Poor Quality Of Expensive Pens

[PDW]

I wonder how much of this is down to the dealer. Some of them say they will test each pen before it goes out, and that should in theory identify most of the problems people have mentioned above. Others might just be box-shiters with pretty shops or websites.

 

Has anyone had a problem from a dealer who claims to test before despatch?

Edited September 5, 2013 by PDW

[smiorgan]

These manufacturers are also bolstered by brand apologists. Look at Apple's products -- some people think they can do no wrong and will blame the shortcomings of a £1500 laptop on the expectations of the end user. I say this as a staunch Apple supporter -- some of their hardware and software is no good.

 

The companies treat their customers like subscribers, i.e. you're not buying the hardware, you're buying "the experience" and that experience includes a few weeks of shuffling a product that should have "just worked" back and forth until you get the product you paid for. Some people even believe part of "the experience" should be warranty-voiding end-user DIY.

 

I wouldn't mind this ethos if it were truly treating hardware as transient, like mobile phone contracts. Even so, that doesn't fly with fountain pens for obvious reasons.

[hari317]

Onoto is a brand that i want to try.

Onoto Magna Classic, BI nib. Flawless. Absolutely amazing in every way. This came as no surprise to me as John Sorowka smooth's every nib and Onoto go to enormous lengths to make everything else equally perfect.

[MBFan]

Sorry to hear you've had such a bad experience. I find it interesting to read through the comments, I've actually had not a single problem with any pen I've ever bought, including two Hero 616 jumbos. I'm not trying to gloat, but I wonder if I'm not as discerning or I lack the finesse to notice if a pen needs adjusting. Maybe all my pens are not writing properly and would make a few of you cringe Ignorance is bliss

 

YMMV...obviously drastically!

[corniche]

Others might just be box-shiters with pretty shops or websites.

 

Hello PDW,

 

I think you forgot an "f" in this line... or then again, perhaps you didn't...?

 

All the best,

 

Sean

[BrandonA]

perhaps just a streak of very bad luck?

 

Or user error.

 

I'd be interested to know how many working pens were bought and therefore what the percentage of problem pens was.

 

I can't imagine though that one person would buy so many duds. I wonder if user error somehow damaged the pens.

[Paddler]

 

There is a reason why people who are known for their nib work (Richard Binder and John Mottishaw) tune every nib that leaves their shop. There is a reason why I will tune every new pen I sell--even in a fledgeling pen shop.

 

It is an unfortunate side-effect of the popularity of these pens--high production numbers and spot-testing of 1-in-5 pens or 1-in-10 pens. That's not tuning; it's just testing to make sure it's adequate, not spectacular.

 

Really, the key is to find a shop with a good nib worker who will make sure your pen is great when you unbox it for the first time. Richard Binder and John Mottishaw are not the only ones any longer. Richard has trained me and Linda Kennedy of "Indy-Pen-Dance." Of course, you have Pendleton Brown who is very good at what he does. Mike Masuyama is another great nib worker (though I don't know that he sells new pens).

 

So, there are options. But, yes...it is annoying that a Montblanc or a Pelikan out of the box isn't expected to be perfect. Then again...every time I hit a pot-hole while driving I get frustrated that we can put a man on the moon, but can't make pavement that doesn't fall apart. Ponder that!

 

Blessings,

 

Tim

OK, Tim. What percentage of brand new pens do you have to adjust before you send them to customers?

[heymatthew]

Hi

 

I know we mainly only ever hear about the bad ones but the comment that the nib needs work out of the box is quite often written about new Pelikan pens, don't know why though, unless modern Pelikan owners are more discerning that there older customer base was.

 

Paul

 

I have purchased three Pelikans and I have hated three Pelikans. The first was a NOS M100 with a Medium nib. It just dumped an ungodly amount of ink when writing and felt more like writing with a fine-tipped garden hose than a pen. Not to mention it was far, far broader than my wife's broad-tipped Lamy Safaris.

 

I then bought a new M215 (what a pretty, pretty pen!) with an EF nib and it wrote far broader than the Safari nibs that my wife has (I don't own anything with a Medium nib so I have to compare to her Lamys, which means I get to use them from time to time for scientific testing purposes ).

 

Finally, I purchased an M200 EF from the buy and sell boards here a few weeks ago. It originally came from Richard Binder, but wasn't tuned by him. The writing experience with that pen made me think of a Sharpie and a Pelikan making a pen-baby. I think I've gotten finer lines with a paint roller. I sent it to Linda at Indy-Pen-Dance and am awaiting its return. She has been updating me on the process, though and we had a good laugh at the insane amount of tipping material on the pen. It was like the size of a golf ball.

 

So no... I don't think Pelikan users are more discerning or whatever. I think Pelikan is just mass-producing plastic pens and nibs as fast as they can with no regard to the end-user. It's cheaper for them to just make them and get them out into the marketplace and repair or replace the few that come in than it is to hire someone to hand-tune every pen. Take my first two experiences... Rather than returning the pens (the M100 wouldn't be able to be returned, but the 215 could have), I just sold them. The new owners seemed to like them and gave them good marks, but Pelikan didn't take a hit. Then this third one, rather than sending it back to Pelikan, I paid money out of pocket to have someone I trust make it right. So, that's three times now that I've saved Pelikan the trouble of repairing or replacing a pen that is unsatisfactory. Think about that times 50,000 pens. What percentage goes back?

 

Perhaps if we started making these pen manufacturers eat the pens that weren't absolutely 100% writing perfection, they'd shape up. But probably not. They'd just cut costs somewhere else to balance out the influx of crappy pens and use poorer quality manufacturing at the start to compensate for any lost revenue due to returns. And they'd sell the "returns" as "factory seconds" at 10% off and still make their 700% profit.

[LameJane]

I believe that the horrible inconsistency in production and quality control of fountain pens is the main reason why the world has (rightly so) moved on from them.

[NHsueh]

I think its an open secret that the fountain pens you buy today are very hit and miss. The other day, some people were complaining about Sailor fountain pens, and just in this thread, someone complained about a Pilot fountain pen, so even Japanese pens aren't immune to having problems.

 

In fact, I vastly prefer to buy fountain pens at shops where I can dip test them, so that I can find one that I like. The only time I might consider buying it without testing would be at a Montblanc boutique, but only because they have don't allow dip testing. However, there are so many Montblanc boutiques around that it isn't that difficult to get the nib exchanged within the 1st six weeks. Other brands I would definitely test them first.

[Wolverine1]

This is why, I have taken to buying used pens, from a few reputable vendors.

[heymatthew]

In fact, I vastly prefer to buy fountain pens at shops where I can dip test them...

 

What is this "Fountain Pen Shop" you speak of?

 

[NHsueh]

 

What is this "Fountain Pen Shop" you speak of?

 

 

Most big cities usually have a pen shop where you can test the pens before you buy them. They are more expensive than buying online, but they do provide a valuable service in that you can try before you buy.

[heymatthew]

 

Most big cities usually have a pen shop where you can test the pens before you buy them. They are more expensive than buying online, but they do provide a valuable service in that you can try before you buy.

 

Yes, yes. I've read about them in the books that papa brings home from his wagon trail rides out West. No, I jest. Unfortunately, I live in a relatively small town. Most people here don't even know what a fountain pen is. I'm only a couple hours from Charlotte and Asheville though so I can always make the 4-6 hour round-trip commute if I really want to see pens in-person... Although Charlotte would just be Montblanc.

[NHsueh]

 

Yes, yes. I've read about them in the books that papa brings home from his wagon trail rides out West. No, I jest. Unfortunately, I live in a relatively small town. Most people here don't even know what a fountain pen is. I'm only a couple hours from Charlotte and Asheville though so I can always make the 4-6 hour round-trip commute if I really want to see pens in-person... Although Charlotte would just be Montblanc.

 

Oh. I live in a small town too, so I whenever I want to buy a pen I have to travel out by train to get to the shop. Not living in a big city definitely has disadvantages! At least you have a Montblanc boutique in your town, mine doesn't

[Nib+]

I believe that the horrible inconsistency in production and quality control of fountain pens is the main reason why the world has (rightly so) moved on from them.

http://i.imgur.com/2NlixVu.png

[NHsueh]

I believe that the horrible inconsistency in production and quality control of fountain pens is the main reason why the world has (rightly so) moved on from them.

 

It is probably true that making fountain pens is a very labour intensive and precision industry. Even slightly tweaking the tines of a nib that looks perfectly balanced can sometimes cause differences in smoothness and tooth without anything looking like it has moved.

 

However, I would have hoped that at the prices they are charging these days they would be perfect without having to test it before buying. On the other hand this might raise prices even more. :s

[Sailor Kenshin]

I think your "diatribe" is well-said. Many, perhaps all, of the big-name, modern manufacturers don't employ nib tuners.

 

Even making sure a nib is aligned would be something. Employing nib tuners would be best. There simply isn't enough people who know what they're doing and there aren't enough dollars to employ nib tuners to tune every pen that comes off the manufacturing line. On top of that, one nib tuner isn't likely to be able to keep up with a 500-pen-per-day production run.

 

In the old days, when you went to buy a fountain pen from a stationary store or a department store, your pen was tuned by a technician before you left the store.

 

There is a reason why people who are known for their nib work (Richard Binder and John Mottishaw) tune every nib that leaves their shop. There is a reason why I will tune every new pen I sell--even in a fledgeling pen shop.

 

It is an unfortunate side-effect of the popularity of these pens--high production numbers and spot-testing of 1-in-5 pens or 1-in-10 pens. That's not tuning; it's just testing to make sure it's adequate, not spectacular.

 

Really, the key is to find a shop with a good nib worker who will make sure your pen is great when you unbox it for the first time. Richard Binder and John Mottishaw are not the only ones any longer. Richard has trained me and Linda Kennedy of "Indy-Pen-Dance." Of course, you have Pendleton Brown who is very good at what he does. Mike Masuyama is another great nib worker (though I don't know that he sells new pens).

 

So, there are options. But, yes...it is annoying that a Montblanc or a Pelikan out of the box isn't expected to be perfect. Then again...every time I hit a pot-hole while driving I get frustrated that we can put a man on the moon, but can't make pavement that doesn't fall apart. Ponder that!

 

Blessings,

 

Tim

I don't suppose people consider the Sailor Sapporo, Mini, or 1911-M to be 'expe nsive,' but to me they are, and that's why I got them from Mottishaw. They were perfectly tuned for me and I never even pre-flushed 'em.

[NHsueh]

Greetings all,

 

I fear it may be because we are living in an era of mediocrity. Companies sell garbage because people have come to accept it and put up with it, or even expect it. If we all stopped buying their pens, maybe then they'd get the idea and put a little more effort (and money) into QC.

 

I read posts here everyday about members buying $50, $100, $150 and up pens and having to adjust or repair the nib/feed... or the capband fell off... or this or that. I cannot get my mind around this. Maybe it is because I come from a generation prior to the DIY generation. When I buy a brand new item, I expect it to work perfectly. I remember buying $6 Sheaffer Student Pens and $6 Parker Vectors and they worked beautifully right out of the box. A $6 pen!!! Now, it seems, you cannot expect a $700 pen to function properly anymore.

 

There does seem to be a small niche of pen makers who still repeatedly turn out good products, but these companies are getting harder to find. I can't believe this post with the MB 149! I thought every one of them was tested and adjusted before it left the factory,

 

I prefer buying new pens myself, but it seems the arguments in favor of buying vintage pens get stronger everyday. Oh well, perhaps if we stop buying these pens, the companies will wake up.

 

End of curmudgeonly diatribe.

 

All the best,

 

Sean

 

In my experience, Montblanc has the best track record of modern pens;I haven't tried Japanese pens but I suspect they will probably be similar. You have no choice but to try before you buy?

 

I think if we all stopped buying modern pens the companies would just move on to the easier rollerballs and ballpoints, as opposed to making them better, and modern fountain pens would be no more. That would be sad.

 

Vintage pens on the other hand have to be bought from reputable vendors (people who actually use fountain pens), if not you could end up buying a really bad fountain pen too, possibly worse than a modern fountain pen?

[vondauster]

I think its an open secret that the fountain pens you buy today are very hit and miss. The other day, some people were complaining about Sailor fountain pens, and just in this thread, someone complained about a Pilot fountain pen, so even Japanese pens aren't immune to having problems.

 

In fact, I vastly prefer to buy fountain pens at shops where I can dip test them, so that I can find one that I like. The only time I might consider buying it without testing would be at a Montblanc boutique, but only because they have don't allow dip testing. However, there are so many Montblanc boutiques around that it isn't that difficult to get the nib exchanged within the 1st six weeks. Other brands I would definitely test them first.

 

That is interesting to hear. My local Montblanc Boutique (Cherry Creek Mall, Denver) has a tray - about 45cm wide - with every factory nib available in a series of 146s. They are always inked with a black ink and anyone who is versant with fountain pens is welcome to try any or all of them out. This is where, for example, I found that current MB nibs are at least one width wider than 1960s MBs.

 

Might be worth asking about.

 

Having known me as a customer and collector for many years, they also had no issue with me dip testing a Brahms Donation pen before buying it. Which, of course, I did - excellent nib.

 

YMMV, as always,

 

Will