Poor Quality Of Expensive Pens

[NHsueh]

 

That is interesting to hear. My local Montblanc Boutique (Cherry Creek Mall, Denver) has a tray - about 45cm wide - with every factory nib available in a series of 146s. They are always inked with a black ink and anyone who is versant with fountain pens is welcome to try any or all of them out. This is where, for example, I found that current MB nibs are at least one width wider than 1960s MBs.

 

Might be worth asking about.

 

Having known me as a customer and collector for many years, they also had no issue with me dip testing a Brahms Donation pen before buying it. Which, of course, I did - excellent nib.

 

YMMV, as always,

 

Will

 

What I meant was trying the pen you are actually going to buy. I have used the test set pens before, but those only give you an idea of the line width; each individual pen has an unique nib which can vary even if they are of the same widths. The test set pens are also sometimes misaligned from careless customers, which is quite sad.

 

I have not been to a Montblanc boutique where they actually allowed you to dip test the pen. If there was such a boutique I would definitely visit them. In fact, I have wondered if you bought the Montblanc fountain pen at the Montblanc boutique and dip tested it after you paid for it but didn't like the feel of that nib, would they allow you to swap to a different pen, or just send that pen in for servicing?

[alc3261]

I've had a problem with an Onoto (modern) excellent Customer Service and fixed exactly to my requirements. My Omas pens from Write Here! (thank you John) are lovely. My Viscontis (also from Write Here - he isn't paying me, honestly!!) top notch. My Lamy 2K Medium not nice, I just don't like it (anyone want a Lamy 2K?, it's for sale!!). I got excellent service for my TWSBI Vacs - dry as dust (but I'd better not say so because some people didn't!!). My TWSBI 580 1.1 stub is gorgeous. All my Edisons are great.

So, all in all YMMV!!

[Blade Runner]

Bad examples of fps have existed since fps were popular as writing instruments. It's only now that most brands have shifted to luxury marketing that their prices have gone so high while dealers now have much less expertise in adjusting and fixing pens before and after sales that makes things particularly frustrating.

 

Some things I've done:

Buy the pen, and before you leave the store, fill it and test it. If it doesn't write satisfactorily, ask that something be done right then at the dealer's expense. After all, you are paying extra for the service of a brick and mortar store.

 

If you buy online, see if the dealer has a policy to exchange or fix a faulty pen at his expense.

 

Buy from brands that have customer service centers in your own country. Having to send a foreign pen overseas yourself with long wait times, little or no communication, and the possibility of having to do this more than once is a big obstacle for me when buying a pen unless the dealer is willing to do this for me.

[Simius]

i have the same doubt

 

The diagnoses in the original post are not mine, but that of the manufacturer/ distributor. e.g., I just received a note from Lamy telling me that the both the nib and feed were bad and had to be replaced. And so on...

[andymcc]

I've been lucky and only had one faulty pen, a TWSBI Mini(which was repaired without a hesitation by TWSBI) all the other pens worked out the box as expected, most of the pens are sub £100. My Kaewco AL worked as soon as I put ink in it and the EF nib was as smooth as you'd expect it to be, the other Kaweco Sports in various nibs were the same, the Lamy AL worked once inked too, even the vintage pens that needed a little tlc and cleaning wrote as I'd expect.

The only pen that I had to tweak the nib is the only £100+ pen I've bought, a Platinum #3776 Century SF, after a little messing about it writes fine now but it took the shine off my first £100+ purchase and I'm always a bit wary when using it that I might have to tweak the nib again. I had planned on buying a few more expensive(for my anyway) pens like a Pilot Falcon and maybe an Edison Beaumont but I'm now questioning why I'd buy these pens when I might have to mess about with tuning them, if I want to break down/repair/tweak/tune etc a pen I'd rather buy a vintage pen and go into the purchase knowing some work will have to be done, it will probably cost less too.

 

The most reliable pen I've got is also my first fountain pen since being in school, a £10 Parker bought from WHSmith that has been inked since purchased 10 years ago and has never needed anything doing to it, it starts first time and has never given be an ounce of trouble...maybe I should stick to cheap and cheerful pen

[jar]

I'm really sorry that so many of you seem to have really, really bad luck.

 

Fortunately my experience has been somewhat different. Looking only at new pens that I purchased where the pen was at least ten times my hourly wage at the time I have a small but not insignificant body of evidence.

 

I've purchased about twenty to twenty-five new Sheaffers in that range. Not one has needed any work.

 

I've purchased about half that many new Parkers and again, not one has needed any service.

 

In Watermans the sample is slightly smaller, about 8-9 new pens. Zero problems.

 

Montblanc pens have also been trouble free but only four or so of my MBs were purchased new.

 

I have five new Auroras and again, all perfect.

 

I have about the same number of new OMAS pens; all perfect.

 

I have three perfect pens from Ferrari da Varese.

 

I did have to send one of my new Montegrappas back when it would not start if left overnight, but also over a half dozen new ones that have been perfect.

 

I bought four new Pelikans. All have been flawless.

 

I have three new Caran d'Ache pens bought between the early 90s and today. All perfect.

 

I have four new Yard-o-Led pens, all perfect.

 

Graf von Faber Castell pens have also been great. Of the new ones I've purchased not one has needed any work.

 

I'm pretty sure I will have left out some marques and of course, excluded pen bought used but overall my experience based on a fair size sample and over about a half century seems to show that quality has been generally high.

[Felix1]

The only OMAS that I ever bought had multiple defects when it arrived. Fortunately, I bought it from Classic Fountain Pens (nibs.com) and exchanged it with no problem.

 

Like you, Tony, I had a problem with one pen from CFP. But that was just one problem among many pens bought from the company and it was quickly remedied. The pens CFL delivers are normally hands-on tuned to perfection but I happened to hit a time when John was on vacation. Sarah checks them out in his absence but she doesn't do much tinkering with the nibs. Again, the rework was quickly accomplished when John returned.

 

I'm a loyal and frequent customer.

[WirsPlm]

There was some post around here not too long ago from someone in the manufacturing industry about the different margins on luxury vs basic goods that was very interesting: It boiled down to this:

 

Luxury items have the extra margin to absorb a return. Cheap products don't. Cheap products get heavily engineered to reduce the return rate, because just one return could wipe out the profit on several items. Luxury items often aren't made with the same laser-like focus on performance because the maker doesn't lose (percentage-wise) as much profit.

 

I have noticed in items I buy that after a certain price point, quality *goes down*, which fits the explanation above. I've seen this in clothes, in technology, in appliances and I guess we're seeing the same thing with FPs.

 

This is why I always try to buy from stores / brands aimed at middle / upper-middle class customers. They're the people who have the money to spend, but also care enough (and have the time) to fight with companies about lousy products. It's the sweet spot between cheap stuff and high-end items IME. I've used stuff bought from the upper-tier mass-market department stores that has lasted for years in great condition, where my few boutique splurges have problems much quicker.

Edited September 5, 2013 by WirsPlm

[richardandtracy]

I wonder how much of this is down to the dealer. ...

To be honest, none of it should be down to the dealer. The pen making specialist should be the manufacturer. If they can't get their own product right, they shouldn't be in the business.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

[Florida Blue]

I don't own that many modern pens. Most of my pens are vintage from the 1920s up to the 1960s.

 

However, I've only had an issue with one of my modern pens a Cross Suavage. The nib and feed were misaligned and I sent it to Cross and for $10 plus postage they gave me a brand new section that was screwed into the existing pen.

 

I have a modern Parker Sonnet, IM, Latitude and Rialto, a Cross Apogee, a Pelikan M400, a Waterman Carene, a Pilot Custom 74 and an OMAS 360. I've never had any issues with any of these pens. All bought new in the last four years.

 

I must say that Parker and Waterman made some awful pens back in the day (e.g. 1950s Parkette, the Taperite). Practically anything made by Waterman after WWII was made with cheap plastic that was prone to cracking and shrinking, which is why they went bankrupt.

 

I don't think Sheaffer has ever made a bad pen. At least I can't think of one

Edited September 5, 2013 by Florida Blue

[TimGirdler]

OK, Tim. What percentage of brand new pens do you have to adjust before you send them to customers?

 

100%.

 

Part of that 100%, though, is that I will always assume that an out-of-the-box nib can be better. Sometimes it gets much better; sometimes it's only marginally better.

 

In some cases, the new pens I've seen didn't need to have the tines aligned (and I am always shocked when it happens that the tines are aligned). The pen was an Onoto. I've heard that, out of the box, they are usually much better than others.

 

Though I love Pelikan pens, almost every nib of theirs I've seen has to be adjusted. In some cases the nib and feed have to be knocked out of the collar and the nib has to be re-centered on the feed.

 

Suffice it to say: I would never send a pen out of my shop un-tuned. Even if the pen tested well, I'd be sure to make sure it was "Binderized" (or some clients now refer to it as "Girdlerized" when I do it).

 

Tim

[Mike_Dowling]

Some of it may be the expectations of the buyer "this one writes too wet, or the M nib is writing like a broad, a lot of the criticism is kind of subjective. But I agree a $500 FP, or hell a $100 FP (my Lamy 2000) that skips or hard starts out of the box is ridiculous, it's akin to a $4500 Swiss mechanical watch that loses 5 minutes a day. It's completely unacceptable, I won't buy another Lamy because my 2000 is such a problem, now my $120 pen just sits in its drawer as I have no "nibmeister" near me to fix it. My Pelikan M800 has been perfect, as has my TWSBI 580.

[TimGirdler]

I don't suppose people consider the Sailor Sapporo, Mini, or 1911-M to be 'expe nsive,' but to me they are, and that's why I got them from Mottishaw. They were perfectly tuned for me and I never even pre-flushed 'em.

 

I'm trying to add a line of pens to my pen shop and the lowest-priced, entry-level model would be, I think, around $60-$70. But, those will go out tuned just as if they were $400-$500 pens.

 

As I mentioned, there's a reason that John Mottishaw and Richard Binder do what they do, and there's a reason that people buy (almost exclusively) from them. People know that a "Mottishawed" or a "Binderized" nib will write quite well--they way they are supposed to.

 

I think that most fountain pen people like fountain pens for several reasons and are, therefore, willing to put up with less-than-stellar writers. Some, however, may not know what a well-tuned nib feels like and so are ignorant, with scratchy and toothy nibs not bothering them. Some fountain pen users, however, have written with or own a well-tuned pen--and that changes everything for them.

 

I, for one, am glad you love your pens.

 

Blessings,

 

Tim

 

 

[TimGirdler]

Some of it may be the expectations of the buyer "this one writes too wet, or the M nib is writing like a broad, a lot of the criticism is kind of subjective. But I agree a $500 FP, or hell a $100 FP (my Lamy 2000) that skips or hard starts out of the box is ridiculous, it's akin to a $4500 Swiss mechanical watch that loses 5 minutes a day. It's completely unacceptable, I won't buy another Lamy because my 2000 is such a problem, now my $120 pen just sits in its drawer as I have no "nibmeister" near me to fix it. My Pelikan M800 has been perfect, as has my TWSBI 580.

 

The Lamy 2000 is really a great pen and I wish it wrote better for you.

 

Where do you live? I ask because if you're in the US, you can mail it to me or Linda Kennedy of "Indy-Pen-Dance."

 

PM me or email me through my website below (in my signature) if you'd like.

 

Tim

 

Tim

[dspeers58]

I have to agree about the Japanese pens. Mine have all worked flawlessly. The Pelikans that I have bought have had a bit of trouble with nibs. Skipping/flow etc. My Lamy 2000 also needed serious adjustment to get it write well. However, the Platinum 3776 and the Pilot Custom 74 and the Pilot VP have been great pens. Work flawlessly and are a pleasure to write with.

[kauloltran]

Japanese pens do have amazing quality control despite being much cheaper than the Western counterparts.

Edited September 5, 2013 by kauloltran

[rwilsonedn]

I think that from the manufacturer's view, this question might look quite different, for several reason.

First, it's just not true that the only purpose of a high-end pen is to write. In fact, the more high-end, the more disparate purposes the pen must serve. It must please collectors who will put the pen in a display case or a vault and leave it there, social climbers who will display the pen in a meeting to enhance their status and then scratch notes with it as if it were a disposable ballpoint, and enthusiasts who will make the pen their special tool for a writing task, such as their journal or their next book. Those roles have different needs.

For example, collectors usually insist on an un-inked pen. But actually testing a pen can't be done just by dipping: you have to flush it, fill it, and write with it to detect filling or flow problems. And cleaning it sufficiently to remove any traces of ink would be hugely time-consuming.That's a dilemma for manufacturers.

Also, there is a wider variety of writing styles today then when everyone learned on fountain pens in school. The best way to tune a nib for a ballpoint user is called baby bottom by a fountain-pen enthusiast. The best flow for someone who writes mostly on printer paper may be a mess for someone who only writes on Rhodia. People have many different writing angles, rotations, and pressures. The extremes may be too far apart for an average tune to satisfy anyone.

And there is the problem of labor costs. Unless you are selling the pen for fine-jewelry prices, you have two choices: have most of the work done by (mostly-automated) machines, or have it done in low-labor-cost countries. If you choose machines, then you will have to settle for statistical sampling for quality control, and there are certain kinds of defects you will simply have to ignore. If you want hand-built, there are only a couple of places in the world that still have a tradition of hand-crafted pens. One of them, for instance, is certain parts of India. But you may not like the filling mechanism or the feed design that Indian hand-crafters prefer.

It is, as several people have remarked, a different market than in the days when everyone learned to write properly with a fountain pen, the pen was first of all a writing instrument, and there could be skilled craftspeople at both the manufacturer and the retailer.

ron

[Geordielass]

I think there is a poor attitude across all industries today about quality control and similar aspects of business (fountain pens are no exception to this I am sure) they seem to do only just enough to get by, never more.

 

This was sharply brought home to me a couple of years ago when I saw a top executive of Starbucks UK talking about their coffee on TV - what he said was that Starbucks had no interest in producing the very best cup of coffee they could, they simply strove to ensure that every cup of coffee they produced was of exactly the same standard quality (OK so it doesn't relate to pens, but I think it is relevant to the general attitude in business in the world today). Perhaps it's my naievete but I was shocked an appalled at any business that had no interest in at least striving for excellence even if they don't achieve it.

[corniche]

I think if we all stopped buying modern pens the companies would just move on to the easier rollerballs and ballpoints, as opposed to making them better, and modern fountain pens would be no more. That would be sad.

 

Hello NH,

 

You raise a very valid point; instead of striving to improve quality, they would most likely cease production - which may be what they want to do in the first place, it might partially explain some of the shoddy quality here of late.

 

Personally, I haven't had too much trouble, my post was primarily in response to the OP's comments and my disbelief that Pelikans and MBs could be that bad. The only real trouble I've had myself was out of a batch of five Noodler's Ahab pens, I had one that I couldn't get to write, (even after carving out the channel and adjusting the nib), and I purchased an Edison stub nib that I can't get to write, (even after an ammonia solution soak and a couple of trips through my ultrasonic). I'm sending the nib to Brian Gray for adjustment or repair.

 

Other than those two things, I, personally, really have no complaints.

 

All the best,

 

Sean

[Simius]

Just a few thoughts after reading the responses.

 

In the original post, I had flagged problems with specific pens (bad feed, bad nib, etc). The diagnoses were not mine, but were from the manufacturers (Lamy, MB) or the retailers (Danitrios). All pens were eventually fixed, and now write perfectly.

 

A few other clarifications. I wasn't referring to problems that required adjusting, e.g., tuning the nib or flow of ink. These, I understand, and put down to individual preferences. The pens simply did not write. This, I don't understand or accept. Why should a brand new MB 146 not write after being filled? Or a brand new Danitrio Densho, otherwise resplendent in its Urushi layers?

 

It's possible that this was a streak of bad luck. However, not a single problem with Pilot, Platinum, Sailor, or GvFC pens.