Pelikan Blue-Black: Bottle Vs. Cartridge

[wastelanded]

Last month I bought a bottle of Pelikan Blue-Black, and also the same ink in long cartridges. I'd read that the cartridge version was a lot lighter than the ink from the bottle, but I didn't imagine this. Seen below, the top line is bottled PBB, Waterman Phileas M, the bottom is the cartridge, Kaweco Dia BB:

 

 

 

Once I got over the shock, the cartridge is actually not a bad grey ink, which is something I was looking for anyway!

[TLab3000]

No way! No way? I've used 4001 cartridges for more than a decade and I should have noticed it being grey. Could it really be...? Got to test it myself, here we go:

http://bibu31.de/tmp/4001.jpg

Sorry, I forgot how much this ink smears. One reason for me not to use it anymore. Unfortunately, only the one with the ugly writing didn't smear. Whatever, never mind.

[wastelanded]

No way! No way? I've used 4001 cartridges for more than a decade and I should have noticed it being grey. Could it really be...? Got to test it myself, here we go:

http://bibu31.de/tmp/4001.jpg

Sorry, I forgot how much this ink smears. One reason for me not to use it anymore. Unfortunately, only the one with the ugly writing didn't smear. Whatever, never mind.

 

Maybe it's my monitor, but your sample looks more like Königsblau?

 

I got both inks directly from Germany, and the seller says the cartridges are relatively fresh stock. Either way, I like the Pelikan grey for what it is

[TLab3000]

It's not your monitor. Damn. I just went to the store and asked for Pelikan Blue-Black cartridges without looking at what the clerk actually gave me Me stupid, clerk stupid, grrrr, sorry...

[Sasha Royale]

Yours is a small error, compared to messier and more painful mistakes of mine.

 

I am curious. Wastelanded said that your sample looks more like Königsblau?

Does Wastelanded have a good eye or not ?

 

I use Pelikan Koenigsblau (Royal Blue) in my Phileas.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Sasha Royale

[TLab3000]

I am curious. Wastelanded said that your sample looks more like Königsblau?

Does Wastelanded have a good eye or not ?

 

He does, indeed. I wonder why I also took the Königsblau bottle. I'm still curious, though, and will try to get some black blue cartridges on my way home.

[wastelanded]

I am curious. Wastelanded said that your sample looks more like Königsblau?

Does Wastelanded have a good eye or not ?

 

He does, indeed. I wonder why I also took the Königsblau bottle. I'm still curious, though, and will try to get some black blue cartridges on my way home.

 

Do let us know how you BB cartridges look?

[Daisy]

Oooh, that grey is quite nice. And it may well be reproducible with Pel black, the merest drop of Pel blue, and some distilled water...

 

I always think it's awesome when you get a happy accident like this one!

 

 

 

P.S. If I may ask, what paper is that?

Edited January 23, 2013 by Daisy

[wastelanded]

Oooh, that grey is quite nice. And it may well be reproducible with Pel black, the merest drop of Pel blue, and some distilled water...

 

I always think it's awesome when you get a happy accident like this one!

 

 

 

P.S. If I may ask, what paper is that?

 

I like it too, after accepting that it's not what it's supposed to be! The paper is a Moleskine Volant notebook, the thin softcover ones that are about A5 size. Nice paper for testing new inks, especially for Moleskine. Mind you, the next batch will probably be like tissue paper...like the planner of theirs that I wasted my...bought.

[whych]

Are you sure the cartridge isn't actually a black cartridge that has been put in to a pen that has just been washed and not had time to dry?

 

Their blue ink is pretty much the same whether you use the bottle or cartridge version.

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

Many thanks for reporting & documenting this flaw.

 

This pops up from time to time, and is certainly disconcerting.

Please see recent discussion of another documented case, Post № 30 - 34+ : LINK

 

Perhaps there are some things in common with both cases that can help identify possible cause / workaround.

 

Bye,

S1

Edited January 23, 2013 by Sandy1

[TLab3000]

Yours is a small error[...]

 

Like last week when I went to a shop to look for Montblanc's British Racing Green ink and asked for a British Racing Queen instead...

 

This time, it's really blue-black. Written with a Online rollerball pen on Rhodia paper. The pen has been completely dry before I filled it with the bottled ink.

Honestly, I don't see a difference.

http://bibu31.de/tmp/4001bb.jpg

 

If anyone in or around Freiburg reads this and wants a new-ish 80% full bottle of 4001BB, a 35% full bottle of 4001KB from the nineties and about two dozen cartridges for free, PM me.

[mboschm]

Exactly the same happened to me. It has got the worst flow I've ever seen, so down to the bin they go. They costed less than 1 euro so no big loss.

[Nicholas Lindan]

I've had a perfectly good bottle of Pelikan BBK go from what it should be - the top line in the example - to a light gray. I pulled it from a box in the back of the office supplies cupboard and the bottle was at least 15 years old. I chucked the bottle. I've seen Konigsblau writing fade to almost invisibility on buffered paper, but it seems to stay blue in the bottle.

 

It would be interesting to see a paper chromatograph of these two inks. If the fade-to-grey is pH related then a wee dram of vinegar may restore the grey ink to BBK.

[Phormula]

Welcome to the club!

As I wrote answering to Sandy's excellent review:

 

The two examples have been written with the same pen (Markiaro Gaiola T, Medium nib) on the same paper (Rhodia). The only difference is that the cartridge comes from two different cartridge boxes of Pelikan Blue-Black, bought on the same day but in different stores of the same town.

The difference speaks for itself, and to make things worse, it is not possible to tell the cartridges apart, they look exactly the same, and the ones that give the greysh color, do not show any sign of adulteration or deposit. The only way to tell which is which is to fill the pen.

 

 

 

Apart from the dull gray color and the issue of wriitng something, running out of juice, stopping in the middle to change the cartridge, and restart writing in a different color, the ink behaves nicely, good flow, just a little drier than "blue-black Pelikan Blue-Black".

[whych]

@Phormula

I have the old blue and white label Pelikan bottle and the blue black is similar to the 'grey' in the first sample.

After suing a bottle of it, I quite like the colour though.

Could it be that the formula has changed? The only way to tell is if there is a date on the box.

 

Your second sample, looks similar to the Sheaffer blue black.

[Phormula]

In my case, they are both cartridges, bought the same day in two different shops of the same (big) town.

I checked the cartridge boxes and I could find no difference in the package, they are identical.

My personal conclusion is that Pelikan Blue Black is sensitive to something (could be heat or freeze) and if the cartridges (or the ink bottle) is not properly stored, the blue component goes nuts, turning the ink into a quite nice gray one.

I cannot state whether the change is reversible or not and I still don't have the proof that if a cartridge in a package is "bad", all the carttridges in the same package will also be. The only thing I am doing at the moment is not using Pelikan BB for official writings when I will have a cartridge change in between.

[wastelanded]

Mmyes. I actually bought the box of cartridges just for the long cartridges, to refill; ironically, they don't fit in the pen I had intended them for.

 

But I'm actually quite taken with this Pelikan Grey. I've decanted all the cartridges into a Goulets' sample vial, which is almost filled to the top.

 

Yes, it's dry-very dry. But it's tamed my firehose of a Philéas nicely, a perfect match. And, it doesn't bleed through my horrible Moleskine calendar. When it runs out, then I have to look for another grey.

 

Serendipity, it's a good thing.

 

Anyone who has some of these carts and doesn't want, don't chuck em: send em to me!

[Daisy]

But I'm actually quite taken with this Pelikan Grey.

 

You know, when you first posted the scan I could have sworn I'd seen that grey, or one quite like it, somewhere else. I happened to run across this thread again, and had a moment to look through my samples -- sure enough, to my eye it bears quite a resemblance to Noodler's Lexington Grey. Not exactly the same -- but definitely not very different, either.

 

Next time you place a Goulet order, remember to throw in a sample of Lex Grey -- I think you'll be nicely surprised!

 

 

 

 

P.S. Here's a link to the large size scan of the review I referenced above -- up close you can really see the shading, especially toward the bottom of the page. With just a hair of dilution I think it'd be an almost exact match to your Pelikan Grey...

 

 

 

(edited to add P.S.)

Edited February 1, 2013 by Daisy

[whych]

I bought an old Senator recently that arrived this week. As per usual, I gave the pen a bit of water to 'drink' to loosen any dried ink inside the body. It also used Pelikan blue black which dried the same 'grey' as a the blue black in all my vintage bottles.

Somewhere Peilikan must have either changed the formula or the blue black that goes for export is different.

If you wash the pen out or wash a spill of it, you see it does contain a blue component. I have also found that it dries differently, depending on the paper, which is what you would expect from a document grade/permanent ink (Though Pelikan doesn't make the claim that it is document grade, they imply it is good enough.)