Diamine Vs. Pilot's Iroshizuku

[sarahfar]

I agree, except the apt comparison to me is Noodlers and its endless range of colors many very saturated and Diamine. Same basic price range and niche. Now I also think Iroshizuku is a very high end ink aimed more at say Montlblanc and Pelikan Edel..... Even J Herbin seems to be aiming at that market with the 1670 line.

 

I personally prefer Iroshizuku because of the color, lubrication and flow to match the range of complex colors. But I also love Visconti, Omas, some of the Montblanc and a many of Diamine colors. I find myself thug gravitating more and more to Iro but still use a lot of Visconti and Omas......

[Oranges and Apples]

Seems like the price is what matters here.

 

There is very little talk about the quality of inks here. If you remove the price tag, which one would you PICK (versus BUY)?

 

This is where a double blind study would be very useful because I feel there is too much of a bias due to the price (and a minor bias due to which country the inks represents).

 

So back to the question - at least proposed: Which one is considered a better quality brand?

 

The Iroshizuku has better quality.

 

The Iroshizuku inks have a lubricating feel to them. I've tried roughly half of the inks and own a forth of their selection and they all perform flawlessly. Now, what do I mean flawlessly? They are lubricating - makes the contact of paper and pen - feel much better than when using a drier ink. Iro inks are very pleasant to use. With the Iro inks are less prone to feather and bleed through the paper but with Diamine, they are more prone to feather and bleed.

 

Diamine inks are by no means bad but they are of lower quality than Iro inks. When you write with Diamine inks they do not feel as lubricating as the Iro inks. This is not to say that Diamine inks are generally not lubricating - because they are - but not to the extent which Iro has.

 

The Lubrication in the Iro inks just feels better when writing.

[Pelikan_FP]

 

This is where a double blind study would be very useful because I feel there is too much of a bias due to the price (and a minor bias due to which country the inks represents).

 

 

+1

 

I'd like to join this study as a volunteer to try out all those inks! This is exactly the type of study that would have to be performed in order to answer the OP's question.

[sarahfar]

Absolutely, it would be fascinating to do a double blind study with Sheaffer Skript, Iro, Diamine, Pelikan, Montblanc, Visconti and Noodler's, was thinking that last night. And of course this bottle think has to be balanced between price and price per ml also. One final think, once you have a the beautiful bottle which is basically an ink well with a label, why not sell a refill bulk quantity, Say a 100 - 150 bulk plastic container. Just makes a lot of sense to me and eliminates the number 1 criticism with so many people. I am assuming this is where some of the marketing criticism comes in. but keep in MB does the same thing if not worse when they sell there 30ml bottles for 17-19 USD and that will go up. And in their case the bottom isn't all that nice.

[CryptoDave]

Seems like the price is what matters here.

 

There is very little talk about the quality of inks here. If you remove the price tag, which one would you PICK (versus BUY)?

 

This is where a double blind study would be very useful because I feel there is too much of a bias due to the price (and a minor bias due to which country the inks represents).

 

So back to the question - at least proposed: Which one is considered a better quality brand?

 

The Iroshizuku has better quality.

 

The Iroshizuku inks have a lubricating feel to them. I've tried roughly half of the inks and own a forth of their selection and they all perform flawlessly. Now, what do I mean flawlessly? They are lubricating - makes the contact of paper and pen - feel much better than when using a drier ink. Iro inks are very pleasant to use. With the Iro inks are less prone to feather and bleed through the paper but with Diamine, they are more prone to feather and bleed.

 

Diamine inks are by no means bad but they are of lower quality than Iro inks. When you write with Diamine inks they do not feel as lubricating as the Iro inks. This is not to say that Diamine inks are generally not lubricating - because they are - but not to the extent which Iro has.

 

The Lubrication in the Iro inks just feels better when writing.

 

Oranges and Apples,

 

You hit the nail on the head. Thank you. That is precisely what I was attempting to state in my original post, but I didn't word it as well as you did.

 

I think a controlled double blind test would be awsome, if not a bit controversial, but who cares. I would be interested in the participating as well as obviously the results.

 

Dave

[The Good Captain]

...I feel there is too much of a bias due to the price (and a minor bias due to which country the inks represents).

Don't you think this comment could perhaps also be applied when a lot of US residents maybe extol the virtues of their 'home-grown' inks to a greater degree than others produced elsewhere, across various stretches of salt water? I've noticed quite a number of posts from people in this part of the world, asking about suitable inks for one purpose or another, almost automatically getting a response from 'The West' that the best for that etc etc would be one (or others) produced in the 3oz bottles with the ink-jet labels.

I have a few of the undoubted excellent 3oz bottles myself - of course I refer to the contents, not just the container - so this comment should not be considered as 'having a go'.

Worth bearing in mind, though.

 

 

[alvarado]

I find both brands good enough for my daily use. And it will be interesting to add Noodler's into the mix to create and three point tournament.

 

The worst bottle

 

1) Noodler's

2) Diamine

3) Iroshizuku

 

Quality

 

Certain spectrum of colours have been dominated by one of the brands, only if you are so addicted to use only one specific colour, then you can have a more precise answer.

 

Price tag

 

I personally do not much care as it only attacks your stretch reflex during your purchase. But you won't be buying a bottle daily as if you are getting a Caramel Macchiato at Starsbucks. :roflmho:

Edited January 3, 2013 by alvarado

[AlejoPlay]

I've only used Tsuki Yo and Shin Ryoku. Yes, they are smooth and lubricating and look nice and they write for what you would pay for them in Japan (I will probably spend most of my stationery budget on my upcoming trip on Iro inks). But at $25-$35 a pop, there isn't an ink out there that can live up to that price tag. Price IS a factor. Not all of us outside of Japan can splurge on those bottles.

 

That said, Dimaine/Herbin/Sailor all perform equally well for me and are more affordable. Noodler's and Private Reserve are the only brands that have given me some trouble.

 

And remember, pen and paper choice (and probably climate/temperature) all affect ink performance. So it's such a hard question to answer authoritatively.

[Lloyd]

With Noodlers and Diamine having such a diverse array of inks (especially the former), a double blind study would last a looooong time.

 

 

[inkstainedruth]

Honestly, I've been somewhat underwhelmed by the two Iroshihzuku inks I've tried. Asa-Gao, to be perfectly blunt, I found a boring color of blue. And drippy. And while I liked the color of Kosumosu (at least in natural lighting -- in incandescent light it looks like watermelon) I wasn't getting the amazing shading from pink to orange in my non-broad pens, so it was something of a disappointment. Plus, PR Rose Rage is nearly identical a pink (and in the US is a third of the price).

If someone went and bought me a bottle of some Iroshizuku ink, I would happily use it. And the bottles are truly beautiful in their own right. But I don't think I would go out of my way to buy any of it for myself.

OTOH, I've liked some Diamine inks but not others. (For that matter, though, I could say the same thing about pretty much any ink brand, including Noodler's.) So, YMMV. That's way getting ink samples is so useful, rather than dropping money on full bottles).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[pelahale]

for me, it's not all about the color and shading. Most Iroshizuku & Diamine inks have nice colors and shade, but in my personal testing on the paper I use most which are primarily Clairefontaines, Apicas, & some others at home, and standard crappy 20lb copy paper at work, Iroshizuku has clear advantages. Iroshizuku inks generally stay neat & perfect on both premium & (bleep) paper & dry 2x or more faster, thus allowing me to avoid smearing and other mess on legal documents where you don't get a second chance - the work day moves fast, no time for sitting, waiting, blotting, etc. I agree that these inks are overpriced & I wished I could be satisfied to go back to cheap ink, but once you work with Iroshizuku inks, it's hard to look back. I think Pilot research focused not only on the color & marketing (which they did in abundance), but their ink scientists have formulated these inks for practical use characteristics in a way almost no other inkmaker has til now. I've found the Edelstein inks also behave very predictably also and their dry times are better than most, but slightly longer than most iroshizukus.

[PAC 1957]

Seems like the price is what matters here.

 

There is very little talk about the quality of inks here. If you remove the price tag, which one would you PICK (versus BUY)?

 

This is where a double blind study would be very useful because I feel there is too much of a bias due to the price (and a minor bias due to which country the inks represents).

 

So back to the question - at least proposed: Which one is considered a better quality brand?

 

The Iroshizuku has better quality.

 

The Iroshizuku inks have a lubricating feel to them. I've tried roughly half of the inks and own a forth of their selection and they all perform flawlessly. Now, what do I mean flawlessly? They are lubricating - makes the contact of paper and pen - feel much better than when using a drier ink. Iro inks are very pleasant to use. With the Iro inks are less prone to feather and bleed through the paper but with Diamine, they are more prone to feather and bleed.

 

Diamine inks are by no means bad but they are of lower quality than Iro inks. When you write with Diamine inks they do not feel as lubricating as the Iro inks. This is not to say that Diamine inks are generally not lubricating - because they are - but not to the extent which Iro has.

 

The Lubrication in the Iro inks just feels better when writing.

Hi,

I totally agree.The main competitor to Diamine is Noodler"s not Diamine; the main competitor to Iroshizuku is Caran D'Ache ( but also the Pelikan Edelsteins , Momtblanc, Omas, Stipula and previously the now discontinued Parker Penman line ). These inks compete in the high end ink market niche, whereas Diamine and Noodler's are medium range ; I'm talking about the inks and their overall performance, not about their "presentation"( bottles).

Best

Piero

Edited January 3, 2013 by PAC 1957

[reval]

I consider them both reliable, high quality ink brands. I prefer Diamine because of its price, but inks from both brands are among my favorites.

[Pengrump]

Some of my favorite Diamine colors clog my pens, even if I water the ink down. I've never had that happen with Iroshizuku. Iroshizuku tends to lubricate better as well. That being said, I have about three times as many bottles of Diamine as Iroshzuku, both because of price and color choices. There are many nice Iroshizuku colors, but there are even more by Diamine.

[leod]

Quality: Iroshizuku

Quantity: Diamine

[mhphoto]

They're both great inks. Get whatever color tickles you.

[tnmike1]

I really think Iro is the better ink. Better performance qualities, all that I've tried are water resistant, their shading is far superior and they rinse out of the pen with amazing ease. As for pricing, some of us use very little ink over the course of a year, so $28-35 per bottle really isn't all that much given the quality of the ink

[AlejoPlay]

I really think Iro is the better ink. Better performance qualities, all that I've tried are water resistant, their shading is far superior and they rinse out of the pen with amazing ease. As for pricing, some of us use very little ink over the course of a year, so $28-35 per bottle really isn't all that much given the quality of the ink

 

But for $28-35 you can get several colors of Diamine. I guess it's okay if you use only one color and one pen every year. But that's not realistic for some. That said, once I go to Japan in March I'll stock up on 4 or so bottles and pay the $15-$18 for each (which I think they are worth). It's just hard for me to justify paying a markup on something that isn't worth that much in its home country (and the price differential is to pay for the shipping of the heavy bottles which has NOTHING to do with the ink). I wish Pilot would get with the program and manage to sell the ink in the US at a similar price point that they sell in Japan. Sailor does it, why can't they?

[Laura N]

... I wish Pilot would get with the program and manage to sell the ink in the US at a similar price point that they sell in Japan. Sailor does it, why can't they?

 

In addition to the extra costs of shipping the heavy bottles, it looks like Pilot has positioned Iroshizuku as a premium line. Maybe like a Veblen good?

 

Compare that to the Pilot Metropolitan, which Pilot reportedly sells for less in the U.S. than in Japan, possibly to stimulate sales.

 

It's interesting. Maybe it's like HP's printer/ink pricing strategy.

[AlejoPlay]

... I wish Pilot would get with the program and manage to sell the ink in the US at a similar price point that they sell in Japan. Sailor does it, why can't they?

 

In addition to the extra costs of shipping the heavy bottles, it looks like Pilot has positioned Iroshizuku as a premium line. Maybe like a Veblen good?

 

Compare that to the Pilot Metropolitan, which Pilot reportedly sells for less in the U.S. than in Japan, possibly to stimulate sales.

 

It's interesting. Maybe it's like HP's printer/ink pricing strategy.

 

I can see it being premium considering the cost of regular Pilot Ink in Japan is a fraction of Iro inks. There's nothing wrong with that. I've paid retail for Herbin inks which come in tiny bottles but I feel the price is fair. Pilot puts Iros on the $18 level in Japan, which is fair, but to pay nearly 2x that in the US because of the cost of import is a no-go for me. At $35 a bottle, an ink better make me breakfast and give me cab fare in the morning. :roflmho: