English Parker "51" Information

[honza]

I recently bought my second English Parker "51" and, while trying to date the pen, I realized that there is a distinct lack of information on English made P51s. While dating my first English P51 was a child's play (Mk. I aerometric, hole at the end of the barrel, lustraloy cap, plastic-end "4 times" filler, nib dated 1953), my new acquisition made my head spin. (A photo from the EBay auction is attached.)

Here is the description (I use Mk. I for the first aerometric model):

• Mk. I barrel, hole at the end
• Mk. III thin ring between section and barrel
• Mk. III lustraloy cap (finger clutch, 61-style arrow clip), early model (small grey pearl jewel, clip part of the jewel ring)
• later "4 times" filler (closed metal end)

So I did my research and realized, that this combination is reasonably common with English made Parkers and therefore my pen is likely not a frankenpen. Is there any resource which deals specifically with "Made in England" P51s and allows me to more precisely date the pen?

 

[Florida Blue]

Fellow FPN member Paul80 posted a photo of a similar English-made P51 made of parts in different styles. They seem to pop up occasionally so I agree that they were not frankenpens.

 

I wish there was more info on English P51s as well. I know the American-made versions were produced until 1972, but the P51 was produced until at least 1975 in the UK (according to Andreas Lambrou) and I've read possibly until the early 1980s.

 

From Andreas Lambrou's "Fountain Pens: USA and UK:"

He writes that the English MKI was discontinued in 1972, but they released a MKII in 1969 with a cap "similar to that of the model 61, the barrel end having a conical shape and the metal band between shell and barrel being thinner... barrel thread was similar to the Mark I."

 

"Some time later the 'Mark III' was introduced to continue servicing the 51s for a further ten years. With this model the cap screw was metal; while the barrel was of the same shape as the Mark II, the thread was wider."

 

I think you might have a Mark II or Mark III British P51 from the 1970s or maybe even 80s. I hope this helps.

[honza]

From Andreas Lambrou's "Fountain Pens: USA and UK:"

He writes that the English MKI was discontinued in 1972, but they released a MKII in 1969 with a cap "similar to that of the model 61, the barrel end having a conical shape and the metal band between shell and barrel being thinner... barrel thread was similar to the Mark I."

 

"Some time later the 'Mark III' was introduced to continue servicing the 51s for a further ten years. With this model the cap screw was metal; while the barrel was of the same shape as the Mark II, the thread was wider."

 

I think you might have a Mark II or Mark III British P51 from the 1970s or maybe even 80s. I hope this helps.

 

Thanks for taking time to write this. However, according to this information I have a transitional model - English Mk. I body, but English Mk. II cap and barrel ring. (Since the barrel does not have a conical end, and there is still pearl jewel, not a metal one, on the cap.) If the dates given in the book are correct, this would put the pen between 1969 and 1972, likely closer to 1969.

 

Does anybody have more information about English Parkers (especially "51"), than what's in the Lambrou's book cited above? (BTW the pen has extremely fine nib - possibly XFine or Accountant )

Edited September 24, 2013 by honza

[richardandtracy]

I suspect that for more detail you'd have to go through the Newhaven Archive.

Maybe Tony Fischer has had a chance...?

 

I must admit that just from the feel of the pens (and I have a similar one) I'd agree with your provisional dating.

I think it should also be possible to date the pens by the shape of the tip of the hood and the side profile. There seem to be some shapes that are like yours, some almost identical to the P61 and some that seem to be a blend of the two shapes. However I have never seen this feature even considered for dating - I'm sure it relates to the use of different tools and could give a 'Not before... and not after...' date range even though it wouldn't pin things down any more than that.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

[soapytwist]

A cautionary tale and confession:

 

When I first began collecting FPs back in the mid-eighties (I was a teenager and was interested only in using rather than value), 51s were EVERYWHERE if you went looking for them. In those days antique and junk shops were the only places you could find such things (no charity shops, boot sales, or eBay), but usually there would be a pot near the counter of pens emptied out of desks and there would always be at least a 51 or a 17.

 

In those days I had maybe 20-30 51s in varying conditions* (I had no idea about repair or the historical accuracy of parts), and so I used to pair up good caps with good bodies, and kept the rest, just in case. When eBay came along in the late nineties, I sold most of what I had (both complete and parts pens) and now only have 5 or so.

 

I can imagine:

 

1. My pens are out there, possibly with the wrong caps on them - sorry!

2. I can't have been the only person swapping parts - imagine the clip breaks on your favourite pen and you see another in a junk shop. Yours only had a steel cap, but this one is a posh gold plated one...

 

*Full disclosure - I also had an antique-dealing father who let me have the contents of desks that he'd bought as part of house clearances.

[Florida Blue]

Perhaps the pen is a frankenpen of sorts. Lambrou wrote that the barrel thread of English MKII, introduced in 1969, was similar to the MKI. So maybe someone screwed on a MKI barrel to a MKII pen.

 

Other than Lambrou, the only other book I can think of is the "Parker 51" book by David and Mark Shepherd, which might be worth seeking out.

[dex]

Hi

 

I've got one of these pens also.

 

Not sure if it's been mentioned or noticed, but the barrel is considerably shorter than a Mk.1 aerometric barrel and it won't fit over a plastic-end filler.

 

I've had a few of these and they've all been the same, so would not appear to be a frankenpen.

 

Regards

 

Tim

[Paul80]

Yep I noticed that on my thread mentioned above.

 

I had a mk2 which is often referred to as the mk Aerometric, for some reason people often forget the Vacumatic version was the real mk1.

 

But I digress, the mk2 barrel would fit my version of the above pen but the barrel from the above pen was too short to fit my mk2.

 

I know the thinner clutch ring is more of a mk3 feature but the mk3 has a much flatter end to the barrel and the mk2 had the domed barrel end as in the pictures above.

 

I was wondering if Parker did some sort of transitional model between the Mk2b and the Mk3, maybe a mk2c or something.

 

Wish there was as much info about the English 51's as there is about the American ones.

 

Paul

[honza]

Paul80: I did not want to go into the "Mk. I" debate, and therefore stated explicitly what I consider to be the Mk. I AFAIK, this numbering was used in the Shepherd book, and therefore it's considered authoritative by many people. P51 Vacumatic is then a different pen

 

dex: thanks for pointing out the barrel length difference. I can confirm this is indeed the case, having just compared it to my English Mk. I aerometric (and also U.S. made P51 Special). Barrel thread is the same.

 

Wish there was as much info about the English 51's as there is about the American ones.

 

Yes, that's exactly my gripe Little to no information on the English made Parker pens, and, as one can see, there are indeed significant differences.

[Flounder]

2. I can't have been the only person swapping parts - imagine the clip breaks on your favourite pen and you see another in a junk shop. Yours only had a steel cap, but this one is a posh gold plated one...

 

 

All part of the rich tapestry. At some stage in its life, my English vac 51 has had a blue diamond clip put on it. Fine by me!

[mitto]

Yep I noticed that on my thread mentioned above.

I had a mk2 which is often referred to as the mk Aerometric, for some reason people often forget the Vacumatic version was the real mk1.

But I digress, the mk2 barrel would fit my version of the above pen but the barrel from the above pen was too short to fit my mk2.

I know the thinner clutch ring is more of a mk3 feature but the mk3 has a much flatter end to the barrel and the mk2 had the domed barrel end as in the pictures above.

I was wondering if Parker did some sort of transitional model between the Mk2b and the Mk3, maybe a mk2c or something.

Wish there was as much info about the English 51's as there is about the American ones.

Paul

I think I too have an English pen that could also be treated as transitional between the English (aero) mk1 and mk2. My pen is the same as OP's except that the clip on my pen is the type of short aero clip found on the aero mki pens (not the longer P61 style/shape). Yet the shape of the cap is the same as that of OP's pen (that is the P61 cap shape). The cap top is the same as OP's pen. Narrow from above with a smaller grey jewel.

This make me believe there might be earo mk2 transitional pens in more than one configuration. Here is my pen (post#8):

 

 

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/265962-p-51-mk-ii/