Poor Quality Of Expensive Pens

[Mike_Dowling]

Thank you for the offer, I am in the US, Hudson Valley NY, I may very well take you up on that, I was so fed up with the pen I just put it back in its box and kind of forgot about it.

 

 

The Lamy 2000 is really a great pen and I wish it wrote better for you.

 

Where do you live? I ask because if you're in the US, you can mail it to me or Linda Kennedy of "Indy-Pen-Dance."

 

PM me or email me through my website below (in my signature) if you'd like.

 

Tim

 

 

LOL put me in the social climber status, I always use my fountain pens to take meeting notes and at work.

 

social climbers who will display the pen in a meeting to enhance their status and then scratch notes with it as if it were a disposable ballpoint, and enthusiasts who will make the pen their special tool for a writing task, such as their journal or their next book.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Mike_Dowling

[Simius]

 

Most big cities usually have a pen shop where you can test the pens before you buy them. They are more expensive than buying online, but they do provide a valuable service in that you can try before you buy.

 

I prefer buying from shops, but this is no panacea.

 

The Lamy 2000 SS I refer to in the original post was from a shop in Paris from which I've bought several pens (they have very good prices). The 1-minute dip test provided no clue about the ink delivery problems internal to the pen.

[NHsueh]

Just a few thoughts after reading the responses.

 

In the original post, I had flagged problems with specific pens (bad feed, bad nib, etc). The diagnoses were not mine, but were from the manufacturers (Lamy, MB) or the retailers (Danitrios). All pens were eventually fixed, and now write perfectly.

 

A few other clarifications. I wasn't referring to problems that required adjusting, e.g., tuning the nib or flow of ink. These, I understand, and put down to individual preferences. The pens simply did not write. This, I don't understand or accept. Why should a brand new MB 146 not write after being filled? Or a brand new Danitrio Densho, otherwise resplendent in its Urushi layers?

 

It's possible that this was a streak of bad luck. However, not a single problem with Pilot, Platinum, Sailor, or GvFC pens.

 

Sadly, there have been people who have had problems with those pens. I think this is a problem that goes across all manufacturers in the industry, just some have more problems than others, and whether they do anything to put it right.

[NHsueh]

 

Hello NH,

 

You raise a very valid point; instead of striving to improve quality, they would most likely cease production - which may be what they want to do in the first place, it might partially explain some of the shoddy quality here of late.

 

Personally, I haven't had too much trouble, my post was primarily in response to the OP's comments and my disbelief that Pelikans and MBs could be that bad. The only real trouble I've had myself was out of a batch of five Noodler's Ahab pens, I had one that I couldn't get to write, (even after carving out the channel and adjusting the nib), and I purchased an Edison stub nib that I can't get to write, (even after an ammonia solution soak and a couple of trips through my ultrasonic). I'm sending the nib to Brian Gray for adjustment or repair.

 

Other than those two things, I, personally, really have no complaints.

 

All the best,

 

Sean

 

I remember at one stage, Pelikans had the reputation of always working out of the box. That was way back in 2000. I don't think quality control has significantly changed, but I think a certain core group of users had very good experiences with Pelikan, and word spread that Pelikans always worked out of the box. As time went by, with more and more people getting Pelikans, you started hearing problems.

 

The same is true for Sailor I believe. A certain core group of users had very good experiences with Sailor... That is not to say that Sailor has a superior QC (although it might), its just the honeymoon stage.

Edited September 5, 2013 by NHsueh

[jhataway]

Hello to all,

 

My new pen purchases (Onoto and Pelikan) have all been from Richard Binder, and all perform very well. My vintage pens have been purchased from reputable sellers in the UK, and all also perform very well. In the middle of Modern to vintage, I have a Parker 75 and a Mont Blanc 144 that also perform well. So, I guess I have been somewhat lucky overall. The Onoto pens have the smoothest nibs of any in my modest collection, and they are very well made pens. I doubt if Richard had to do much to these nibs, but to me it makes sense to purchase from someone who makes sure that you get a writing instrument. I enjoy using the vintage pens somehow. Getting old!

[writepen]

Greetings all,

 

I fear it may be because we are living in an era of mediocrity. Companies sell garbage because people have come to accept it and put up with it, or even expect it. If we all stopped buying their pens, maybe then they'd get the idea and put a little more effort (and money) into QC.

 

I read posts here everyday about members buying $50, $100, $150 and up pens and having to adjust or repair the nib/feed... or the capband fell off... or this or that. I cannot get my mind around this. Maybe it is because I come from a generation prior to the DIY generation. When I buy a brand new item, I expect it to work perfectly. I remember buying $6 Sheaffer Student Pens and $6 Parker Vectors and they worked beautifully right out of the box. A $6 pen!!! Now, it seems, you cannot expect a $700 pen to function properly anymore.

 

There does seem to be a small niche of pen makers who still repeatedly turn out good products, but these companies are getting harder to find. I can't believe this post with the MB 149! I thought every one of them was tested and adjusted before it left the factory,

 

I prefer buying new pens myself, but it seems the arguments in favor of buying vintage pens get stronger everyday. Oh well, perhaps if we stop buying these pens, the companies will wake up.

 

End of curmudgeonly diatribe.

 

All the best,

 

Sean

acceptance of the unacceptable by many buyers leads to a habit--and the sellers realize they can get away with charging a lot for lesser quality. when the vendors start losing business they will get a message and act--but not before

[Simius]

 

Or user error.

 

I'd be interested to know how many working pens were bought and therefore what the percentage of problem pens was.

 

I can't imagine though that one person would buy so many duds. I wonder if user error somehow damaged the pens.

 

In the last 12 months:

No of new pens bought: 39.

No of lemons (had to be sent back for fixing): 8

Avg price of the lemons: ~250-300 Euros.

 

As for user error: Having used fountain pens continuously since I was 12, it's unlikely that I'd be doing something these last months to damage so many pens so much that they needed to be sent to hospitals (after all, the other 31 pens survived quite nicely). Manufacturers would have picked up enough clues to have refused warranty service.

[corniche]

I remember at one stage, Pelikans had the reputation of always working out of the box. That was way back in 2000.

 

Hello NH,

 

That is the ironic thing; I can remember a time when almost ALL pen companies shared that reputation, but it was farther back than 2000.

 

All the best,

 

Sean

[sumgaikid]

I believe that the horrible inconsistency in production and quality control of fountain pens is the main reason why the world has (rightly so) moved on from them.

 

I would disagree--fountain pens are no longer the main instrument of

communication. Computers and cellphones are. Also too,we've not got-

ten smarter. Just the opposite.

 

 

John

[kauloltran]

 

Hello NH,

 

That is the ironic thing; I can remember a time when almost ALL pen companies shared that reputation, but it was farther back than 2000.

 

All the best,

 

Sean

 

How do you measure reputation? A lot of people that had bad pens may not speak up about their experiences until recently. Did this forum even exist in 2000?

[corniche]

 

How do you measure reputation? A lot of people that had bad pens may not speak up about their experiences until recently. Did this forum even exist in 2000?

 

Hello K,

 

I measure reputation very simply; I expect a brand new product to work as it is intended to work.

 

From my perspective, QC issues, (or lack thereof), began in the automotive industry; well, everyone rationalized this, saying these are large, complex machines, we have to make allowances. How many brand new cars have you purchased in the last 35 years or so, that DIDN'T need to go back to the dealer to have something fixed or adjusted, (okay, there may be one or two Lexus, [or equivalent], owners out there who can say that - but even that promise of quality is beginning to slip away).

 

Believe it or not, there was a time in this country when having to go back to the dealer to get something fixed on a new car was a rarity, not the norm that is has become, and that includes "common cars" like Chevrolets and Fords; not just the upper echelon marquees, (which is the subject of this thread).

 

This slip-shod manufacturing ethic has since trickled down into almost every facet of life. You asked how I measure reputation, that's a good question; I measure it by the simple test of personal experience. If a new item fails me; I seek a replacement; if the replacement model fails me; I seek a new manufacturer. That said, there was a time when I could be loyal to a wide range of brands; that has changed considerably in the last 20 years of so - not just with pens, but with most everything I buy. Unfortunately.

 

All the best,

 

Sean

Edited September 6, 2013 by corniche

[Sailor Kenshin]

Hello K,

 

I measure reputation very simply; I expect a brand new product to work as it is intended to work.

 

From my perspective, QC issues, (or lack thereof), began in the automotive industry; well, everyone rationalized this, saying these are large, complex machines, we have to make allowances. How many brand new cars have you purchased in the last 35 years or so, that DIDN'T need to go back to the dealer to have something fixed or adjusted, (okay, there may be one or two Lexus, [or equivalent], owners out there who can say that - but even that promise of quality is beginning to slip away).

 

Believe it or not, there was a time in this country when having to go back to the dealer to get something fixed on a new car was a rarity, not the norm that is has become, and that includes "common cars" like Chevrolets and Fords; not just the upper echelon marquees, (which is the subject of this thread).

 

This slip-shod manufacturing ethic has since trickled down into almost every facet of life. You asked how I measure reputation, that's a good question; I measure it by the simple test of personal experience. If a new item fails me; I seek a replacement; if the replacement model fails me; I seek a new manufacturer. That said, there was a time when I could be loyal to a wide range of brands; that has changed considerably in the last 20 years of so - not just with pens, but with most everything I buy. Unfortunately.

 

All the best,

 

Sean

For the past couple decades, we've owned a Honda CRV, a Toyota Echo, a Toyota Rav 4, and most recently, one of those Scion 'Ice-cream trucks.' None of those are even near Lexus class, and none needed anything beyond routine maintainance.

 

You bring up a good point that I want to underscore. I believe there are affinities with pens and cars. Those lunch-pail Japanese cars and I had an affinity. Same thing with me and cheap Chinese and Japanese pens!

 

Some people have their affinity with Montblancs, lol.

[The Good Captain]

I've had a couple of Omas pens that have had piston problems. One went back to Italy but developed the same thing after I got it back. However, it was a simple matter to dismantle it and grease the piston properly and it's now just waiting for another fill. the other one needed the same treatment but that was also a simple procedure. No such problems with my Pelikans etc.

[View from the Loft]

I have bought two modern Onotos that were both flawless out of the box, as was a Pelikan M600. The Lamys in our family have all been flawless out of the box, but all supplied by an excellent company that tests very pen.

 

My only modern dud was a BI nib for Parker Duofold International.

[51ISH]

Personally, my own feeling is that 'Customer Service' is (pretty much) a thing of the past....

 

Now before all you retailers start having a 'pop'...I don't mean you guys...I was a retailer for the best part of 35 years, so, I know where you are coming from...the

retailer's are doing the best they can of a bad job...hence you have folks promising

to adjust nibs and stuff before they send them out, you guys know they are poo out

of the box...

 

It's not just about pens, banking, food stuffs, you name it, it's just not the

'Quality' it was...well not in my back yard anyway...

 

The simple fact is, they are only concerned with the 'bottom line' now back in the day they used to think that if you look after your customer that will come....

 

Now they think, fit in with what we want or go somewhere else we ain't bothered...

 

My local bank, I won't say the name, but in the UK it used to be the Midland

Closed our local bank, you have to go to another town (even though it is a smaller

branch)...and go in any branch now and try and find a bank teller...

He is hidden away in a corner at the back...want to pay in a cheque...no, you can't do that...it has to be fed into a machine....a chap/lady...will happily come across and show you how....bit like in a supermarket...self serve tills....a lady will come across and show you how....I was in a DIY store the other day...won't say who but

it hell it... was... B&Q....not one till manned....you had to serve yourself....Tesco do it too, there were 4 of us 'serving ourselves'.....not one of us could 'process' our

transactions ....not our fault....there fault...I said to the

'Customer Service Assistant' ...(not her fault either) " I ain't being funny love,

but wouldn't it have been quicker to just jump on the till?"

 

Sorry, I went 'off on one' there...but when you spent 35 years trying to provide

'proper' customer service as you knew it...it sort of makes your blood boil...

[tonybelding]

This was sharply brought home to me a couple of years ago when I saw a top executive of Starbucks UK talking about their coffee on TV - what he said was that Starbucks had no interest in producing the very best cup of coffee they could, they simply strove to ensure that every cup of coffee they produced was of exactly the same standard quality (OK so it doesn't relate to pens, but I think it is relevant to the general attitude in business in the world today). Perhaps it's my naievete but I was shocked an appalled at any business that had no interest in at least striving for excellence even if they don't achieve it.

 

Actually... I see his point, and I sympathize somewhat. Consistency should be a goal. One of my gripes about Noodler's ink is that it's usually great, but it also varies randomly from bottle to bottle, so you never know exactly what you're getting when you open a fresh one.

[tonybelding]

I have observed this... Expensive luxury pens and limited edition pens are more likely to work properly if they come from companies that also make inexpensive pens. Pelikan is a current example, and I might include Waterman (though I'm not sure about their more recent product). Pilot is another example.

 

To make a robust "school pen" or basic workhorse pen that gets used a lot requires mastering the underlying technology of nibs and feeds and durable parts. That carries over to their expensive and decorated pens.

[Blade Runner]

I have observed this... Expensive luxury pens and limited edition pens are more likely to work properly if they come from companies that also make inexpensive pens. Pelikan is a current example, and I might include Waterman (though I'm not sure about their more recent product). Pilot is another example.

 

To make a robust "school pen" or basic workhorse pen that gets used a lot requires mastering the underlying technology of nibs and feeds and durable parts. That carries over to their expensive and decorated pens.

Please cite some statistics to back such a sweeping generalization. If you think Pelikan quality control is so stellar, you haven't searched the Pelikan forum very much.

[proton007]

I work in a technology company that deals with businesses.

QA is of paramount importance in our case. An order may be worth millions, and the customer won't ever deal with us again if we deliver a sub standard product. In addition the switching cost is pretty high.

 

Pen companies know its not the case. Heck, all small product manufacturers know its not the case. They don't even know who their customer base is because they don't sell anything themselves. In most cases its upto the retailer to filter the bad lemons, he's the guardian of the brand's reputation. In this manner they've been insulated from complaints and are not focusing on quality.

 

I guess as the sales move online, the customers have directly started to get most of those bad lemons.

 

Also, its pretty awful there's no company interest in these forums. There's no company rep to be seen, its not like the web is teeming with hundreds of fountain pen forums.

Edited September 7, 2013 by proton007

[Florida Blue]

Also, its pretty awful there's no company interest in these forums. There's no company rep to be seen, its not like the web is teeming with hundreds of fountain pen forums.

There have been from time to time. Exaclair has stayed in contact with the forum and directly addressed issues of SITB in J. Herbin inks a few years back by posting a statement in the Inky Thoughts sub-forum and offered to replace any bottle of ink with mold growth for free. Of course, there is also Nathan of Noodler's.

 

The only pen company rep. on FPN that I knew of was from Cross. The company actively communicated on the Cross sub-forum for a while. I don't think I've ever dealt with a company that stood by their products like Cross does (in the world of pens at least).