.

 

Todd (E&E Music)

[ac12]

I have a Parker 51 Mark 3, where the hood had shrunk down and I had to cut it off with a saw to remove it.

I might still have the remnants of the hood on my workbench.

[Sasha Royale]

The Parker 51 was innovative and top quality. It was the choice of Eisenhower, DeGaul, and my Dad. It was a first-tier pen that bore a first-tier price. The Parker 21 was "budget" version, with steel nib, plain chrome cap, no arrow clip, AND thin ( perhaps

inferior plastic).

 

I have four very pretty Parker 21 fountain pens. All four "ooze" ink from microscopic cracks in the section. None of my six Parker 51's does this.

[pajaro]

The Parker 51 was innovative and top quality. It was the choice of Eisenhower, DeGaul, and my Dad. It was a first-tier pen that bore a first-tier price. The Parker 21 was "budget" version, with steel nib, plain chrome cap, no arrow clip, AND thin ( perhaps

inferior plastic).

 

I have four very pretty Parker 21 fountain pens. All four "ooze" ink from microscopic cracks in the section. None of my six Parker 51's does this.

 

I have never heard of this before, but I only have a few of these. After reading this, though, I will watch the one 21 I have and the Super 21s more carefully. If they start leaking, they become uninked dustables. I guess as these pens age there will be the new and unexpected.

[Tdot]

I have come across a few "banana" pens (thanks a lot eBay). Cheaper Sheaffer look-a-likes.

[kkshadow]

Nothing like this. Early Touchdown O-rings turn into a concrete-like material. Some less expensive pens the plastic shrinks to the point that the ring holding the fill level is plainly visible via the bulge in the pen, but the plastic still has integrity.

[loudkenny]

The play field is salvageable. The plastics used in pens are different than those used in early pins.

The Roxy playfield photo was an archived example of what terminal plastic decomposition can look like. The other photos are of actual 1940's plastic parts.

 

My buddy says that since there wasn't too many different types of inexpensive colorful thermoplastics before WWII, so consumer goods like pens and pinballs shared many of the same plastics - especially on lower tier pens. Parker used Lexan for 51's, but not too many other makers of consumer grade objects used it because of the cost. Pinball machines generally also used inexpensive plastics, because they were usually only designed to last a couple of years before scrapping.

 

He is looking for actual examples and possible causes of decomposition, like cleanliness of parts or storage conditions. Are pens that have been stored 'dirty' (for many years full of ink) more prone to plastic degradation than pens stored empty? Do pens known to have been stored in hot attics or damp basements fail sooner than other pens stored in other conditions? What actual damage symptoms do pens show when they start to degrade, like cracks in the plastic, discoloring, or random gooey/sticky spots? What makes rubber parts like pinball rings or ink sacs go 'gooey' at failure instead of a more normal 'drying out' type of failure?

 

He says even guitars and other musical instruments stored in cases often show the same issues with this as pens or pinballs do. For example, many older Gibson electric guitars have cast plastic tuning key knobs that crumble and decay even if the instrument is kept in its case. If one knob starts to degrade, all the other keys and other plastic parts are at risk due to fumes given off from the bad part. Pinballs seemingly decay this way too - if one rubber ring or plastic part in the game starts to decay, all the other plastic parts near it will soon decay too if not caught in time. Not only does this quickly affect all the plastic parts, but any plated metal parts stored with the decaying plastics start corroding too. Look at the screw head in the middle of the blue plastic pinball bumper in the top photo for an example of this.

 

ken

Edited September 30, 2013 by loudkenny

[Remy]

@loudkenny,

 

Here's a good read you, complete with electron microscope "photography"

 

http://www.academia.edu/347638/Degradation_of_Lumarith_Cellulose_Acetate_Examination_and_Chemical_Analysis_of_a_Salesmans_Sample_Kit

 

Sounds like the decomposing rubber is lacking some stabilizers. I personally don't know what causes rubber to "melt", though i have seen it happen on a number of occasions, but sounds like whatever used to be contained in the rubber, starts to outgas and causes cellulosic resins to break down, which in turn release either nitric acid or acetic (vinegar), depending on type, and that's what oxidizes metal. It's fairly common to see this happen in knife collections that are not given adequate ventilation, and sometimes you can't tell which knife is the problem, because acids from a decomposing handle on a stainless blade will rust neighboring carbon steel blades first.

 

So adequate ventilation and avoiding heat/light will keep cellulosic resins healthy longer while oils, waxes, sealants and glass display cases that hinder "breathing" will speed up decay. It'd be interesting to see if the melted rubber has actual chemical triggers or simply acts as an impermeable film that causes a spot to decay and the decay ripples through the whole plastic part (chain reaction due to released acids?). The screws probably corrode last.

 

And here's a thread on ink sack decomposition that might be relevant if you read through to the part that mentions stabilizers and inks with red dyes

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/242452-what-liquefied-this-sac

[FarmBoy]

Many pens of the early era were celluloid or hard rubber and often of very high grade and have held up well. The bumper body you show is likely full of fillers and likely a molded thermal set resin.

 

Next time I'm back at the homestead I'll look and see if there are any dead play field plastics sitting around.

 

Common degredation pathways are known. Start by looking at oxidation. Then UV damage. Plasticizer loss is fun. Monomer release. For celluloid we can have ejection of acetic or nitric acid, PVC likes to spit out HCl.

 

Start by identifying the actual material used to make the parts. Decomposition pathways can then be rationally proposed.

 

You may also head to a junk yard, 60's cars have all sorts of deteriorating plastic components. Look for an early Valiant, armrests, the dash pad, the defroster vents, the heater box, tail lights...and if the car is a wagon and has decent spears on the rear quarters I could use them.

Edited September 30, 2013 by FarmBoy

[ashbridg]

He says even guitars and other musical instruments stored in cases often show the same issues with this as pens or pinballs do. For example, many older Gibson electric guitars have cast plastic tuning key knobs that crumble and decay even if the instrument is kept in its case.

Many war-era guitars have this problem, too, including Gibsons. Instrument companies in the 1930's started using celluloid for tuning-gear buttons instead of ivory. Celluloid looks just as good and feels warm to the touch. I bought a 1943 Southern Jumbo that someone had kept in the case for many years. The tuner buttons were decayed, and the binding, also celluloid, was discolored and shrunken. The damage from outgassing had even spread to the spruce top. Other guitars from the same era that were not stored in their cases have less damage or no damage. Guitars, like pens and knives, need to breathe and should not be kept in airtight containers.

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

This happens, even in modern pens. Some things like the Hundred Year pens often got some crazing in the barrel ends. Other plastics like the one they used for the Parker Reflex were fine initially then as time went on, they became more brittle and began to crack more easily. Some of them even in the store were fine one week then became cracked the next. I had to stop using mine when one day the plastic cracked. (When I got up this morning, I reminisced a little about that pen. It was my first good pen). Some plastics used for Waterman pens did the same thing. I have a Waterman Ici et Là that I love, but I can't use it anymore since the grip section is cracked at all the points where it got stressed. Recently, I had my grip section replaced three times already, and this happened to the grip section each time it was replaced. Apparently the plastic just lost its strength after some time. Although I don't always want to admit it, this same failure seems to be happening to the Rotring Core and Primus, although they have time because the plastic is a lot thicker, so splitting is much less likely. You can see very faint stress marks though where the feed snaps into the pen now. I'm more worried about this in a way since the grip isn't like the Ici et Là which has a large degree of rotational symmetry and can be just turned from bar stock with precise tools and machining techniques. The grip of the Rotring Core and Primus are a complex shape that was produced by injection molding. I had the same problem with the Sheaffer Intrigue. I had a really pretty one once, but the barrel lip split suddenly one day. Sheaffer repaired it, then I sold it right after. I still miss it, but what can you do?

 

I've seen a lot of deteriorated rubber sacs too in both modern pens, and vintage pens. One of the Aurora Trik-Trak converters I bought had a deteriorated rubber sac when I took it out of the package. Most of the old ones use PVC sacs. The new ones seem to come with the rubber ones. It gets sticky and sticks together. Sometimes it gets sticky then rehardens too. This is so hard to clean out of the pen. It requires a lot of gentle scraping.

 

Other plastics like the one they used for the Sheaffer cartridge pen seem fine. I have a green see-through one with the bullet-shaped barrel and cap, steel nib, and ebonite feed, and it's doing pretty well. I recently resacced the converter in the pen, and it's been working well.

 

Some rubber sacs don't deteriorate as quickly when they are not used if they are clean and dry. Most of the ones I've see that deteriorated had not been fully cleaned out before they failed.

 

About the O-rings, many Japanese pens used some kind of synthetic rubber, and I haven't seen the rubber they used fail yet. As far as I know, none of my pens have any soft, natural latex rubber parts. I do have hard rubber pens, celluloid pens, and pens with synthetic rubber parts and pens with PVC sacs.

 

Dillon

[Brian-McQueen]

Here is an example of a Flat Top Sheaffer whose previous owner told me it was beautiful before he stored it in the attic for 5 years or so.

 

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7352/10048569075_3cb1530d85_c.jpg

[loudkenny]

 

Here's a good read you, complete with electron microscope "photography"

And here's a thread on ink sack decomposition that might be relevant if you read through to the part that mentions stabilizers and inks with red dyes

Remy, I gave my buddy your links, and he said Thank you. I read them and they cleared up some of the questions I had.

 

You may also head to a junk yard, 60's cars have all sorts of deteriorating plastic components. Look for an early Valiant, armrests, the dash pad, the defroster vents, the heater box, tail lights...and if the car is a wagon and has decent spears on the rear quarters I could use them.

I was at the Jefferson County Auto Show in WI last weekend looking for ugly plastic parts and also body parts for my 1964 Olds Cutlass too... if I knew I would have looked.

 

Many war-era guitars have this problem, too, including Gibsons. Instrument companies in the 1930's started using celluloid for tuning-gear buttons instead of ivory.

I like guitars too. Vintage guitars are going to be very hard hit by this issue in the future, because original guitars are worth so much.

 

I've seen a lot of deteriorated rubber sacs too in both modern pens, and vintage pens. One of the Aurora Trik-Trak converters I bought had a deteriorated rubber sac when I took it out of the package. Most of the old ones use PVC sacs. The new ones seem to come with the rubber ones. It gets sticky and sticks together. Sometimes it gets sticky then rehardens too.

Some rubber sacs don't deteriorate as quickly when they are not used if they are clean and dry. Most of the ones I've see that deteriorated had not been fully cleaned out before they failed.

Here is an example of a Flat Top Sheaffer whose previous owner told me it was beautiful before he stored it in the attic for 5 years or so.

 

This sounds a lot like the rubber ring in the Roxy pinball photos. I wonder if 'dirt' speeds up the decomposition? I'll have to ask.

 

My buddy says that for some reason if you have many plastic parts in a small area (such as on a pinball playfield or parts on a guitar), many times only one of the parts will start decaying first, and the other ones soon 'catch' the decay if it's not caught soon... almost like it was contagious or something. I wonder why?

 

ken

[Remy]

Remy, I gave my buddy your links, and he said Thank you. I read them and they cleared up some of the questions I had.

 

[...]

 

This sounds a lot like the rubber ring in the Roxy pinball photos. I wonder if 'dirt' speeds up the decomposition? I'll have to ask.

 

My buddy says that for some reason if you have many plastic parts in a small area (such as on a pinball playfield or parts on a guitar), many times only one of the parts will start decaying first, and the other ones soon 'catch' the decay if it's not caught soon... almost like it was contagious or something. I wonder why?

 

ken

 

 

...

 

Surface contamination definitely causes rubber to fail. It could have been many things, like food residue on the repairman's fingers, or a lubricant, or any other technical fluids. Left alone for decades, rubber will dry to a crisp, but non oil-resistant rubber blends will turn slightly sticky a month after oil exposure.

 

...

 

It is "contagious", within a part and among pieces, due to a chain reaction going on. If a part starts to decay, there's no saving it, though it can be monitored and kept in a cool, dark, drafty place.

 

The domino effect is due to the acids not leaving the resin in time, but recirculating inside the guitar case or pinball playfield and attacking celluloid again, freeing more acids. It seems to me that initial decay depends on resin composition (additives, ingredient ratio) and then on "smothering" of the part... the neighboring pieces just get overwhelmed by acid

[loudkenny]

I just wanted to say Thank You all for the advice.

 

Not only have you provided some information I could show my buddy, you also helped me to better understand what he is doing.

 

ken

 

[Ondina]

Hi,

 

This happens, even in modern pens. Some things like the Hundred Year pens often got some crazing in the barrel ends. Other plastics like the one they used for the Parker Reflex were fine initially then as time went on, they became more brittle and began to crack more easily. Some of them even in the store were fine one week then became cracked the next. I had to stop using mine when one day the plastic cracked. (When I got up this morning, I reminisced a little about that pen. It was my first good pen). Some plastics used for Waterman pens did the same thing. I have a Waterman Ici et Là that I love, but I can't use it anymore since the grip section is cracked at all the points where it got stressed. Recently, I had my grip section replaced three times already, and this happened to the grip section each time it was replaced. Apparently the plastic just lost its strength after some time.

Dillon

 

 

I think I do have an Içi et la complete section with nib somewhere that I'll be pleaed to mail you so that pen you like can be used once more. I'll contact you backchannel.

[Sholom]

Most plastics that are "plasticized" (i.e. have additives to make them less brittle) are not stable over long periods of time. This includes celluloid, which can become brittle if the plasticizer was camphor as it often was. The camphor can very slowly evaporate over time, causing brittleness, distortion, and crystallization. Cellulose acetate, a common later replacement for celluloid, can with heat and humidity undergo hydrolysis, causing it to give off corrosive acetic acid fumes; celluloid can do the same thing producing nitric acid (!). The Parker 51 I believe was Lucite rather than Lexan (the Lamy 2000 is Lexan or equivalent). Lucite is more stable than the cellulose derivatives but over very long periods of time (many decades probably) it will tend to self-crosslink (probably via air oxidation), which will increase its brittleness. Polycarbonate (Lexan, etc.) can also undergo slow hydrolysis with heat and humidity; this is very slow (decades or centuries?) but ultimately will cause mechanical failure. There are many complexities to plastics formulation and manufacture that can affect the stability of a particular grade or even batch of resin. Plastics preservation is actually a hot topic in the art world because of the introduction of acrylic paints and plastic materials in sculptures. Anyone who is interested in this should take a look at what art conservators are researching about plastics decay and stabilization.

[Says]

Hi,

 

Can I ask, on a more positive note, what would be the best conditions to store Celluloid then?

airy cool dark places?

[Wahl]

Hi,

 

Can I ask, on a more positive note, what would be the best conditions to store Celluloid then?

airy cool dark places?

 

Yes !