Choosing Vintage Pens?

[Michael Francis]

I've posted this on another site, figured I would post it here, too, so I can gather as much information as possible. Hope that's not a problem.

 

 

Hi, all. I'd be interested in purchasing some vintage pens in the near future. Just looking for any advice you all can give me on what to look for, what to stay away from. Good brands, bad brands, choosing pens from ebay, etc. Any help that you have is much appreciated.

 

I apologize if this topic has been covered before. Newbie here.

[penmanila]

my two cents':

 

1. determine what kind of vintage pen appeals to you--could be a factor of shape (flattop? torpedo?) or material (ebonite? celluloid? silver?) or brand (parker? sheaffer? wahl? waterman?) or model (vacumatic? 51?) or even filling system (lever? vacuum-fill?).

 

2. determine your price range, and what your desired pen/s will likely go for. (research this on ebay's completed listings.)

 

3. be aware of probable issues with the pens you like (vacumatics will need new diaphragms, for example) and what this will cost you.

 

4. examine all ebay pictures very closely to check for cracks, repairs, missing or mismatched parts, bent or broken nibs, etc. f you need more pictures, ask for them.

 

5. always factor in the possible cost of restoration.

 

6. be clear to yourself why you're going vintage rather than modern. (my collection still comprises mainly vintage pens--especially parker vacumatics--but lately i've been focusing on modern classics such as the new duofold, conway stewarts, and montblanc 149s and agatha christies, which i think evoke the best of the old, design-wise.)

 

good luck!

[Kelly G]

1. nothing surpasses investing the time to understand the vintage context.

 

2. IMHO - the nib makes all the difference - everything else is relatively superfluous.

 

3. With vintage pens you have a wonderful choice of filling systems - determine what you appreciate and go from there.

 

4. Stay with the top tier at first - it is hard to go wrong with Parker, Sheaffer, Waterman, Wahl/Eversharp, Pelikan, etc, etc.

 

5. Understand there are huge value differentials within brands and models depending upon the scarcity and condition of the particular pen.

 

6. IMHO there is great value in the vintage market pound for pound.

 

Good luck and Have fun!

[Edwaroth]

I have had marvelous luck with vintage Conway-Stewarts and Parkers. Also, I have gotten some outstanding deals on eBay, that said, it can be a (bleep) shoot. Look very close at he photos and by all means check out the dealer!!! Write to them with questions and KNOW what you are looking for. Another good site is Peyton Street Pens, remarkable selection and great prices. They have a great stash of NOS also. I have been pleased with purchases from PSP's...Happy customer.

 

Cheers,

 

Ed

[Bo Bo Olson]

1st vintage is about the nib, which is better than modern.

2nd, the filling systems.

You should go to Richard Binder's com and learn about fountain pens; nibs, filling systems, good advice on ink. This is the basics of fountain pens with good links to other masters.

 

If you have in nail and regular flex, B, M, F and EF, then you are ready for semi-flex. If you look hard you can find this in US pens.

If you take your time and find the proper professional sellers, you can find that flex in Swan pens before 1955.

German Pelikan, Geha and MB, Soennecken, Osmia, Kaweco, before 1966.....MB's better nib was '50-65, the '66-75 is only a tad less.

After that for semi-flex there was Aurora...could be still available from the factory or Delta.Edison makes a nib semi-flex.

 

Vintage only, for 'flexi' (Some Swan and German), the rest are basically 30's or before nibs; easy full flex, noodle, wet noodle.

 

 

I think you should learn stiff nibbed italic calligraphy, in there are some six strokes you can take into 'fancy flexible' writing. You also learn to Draw; form the letters.

 

I think also one should work their way up the flex chain.

It allows one to develop a light Hand.

Many jump to fast into Noodles and can't handle them so reject any pen with some flex as being too flexible for them.

 

For real flexible nibs I suggest dip pens before spending big money on nibs you might not want to do the work for to like.

[nxn96]

A lot of good advice thus far. A few additional thoughts:

 

Go easy into this. A lot of people will get interested in fountain pens- new or vintage- and seem to go off on a quest to see how many different pens they can acquire in as short a period as possible. It's OK to take your time.

 

If you can get to a pen show, it's a great way to learn what's out there and what's a "market" value for a given pen. Granted, you can often get a lot out of following eBay auctions, but a pen show is sort of like going to the Auto Show- all in one place and there's a lot of people available to answer questions.

 

If you start out with a couple of brands that were originally produced in your home country, and produced in large numbers, you'll likely be able to build a "core" collection without having to go broke in the process. For example, vintage Parkers, Esterbrooks and Sheaffers are widely available in the US at a very wide range of prices; Conway Stewarts, on the other hand, not so easy to find in the US at "bargain" prices.

 

Most all vintage pens require some restoration work. You can either buy it with the work having been done, or you can buy it un-restored and pay to have the work done afterwards. Some pens are easy to fix, others a little trickier to fix. You should try to factor that into your budget. A lot of people learn how to do their own repairs (I don't have that skill), but you'll need to develop the skill and acquire the parts and tools if you go this route.

 

A lot of people will start out with the lower tier pens- Wearevers, pens branded and sold by variety stores (Woolworth, Kresge, etc.), etc. While some of these pens can be surprisingly nice pens, by and large, they were made with cheaper materials and employed a lesser build quality.

 

Have fun, and hope this helps.

[Michael Francis]

All great information. I'm going to do a lot of reading. Thanks, everyone, for the help. I appreciate it.

[Pterodactylus]

1. nothing surpasses investing the time to understand the vintage context.

 

2. IMHO - the nib makes all the difference - everything else is relatively superfluous.

 

3. With vintage pens you have a wonderful choice of filling systems - determine what you appreciate and go from there.

 

4. Stay with the top tier at first - it is hard to go wrong with Parker, Sheaffer, Waterman, Wahl/Eversharp, Pelikan, etc, etc.

 

5. Understand there are huge value differentials within brands and models depending upon the scarcity and condition of the particular pen.

 

6. IMHO there is great value in the vintage market pound for pound.

 

Good luck and Have fun!

 

Well spoken, I would also sign this.

For me most important is point two and one.

[Wahl]

You got great advice so far.I would add the following, don´t start buying over the internet.

 

As a newcomer to our passion, I would advise you to go to a reputable store, like The Pen Hospital in NYC, or attend a Penshow. You will be able to see, handle, and write with the FP´s which attract you, and talk with knowledgeable people who will be happy to help you.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Do not join, The Pen of the Week in the Mail Club.

Do not join The pen of the Month in the Mail Club.

:embarrassed_smile:

 

Take your time, read....decide what pen you want that you saved for by not being in either of those two clubs.

The pen every two months in the mail club, will get you a much much finer pen.

You will know much more about the nib you are buying...and the filling system and company behind your nib.

 

There are some 35-45 different nibs of this and that width and flex.

 

There are '50-60's German Obliques...IMO modern obliques are a waste of money. Germans seemed to specialized in Obliques with some flex; semi-flex or 'flexi' in 15 and 30 degree grinds.

 

 

US seemed to specialize in nail stubs.Of course you need an assortment of Cursive Italic (a modern grind) and Stubs, I'd suggest alternating stub and CI nibs, that way you cover the widths with out the next size up or down being exactly the same patten...and there for

boring.

 

I spent six weeks reading up on British made Swans and chasing so slow I didn't catch any.

I had decided on the two easiest to re-sac models to buy in the wild of Ebay. The others were more complicated. I was after an easy full flex nib from the start.

 

One of the problems is most folks selling on Ebay have no idea of what flex their nib has...many have no idea about a fountain pen other than it don't click like the BP in their pocket. I would have been gambling, on what flex the nib was...

 

I finally decided to bite the bullet and get one of the makes and models that by then I knew, in a full restored state with the nib flex I wanted, which was easy full flex.

 

Good color often costs lots more than simple black and gold.

I found a German pen, cheaper that worked with an Easy Full Flex nib; so I never bought a Swan.

 

Some day, I'll get one of the pretty Swan pens...and restored.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Bo Bo Olson

[inkstainedruth]

You got great advice so far.I would add the following, don´t start buying over the internet.

 

As a newcomer to our passion, I would advise you to go to a reputable store, like The Pen Hospital in NYC, or attend a Penshow. You will be able to see, handle, and write with the FP´s which attract you, and talk with knowledgeable people who will be happy to help you.

 

I'll admit to not having followed this suggestion. But the pens I've bought online have, for the most part, had lots of questions (about the nib, markings, and general condition) of the pen before I bid. I've also walked away from pens -- a lot of them -- that didn't (IMO) look to be in decent shape or too expensive.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[YouCollectMe]

First pens in my collection came from local estate sales and flea markets. Being able to hold it in my hand and visually check for flaws before purchase has developed an insight that helps me choosing pens online. Similar brands and models tend to suffer from similar usage damages. You just need to "dive" and learn. There is no SAFE GUIDE for purchasing on eBay. Asking lots of questions is probably the best advise. Ask seller to test certain features such as a writing sample.

 

You can't expect to purchase fully restored pen on eBay at half the price of an antique store:)

 

You'll get used to, it just takes some time.

[Michael Francis]

You got great advice so far.I would add the following, don´t start buying over the internet.

 

As a newcomer to our passion, I would advise you to go to a reputable store, like The Pen Hospital in NYC, or attend a Penshow. You will be able to see, handle, and write with the FP´s which attract you, and talk with knowledgeable people who will be happy to help you.

 

Yes, I will be heading there to get my Snorkel repaired.

 

 

 

 

Take your time, read....decide what pen you want that you saved for by not being in either of those two clubs.

The pen every two months in the mail club, will get you a much much finer pen.

 

 

 

 

US seemed to specialize in nail stubs.Of course you need an assortment of Cursive Italic (a modern grind) and Stubs, I'd suggest alternating stub and CI nibs, that way you cover the widths with out the next size up or down being exactly the same patten...and there for

boring.

 

 

 

What is this "pen every two months in the mail club"?

 

And I seem to be leaning more towards the italic nibs. Are stub nibs similar or the same?

[Bo Bo Olson]

There is things like the Book of the Month Club.

In Scotland it is the single malt of the Month Club.

 

When you dive into pens, it is very easy to buy a pen a week, that is in the mail. :blink: Where is the Postman.... He'd two minutes late.

In frustration one goes and orders another cheap pen...

 

There is a ultra long thread you can tell about what pen you have just received or are waiting for in the Mail.

Been there,...a good place to catch a case of envy.

 

If you buy a pen every month instead of every week, you can afford a somewhat better pen that costs four times as much. You have 4 weeks to read more.

 

A pen bought every two months; still keeps you hooked.. but now you can afford a much better pen at 8X the amount you can spare for Pen of the Week in the Mail.These kind of pens.

 

It also gives you time to learn what is what, and to buy paper, and ink, so you can get the most out of your nib/pen.

 

Go look at the Ink Reviews, look at Sandy's reviews, shows you what papers you should slowly gather. Eventually you will have a nice assortment of nibs, as you try to match, nib width, flex, paper to ink, to see which ink dances at midnight on what paper.

 

It takes a while to find out what a real rare pen is....at a good price.

Most pens will show up again with in a week to a month, perhaps two, in case something you want slips by. Some times at a better price.

The slower you pursue pens, the better pen you get, in you have the money reserved, the knowledge of value and your """need""".

 

IMO The Hunt is half the fun....any one can sell his car for a 'buy now' pen....but to hunt one up at a nice price...to pull the trigger on a good price = two pens for the price of an over priced "BUY NOW" instant gratification pen.

 

Chase the Nib!

[Pterodactylus]

You got great advice so far.I would add the following, don´t start buying over the internet.

 

As a newcomer to our passion, I would advise you to go to a reputable store, like The Pen Hospital in NYC, or attend a Penshow. You will be able to see, handle, and write with the FP´s which attract you, and talk with knowledgeable people who will be happy to help you.

 

Yes, I will be heading there to get my Snorkel repaired.

 

 

 

 

Take your time, read....decide what pen you want that you saved for by not being in either of those two clubs.

The pen every two months in the mail club, will get you a much much finer pen.

 

 

 

 

US seemed to specialize in nail stubs.Of course you need an assortment of Cursive Italic (a modern grind) and Stubs, I'd suggest alternating stub and CI nibs, that way you cover the widths with out the next size up or down being exactly the same patten...and there for

boring.

 

 

 

What is this "pen every two months in the mail club"?

 

And I seem to be leaning more towards the italic nibs. Are stub nibs similar or the same?

 

In short:

A stub nib is also a italic nib.

A italic nib is characterized that it gives you a (much) broader vertical stroke than the horizontal stroke (out of the nib grind not out of flexing the nib).

You can categorize italic nibs further into stubs, cursive italic and crisp italic nibs (the boundaries are fuzzy)

The difference is how sharp the edges and corners are grinded (stub most rounded, CI only slight rounded, crisp italic very sharp).

But there are several theads describing the differences of the ginding as well as writing experience and line quality.

The search function is your friend.

[Bugmerc]

Just browsing the Peyton Street Pen website, wow. Very nice stuff, I think I really need to get a Parker Vacumatic, those just have a "look" that seems to appeal to me. It just seems like it would be great to write with a pen from the 40's that functions like it is new.