Lamy's Nib Sizing?

[The Blue Knight]

I brought my first Lamy safari on Monday with a Medium Nib.

 

I'm not getting on with it as it's too broad for my liking (normally buy medium but this seems more broad than Parker's) So i'm thinking i might have to buy a different nib what i am wondering Is is there much difference between extra fine and fine and is extra fine equivalent to normal fine?

 

Also is extra fine a bit scratchy? .

Edited June 14, 2013 by top pen

[mmkoenecke]

See http://www.gouletpens.com/Nib_Nook_s/1114.htm

 

This compares Lamy nib sizes and is a great resource. I don't find the extra-fine to be significantly more toothy or scratchy than the fine.

[NativeTxn]

I enjoy my Lamy Safari EF nib. It is on par size-wise to my Pelikan fine. Doesn't seem scratchy at all to me.

[The Blue Knight]

See http://www.gouletpens.com/Nib_Nook_s/1114.htm

 

This compares Lamy nib sizes and is a great resource. I don't find the extra-fine to be significantly more toothy or scratchy than the fine.

 

Thanks a lot I think looking I think I'm going to have to go for the extra fine as it doesn't look like there is much difference between fine and medium.

[MartDL]

There does seem to be a bit of mystery about Lamy nib widths, and more variability than there should be. I only have a couple of Lamy Safari's. They both came with medium nibs, but one was wetter and broader than the other, using the same ink and paper. Subsequently, I have found their fine, and extra fine nibs to be nice to use.

 

I don't own a Lamy 2000, but the general opinion seems, always, to be that they write wide, as do all Lamy nibs. But I've also read that recent Lamy 2000's now write a 'true western size". I have used a medium, which many will say is more like a broad, and I found it just like any other medium.

 

A Safari EF will be much thinner than a gold Pelikan fine though. Pelikan steel nibs seem to write as expected, but their gold ones usually write as if they were the next size up.

 

Sorry - I've strayed. What I meant to say was that fine, and EF Safari nibs seem smooth (though my EF seems to be a bit dry), Regarding your medium, you may have just got a broader one of the batch. My impression is that people's experience of Lamy nib sizes seem to vary a lot. I love the Nib Nook at Goulet Pens, but I've found that with their Lamy nib samples tend to give a very consistent picture of the Lamy always writing wide, but which isn't always matched by the pen in your hand. I am still very much a newbie though, so I'd suggest you take the advice of others, with more experience, who will hopefully also reply to your query.

 

I do hope I haven't muddied the waters.

[The Blue Knight]

There does seem to be a bit of mystery about Lamy nib widths, and more variability than there should be. I only have a couple of Lamy Safari's. They both came with medium nibs, but one was wetter and broader than the other, using the same ink and paper. Subsequently, I have found their fine, and extra fine nibs to be nice to use.

 

I don't own a Lamy 2000, but the general opinion seems, always, to be that they write wide, as do all Lamy nibs. But I've also read that recent Lamy 2000's now write a 'true western size". I have used a medium, which many will say is more like a broad, and I found it just like any other medium.

 

A Safari EF will be much thinner than a gold Pelikan fine though. Pelikan steel nibs seem to write as expected, but their gold ones usually write as if they were the next size up.

 

Sorry - I've strayed. What I meant to say was that fine, and EF Safari nibs seem smooth (though my EF seems to be a bit dry), Regarding your medium, you may have just got a broader one of the batch. My impression is that people's experience of Lamy nib sizes seem to vary a lot. I love the Nib Nook at Goulet Pens, but I've found that with their Lamy nib samples tend to give a very consistent picture of the Lamy always writing wide, but which isn't always matched by the pen in your hand. I am still very much a newbie though, so I'd suggest you take the advice of others, with more experience, who will hopefully also reply to your query.

 

I do hope I haven't muddied the waters.

 

Hey Thanks for your answer It's was really useful hearing from someone who knows lamy a lot better than I do.

 

I'm contemplating whether I might be better off just buying another safari in EF or a new nib as

the nib costs about half the price of a new pen however i'm not terribly keen the lack of weight of the pen so I might be be better off with the nib?

 

Thanks again.

[MartDL]

Well, the nice thing about the Safari is that, though you'd end up with two nibs, you can easily swap them over, whenever you fancy a change, or if you find yourself with another pen, and you "nib needs" change if you should want to have pens with different nib sizes. It's hard to go wrong, in view of the cost of nibs, and swapping them over is a piece of cake.

 

One other little advantage, if you wanted to try it some time, is that because the Lamy nibs are not attached to the feed, you can make some alterations to the nib a little easier, including making the nib a little drier or wetter.

 

So, grab a few nibs, and a roll of sticky tape, and have a great time

 

Good luck

[Tom Aquinas]

I like my M Lamy 2000 nib, but then again I like my Parker 51 B nibs. In my job I find a good flow of ink from a B nib helps with fast note taking. I also have a Caran d'Ache Ecridor which has a F 14ct nib which flows like a medium. However I generally use "wet" M nibs. For work where I need an F nib I use an early 1950s UK Parker Duofold.

[Bo Bo Olson]

There was never a normal, there was always a 1/4-1/2 nib with difference between companies.

One of the problems with the myth of 'normal', is no one lists all the pen companies they consider "normal". Just fatter than 'normal' which as far as I can make out means Japanese...which also has standard variance between companies...so a "Western skinny" Sailor nib is a 'fat' nib in Japan.

 

IMO if you start out with western nibs your Mark 1 Eyeball is so calibrated, If you start off with Japanese pens which many do because of the high quality nib on the cheap beginner pens, you are issued a Mark 1-A 1 Eyeball in stead.

 

According to a chart I saw, Conway Stewart was the widest, Parker and Sheaffer were wider than 'The Normal' Pelikan...in the 800 nib range was a tad narrower. Pelikan has two size ranges.

 

Waterman 'famous' at least a while back for being skinner than Pelikan here on the com...well the chart showed two Waterman nib ranges, one as wide as the Pelikan, the other narrower than the 800, all the way down to EF where the 'normal' Pelikan was narrower than either of the Waterman nibs.

 

There is no "normal" nib width. There is only company standards, which vary from company to company.

 

All companies use their very own standard, rightfully so. Why should everyone make a Sheaffer size..why some one could buy a Sheaffer instead of their pen.

 

Years, decades, generations ago, back when they had pens shops everywhere, each company did some sort of market survey, of their customers (they were no more stupid than today...actually wiser in they wanted to sell fountain pens (pre' conglomerate)....this was back in the day of one man one pen, and the wife got the old one, days....You could and did test the pen and nib; and get a nib swap as you waited.

 

Market surveys were done even back then before Color TV...before TV even, before Talkies.

The brand loyal fountain pen buyers wanted a nib @ or with in a range for M, F or B.

Other companies made theirs a bit wider or a bit narrower than others...for their own customers preferences.

 

Everyone goes around comparing apples to pineapples and complaining.

If you didn't buy all those other company's pens you'd have nothing to complain about.

Sell all pens but one company....then you have to worry about the normal tolerance/slop that every company has.

 

In 20 years...all nibs will be standardized, or so marked, when robots make the nibs. Right now, people do; by hand; the final smoothing so there is and will remain variance.

Each company has it's own standard width....and a Fat of one size will equal a Skinny of the next...with a bit of bad luck. A bit of regular luck a slightly Fat can be told from a slightly Skinny, if a large enough magnifying glass is used...on the same paper with the same ink.

 

With in every size range, there IS variance of nib width, in the same company.

I often post a chart of Sheaffer standards that Rick posted a long time ago. It showed the exact variance range allowed in each width.

There was slop...and A fat nib could be the same width as the skinny nib below it in the tolerance

ranges.

The reason is with in the company standards there is 'slop' to what is what width.

 

From Rick
‘’’Sheaffer used a dial indicator nib gauge for measuring nib sizes. The nib was inserted into the gauge, and the size read off of the dial. A given size being nibs that fell within a given range. What is listed below were the ranges given on a gauge that I saw in the Sheaffer service center prior to being closed in March 2008.

Measurements are in thousandths of an inch.

XXF = 0.010 - 0.013
XF = 0.013 - 0.018
F = 0.018 - 0.025
M = 0.025 - 0.031
Broad* = 0.031 - 0.050
Stub = 0.038 - 0.050

*there was some overlap on the gauge. May be 0.035 - 0.050 ‘’’


As you can see, a fat in any range and a thin of the next higher width are the same.

 

 

You can do either of two things....enjoy the 1/2 & 1/4 size variance that different companies offer, or spend a fortune by having a nibmeister make a nib exactly to Your Standard, which is no one else's... remember you can not ever change inks, nor papers...or that nib will be OFF..your exacting 'standard'.

 

Simplest would be four cups on your desk. one for B nibs, M, F and EF....no matter what is marked on it...that way you get your standard, for the cost of four cups instead of

That is a very bad idea....we want employed nibmeisters, not unemployed ones.

 

Please read my signature.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Bo Bo Olson

[papabear16]

I've got a few Safaris, a few AL-Stars, and all the Lamy nibs to swap with them. In my experience, the F is closer to the M than the EF is to the F, if that makes sense. My EF is a tad on the dry side, but not bad at all. I only use it with Aurora Black for small notes at work. I generally use my F on a legal pad for most of my notes. My M is loaded with Diamine Red Dragon for edits, and I have a B loaded with Diamine Majestic Blue for signatures.

[The Blue Knight]

There was never a normal, there was always a 1/4-1/2 nib with difference between companies.

One of the problems with the myth of 'normal', is no one lists all the pen companies they consider "normal". Just fatter than 'normal' which as far as I can make out means Japanese...which also has standard variance between companies...so a "Western skinny" Sailor nib is a 'fat' nib in Japan.

 

IMO if you start out with western nibs your Mark 1 Eyeball is so calibrated, If you start off with Japanese pens which many do because of the high quality nib on the cheap beginner pens, you are issued a Mark 1-A 1 Eyeball in stead.

 

According to a chart I saw, Conway Stewart was the widest, Parker and Sheaffer were wider than 'The Normal' Pelikan...in the 800 nib range was a tad narrower. Pelikan has two size ranges.

 

Waterman 'famous' at least a while back for being skinner than Pelikan here on the com...well the chart showed two Waterman nib ranges, one as wide as the Pelikan, the other narrower than the 800, all the way down to EF where the 'normal' Pelikan was narrower than either of the Waterman nibs.

 

There is no "normal" nib width. There is only company standards, which vary from company to company.

 

All companies use their very own standard, rightfully so. Why should everyone make a Sheaffer size..why some one could buy a Sheaffer instead of their pen.

 

Years, decades, generations ago, back when they had pens shops everywhere, each company did some sort of market survey, of their customers (they were no more stupid than today...actually wiser in they wanted to sell fountain pens (pre' conglomerate)....this was back in the day of one man one pen, and the wife got the old one, days....You could and did test the pen and nib; and get a nib swap as you waited.

 

Market surveys were done even back then before Color TV...before TV even, before Talkies.

The brand loyal fountain pen buyers wanted a nib @ or with in a range for M, F or B.

Other companies made theirs a bit wider or a bit narrower than others...for their own customers preferences.

 

Everyone goes around comparing apples to pineapples and complaining.

If you didn't buy all those other company's pens you'd have nothing to complain about.

Sell all pens but one company....then you have to worry about the normal tolerance/slop that every company has.

 

In 20 years...all nibs will be standardized, or so marked, when robots make the nibs. Right now, people do; by hand; the final smoothing so there is and will remain variance.

Each company has it's own standard width....and a Fat of one size will equal a Skinny of the next...with a bit of bad luck. A bit of regular luck a slightly Fat can be told from a slightly Skinny, if a large enough magnifying glass is used...on the same paper with the same ink.

 

With in every size range, there IS variance of nib width, in the same company.

I often post a chart of Sheaffer standards that Rick posted a long time ago. It showed the exact variance range allowed in each width.

There was slop...and A fat nib could be the same width as the skinny nib below it in the tolerance

ranges.

The reason is with in the company standards there is 'slop' to what is what width.

 

 

From Rick

‘’’Sheaffer used a dial indicator nib gauge for measuring nib sizes. The nib was inserted into the gauge, and the size read off of the dial. A given size being nibs that fell within a given range. What is listed below were the ranges given on a gauge that I saw in the Sheaffer service center prior to being closed in March 2008.

 

Measurements are in thousandths of an inch.

 

XXF = 0.010 - 0.013

XF = 0.013 - 0.018

F = 0.018 - 0.025

M = 0.025 - 0.031

Broad* = 0.031 - 0.050

Stub = 0.038 - 0.050

 

*there was some overlap on the gauge. May be 0.035 - 0.050 ‘’’

 

 

As you can see, a fat in any range and a thin of the next higher width are the same.

 

 

 

 

You can do either of two things....enjoy the 1/2 & 1/4 size variance that different companies offer, or spend a fortune by having a nibmeister make a nib exactly to Your Standard, which is no one else's... remember you can not ever change inks, nor papers...or that nib will be OFF..your exacting 'standard'.

 

Simplest would be four cups on your desk. one for B nibs, M, F and EF....no matter what is marked on it...that way you get your standard, for the cost of four cups instead of

That is a very bad idea....we want employed nibmeisters, not unemployed ones.

 

Please read my signature.

 

Thanks for your detailed reply i learnt a got from it I should have done my research and brought one with a fine nib in the first place.