Three Heavier Papers

[Bo Bo Olson]

I don't have a scanner...will soon.
Wouldn't prove anything anyway, but poor writing.

I have printer paper to chunk it into the printer, that included failed papers; and good to better scribble only paper.

I have some 20 or so scribble only papers perhaps more. I'm still at a beginning I am missing so many papers many have.

I'm into heavier papers or I try to be.. Some times they write better than the lighter or middleweight 120 g papers.
Sometimes that purely depends on the ink. In a sample pack, I'd thought Gmund Beige Blank at 170 g better than it at 120, until I ran into some inks where it was the other way around.


It irritates me, like here that all I could get was ink jet&laser.
I tend to think pure laser should give me a better hand writing paper than one that is also involved with quick sucking up of ink for a ink jet printer.
I tend to think that could short change someone who was after shading, if the ink-jet part of the paper sucked it up as fast as it could.
I could be very wrong here, in I'm still 'noobie' with paper..


I try or will try harder to make sure I will buy no 'combo' paper. Once bitten don't mean twice shy. I got some Southworth paper when I was in the states....grab now...look later 'combo' paper.
This time I did not have a chance to look now, in I had enough trouble through my long established B&M to get what papers I got.
No samples...so I couldn't get the medium weight papers of these makes. Took three telephone calls to get me the paper I got.

Both my Verge and the Velin are combo papers.

I don't have regular Verge de France, nor Velin, so I can't compare these.

What I have and thought to tell you is available is:
How certain nibs and inks laid.These were in the still inked cup and is not a test of these paper.

A test by me requires some 8 nib widths and flexes. for an ink.
I think that about that many would do for the start of a test of a paper.
How ever I'm just taking what was in the cups...blue cup, green cup brown cup and odd colors cup.

It depends on how one defines Echo, ghost, or show through. I rate echo, as less than ghost where neither can be read. Show through by me is if I put my mind to it I can read some of the words.
Bleed through is easy...got all that blood on the back of the paper.

Velin pur Coton...50% cotton, 125 g. Creme.
Ghosts.

Verge de France 160 g, 25% cotton ivory
Echoes.

I have some 100% Strathgmore, that absorbed shading ink, more than I expected.
My antique 25 % cotton Eaton's Corrasable typewriter paper really can't be compared in it was formulated for typewriters, and is a one side paper. So I have little little experence with paper with cotton in it.
With my very limited experence expect the more cotton in the paper to absorb the ink...lowering the shading. If wrong...I want to know.

I'm so far behind the moon, I didn't even know what DCP meant (Digital Color Printing)...from Clairefontaine. 160 g.
It is also available in 90-100-130-160-190-210 and up. I tend right now not to chase the 200g level of paper.
According to the blurb on the pack it is a high gloss finish, high witness, mellow texture and a delicate satin finish.
I've paper with more gloss like Avery Zweckform 120 g....

You have to hold it up off the table to see Echo.
By me Echo, means awareness something has been written on the other side.
Flat there is no echo.
It has the feel of nice paper with out being slick like Avery Zweckform 120 g..Some where stuck away I have higher gloss even slicker 170 g Avery.

Now to the pens and inks as viewed under a 2.8 x /D7 250 magnifying glass.
BEF...bare eyed feathering/wooly line...as seen from a sitting position.
NEF noticeable when held close.
NEF/MAG slightly noticeable...confirming with the magnifying glass. (a pretty good line)
MAG...needs to be frowned at through a the magnifying glass. (This is a good line.)
CSL Clean sharp line

I didn't see any feathering, what I saw was a wooly line or uneven ink coverage in the lettering.

Diamine has a reputation for wooly lines.

Of course I used the old tried and true scientific method..grab a pen, what ink is this???...look it up in the card file.

DCP 160g Velin 125g Verge 160 G

Lamy 1.5 Joy nail, Noodlers Apache Sunset.
DCP 160g CSL Velin 125g NEF Verge 160 G slightly noticeable BEF, wooly line at NEF


Black titanium oxide Lamy Persona CI nail B-M width, Noodlers Apache Sunset.
DCP 160g CSL Velin 125g NEF Verge 160 G NEF slightly wooly-unclean


Pelikan 605 regular flex BB with a 1/4 letter on first word touch of baby bottom in Pelikan 4001 Green.
DCP 160g -wooly line MAG Velin 125g NEF wooly line Verge 160 G- NEF wooly line.
The ink is better than this nib, which is going to become a B stub.


There is a big shade difference with these two similar style nibs. The B is rather murky, the M bright. Papers make this ink, on the Gmund paper mentioned, this ink had a very sharp line.

Lamy CPM-1 nail B Lamy Green.
DCP 160g CSL Velin 125g NEF Verge 160 G NEF

Safari nail M, Lamy Green
DCP 160g CSL Velin 125g NEF/MAG Verge 160 G NEF/MAG

Geha 790 KM semi-flex wet nib with Diamine Chocolate.
DCP 160g CSL Velin 125g NEF Verge 160 G NEF/MAG



Pelikan 100N R&K OF easy full flex R&K Old gold green. Ran very dark on all papers in both Galo papers I thought it was a black.
DCP 160g MAG slightly wooly Velin 125g MAG slightly wooly Verge 160 G MAG slightly wooly


Pelikan 400NN OF 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex Diamine Grape..
DCP 160g CSL Velin 125g NEF/MAG very slightly wooly Verge 160 G MAG very slight wooly.


Black Pelikan 140 semi-flex OF MB Sepia (discontinued).
DCP 160g CSL Velin 125g MAG very slightly wooly Verge 160 G CSL

Geha 790 semi-flex EF ERRS-a blue black iron gall ink.
DCP 160g CSL Velin 125g CSL Verge 160 G CSL

I don't have the experience with Verge to say 'how' it wrote, it has a rough reputation in lesser weight. .

Edited July 23, 2013 by Bo Bo Olson

[dcwaites]

I don't find that the thickness of the paper has much to do with feathering, spreading or bleeding, other than a heavier paper in a series will show less show-through (ghosting) than a lighter paper.

 

I have some Clairefontaine DGP in 100 gsm, and find it generally behaves quite nicely, but not as well as Stora Enso 4CC or Superior paper.

 

Currently I have found that the best behaving paper in cut sheet that I have is Fuji Xerox Business Digital Copy in 85gsm. It behaves better than HP Color Laser, CF DGP, Stora Enso or OCE Topcolor. The only paper I have found that behaves better is Clairefontaine Notebook paper.

 

I have found that Fuji Xerox ColoTech Idol actually shows the inks a touch more vividly, and is smoother to write on, but does show a touch of bleeding where the FX Business Digital Copy doesn't.

[TMLee]

I'm so far behind the moon, I didn't even know what DCP meant (Digital Color Printing)...from Clairefontaine. 160 g.

It is also available in 90-100-130-160-190-210 and up. I tend right now not to chase the 200g level of paper.

According to the blurb on the pack it is a high gloss finish, high witness, mellow texture and a delicate satin finish.

I've paper with more gloss like Avery Zweckform 120 g....

 

 

My CF 160g DCP paper feathered like crazy

[Bo Bo Olson]

What inks did you use?

I was pretty happy with my 'batch'.

I'd expected the couple of Diamine inks I used to feather or wooly line more.

 

dcwaites

Thanks for the info, I'll add them to the 'needed' papers. DGP? or DCP?

All the papers you mentioned but the Clairefontain which I don't have much, are new to me.

I had 'heard' of Fugi..did they buy up Xerox?

 

It's good to have a big list of papers.

 

I wasn't quite as impressed with HP 120g as I'd hoped...but I could have had one of that weight that was not quite as good as the best. They seem to have 2-3 versions. I'll have to check that out sometime.

 

Has any one experience with the same company, the same weight pure laser vs 'combo' ink-jet & laser paper?

 

 

 

[lapis]

I'm not sure if I'm at the right meeting but what David says sounds good to me.

I too find that thickness of the paper doesn't always play a big role for such parameters. The weight (as in density given in g/m²) doesn't always coincide with the thickness. I always think about texture, then there's also porosity etc. The thickness of a sponge doesn't guarantee anything.

I find that HP's Officejet Value Pack Paper weighing in at 180 g/m² feathers and bleeds just as much as -- if not more than -- Artoz's Fine Ribbed Paper (100g/m²),

[Bo Bo Olson]

Officejet???

Is that ink jet paper or laser?

 

I'm still at the beginning of the paper journey.

As I said, at first I thought the Gmund 170G paper was better than the 120 g, until a couple of inks disagreed.

 

"""I always think about texture, then there's also porosity etc""" Texture I don't know as well as I can and will, and not having the normal grammage of G.Lolo couldn't say much.

I don't have the best Clairefontain Triomphe or Rhoda yet.

I have the Clairefontain notebook Veloute 90g

 

Porosity...if you could be so nice and explain more.Is that why I have the feeling ink jet is has more porosity. And perhaps combo paper.

 

I have some regular block 80 g Rossler (in three formats) than I don't care for...I think for that reason.

 

Mike have you got that paper from Aldi? The stuff from Lidle sucks. That went right into the computer. (In Germany Aldi and Lidle are two of our biggest discount super markets, that sells seasonable items also.)

 

That was the first time I could find paper marked (90 g) wove, laid, bluetten and 120 g linen effect...and cheap. It's not bad paper at all...from a 'noobie' stand point. It seems to be a nice paper. Better than the cheaper Rossler.

In a month or so they should have it again. In I got some two years in a row, I don't need any more.

 

I dislike Brunner all the way up to 120 g...good for ball points or starting your BBQ.

Their M&K is good the I find the 85-90? better than their 95g.

I do like Oxford Optic.

 

Strathmore 100% cotton seems to absorb shading..as I think I mentioned.

The Southworth are all combo papers...seem good; but I fear I'm missing something because it's Combo paper...ink-jet & laser, instead of being just laser.

 

I have some Zander ( some old from back in Carters time (used as typewriting paper) and new )..but I've been waiting to get more papers before I give that a fair test. Also I need to 'know' more before I check the old vs the new.

 

I just saw Sandy's review of 100g G.Lalo. I now have a much better understanding of my ignorance.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Bo Bo Olson

[lapis]

Officejet???

Is that ink jet paper or laser?

===> Inkjet.

 

Porosity...if you could be so nice and explain more.Is that why I have the feeling ink jet is has more porosity. And perhaps combo paper.

===> The degree to which a material is porous, (ha ha). Thay means the amount of pores (holes) or minute interstices through which water, air, light etc. can pass. I was thinking about a thin sponge versus a thick piece of styropor.

 

Mike have you got that paper from Aldi? The stuff from Lidle sucks.

===> No, but if you can recommend Aldi's paper, I'll buy it. I love Aldi. Almost everything there with the same or even higher quality costs 1/3 to 1/2 as elsewhere. Lidl is even cheaper but of lesser quality (IMO). Yesterday, my wife bought a solar cell pocket calculator for 1.99 from Aldi. Of course nothing like Texas Instruments', but for that dough....

 

I dislike Brunner all the way up to 120 g...good for ball points or starting your BBQ.

===> Hmm, I really like Brunner's Folia's Notizklotz (9 x 9 cm note block, 80g/m²). Now that has texture. I even prefer it to Rhodia (also 80g/m²). I especially dislike CF (Velouté (90 g/m²) just because of its glossiness (i.e. lack of texture). I guess I am a weirdo here because everybody else just loves the **** out of CF.

 

I too realize that there are so many different types of paper to try out. I read the reviews and as a matter of fact also copy the links, but I usually spend a dime or two to spare on new inks instead.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Officejet???

Is that ink jet paper or laser?

"""""==> Inkjet."""""

= then feather and bleed...mostly...some where Sandy said certain inks work well on it.

 

I have been neglecting the paper reviews.... In most seem to be talking about calenders of one kind or another.

Having first chased pens, then inks am finally getting into paper...in spite of my advice...buy some paper every 2-3 bottles of ink.

Experience is learning from your own mistakes. Wisdom is learning from the mistakes of others.

Experience is also more costly.

 

Sometimes paper is harder to get hold of quantities I want to try out...before splurging.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Bo Bo Olson