Are Smooth Nibs The Best?

[silverfish]

I see a lot of posts where people talk a lot about how wonderfully smooth a nib is. Phrases like "buttery smooth."

 

This somethine we seem to like, generally, but at the same time, is it necessary?

 

For example, I have a nib on a vintage pen from the 1940's which is a noisy writer and is definitely not smooth, and can be scratchy on the upstroke. BUT, my writing with this pen is the best by far. My other pens, many of which are really smooth writers, can't seem to give me such a good hand. These are with nibs varying from EF, F, B, BB, and stub, as well as an Italic caligraphy pen. And pens from Pelikan, Waterman, Parker, Pilot VP, and others.

 

Does anyone else find this to be a similar trait?

[Oranges and Apples]

For drawing, I'd prefer a perfectly "buttery smooth" nib and a very wet nib which glides all over the place with no control, but for writing I actually prefer the same type of nib but with a lower than average very wet nib.

[myn]

I definitely prefer smooth. Perhaps the reason you find your writing to be "the best by far," is that you actually slow down (unconsciously even) with your scratchy nib to avoid any possible problems such as ripping of paper etc. Nibs can sing without being scratchy.

[Ytland]

I remember years ago Richard Binder mentioned something which I've found time and time again to be the truth:

 

Pens that are *too* smooth, i.e. polished on a microscopic scale, often exhibit trouble spreading the ink over the entire tipping surface. This inhibits good ink flow and makes for an unpredictable line width. There must be a certain degree of roughness to a nib which gives the perfect balance between smoothness and good flow. In reality I find that you can rough a nib up microscopically and not feel the difference in the slightest, however the search for 'ultimate smoothness' is a futile one. Quality is all that matters

 

Jack

 

PS Apologies to Richard if I've misquoted at all (his post was made quite a while ago). In the event that I have, I'll stand behind the post which has been supported by my own experiences.

[ddustinn]

A nib that's too smooth can be hard to control. There's a fine (sometimes medium or broad) line between smooth and too smooth. I like at least some feedback, but no scratchiness.

[NedC]

I really peter to have some feedback, for both writing and drawing, I also prefer a smaller sweet spot than one finds on some pens, e.g. most contemporary Pelikan nibs, it allows for a bit more line variation, even at the expense of sometimes producing a broken line, which I often want when sketching.

[penned_in]

I thought I was imagining things!

 

I've been enjoying turning broad into italic nibs. Besides the fact that every nib is turning out to have it's own characteristics, or "feel", the best ones have not been always the smoothest.

 

So, this seems to hold true for others.

Edited October 16, 2012 by penned_in

[Bo Bo Olson]

Ytland +1

 

Check your nib tip of your vintage pen with a 10-12 X loupe it sounds like it's slightly out of alignment.

Easy to fix.

 

I have a few, 'butter smooth' nibs, that I seldom use.

 

I have many smooth enough and a couple that are a bit too toothy for rougher linen effect, or laid papers.

It could be those are narrow nibs too. Could well be I need much better paper too.

 

IMO, a pen should be 'smooth', and not scratchy. There is where the problem of tooth & feedback come into play. One's toothy is another's scratchy. The more experience one has the easier it is to tell the difference between tooth and scratchy.

 

To some and I can not say just newer users, but is often the case(I think)don't like or understand a bit of tooth is good on certain papers.

 

When one is first starting out, of course one wants the 'butter smooth', it is so much nicer than plowing the south forty with out a mule; like when using a ball point.

 

Over the few years I've been here, I've read a good number of times where one started out with the absolute, 'butter smooth' is everything, to changing their minds that some times a tad of tooth, makes writing more pleasant; giving feedback.

 

In I was buying cheap, vintage pens, I'd not expected 'butter smooth'. I had to learn of micro-corrosion of the 'iridium' of pens that sat in a drawer for one or two generations, and being cheap, used the brown paper bag trick; the least abrasive way of smoothing up a nib....not though for making a nib 'butter smooth'.

 

In that I had old pre'66 German pens with slight 'iridium' tipping...as I discovered later, so designed. I did not want to grind away the layer of 'iridium'.

 

In that most did not have the big American bump on the bottom of the nib, I looked for smooth enough. These nibs were semi-flex, so smooth enough was good enough.

 

I did not want to over grind and ruin the nib tip angle or the 'sharp' line those vintage nibs gave compared to a modern Pelikan 605. (Blobby 1/2 a width wider than vintage.)

 

It may take a year or two; and a good handful of pens, but I think most drift away from butter smooth.

Especially those who love extra narrow nibs, because butter smooth and a XXF, would be hard to find.

 

I wonder how many vintage nibs are ruined by some one new, grabbing micro-mesh, and smoothing away the sharpness of vintage nibs; in that grinding can if one don't take a lot of care, make the nib tip wider, ruin the writing angle and so on.

I think one should try the brown paper bag trick before grabbing micro mesh. Not every nib needs to be butter smooth, when smooth enough ... is enough.

 

IMO a nib should be smooth enough, for the paper it is being used on. On slick Clairefontain paper butter smooth is too much. On some laid papers, perhaps not.

[XiaoMG]

All other things being equal, I will always prefer the nib that most feels like a greased ball bearing, with as little tactile feedback as possible. If it makes my hand slide off the paper and across the table into the lap of the person sitting there, so be it.

[de_pen_dent]

My perfect level of smoothness is akin to skating on freshly-Zambonied ice - smooth, minimal resistance, but you can feel the nib moving on the paper.

 

There definitely is something called "too smooth", as far as I am concerned.

[Paddler]

People tend to put "scratchiness", "tooth", "feedback", "drag", "slipperyness" and "smoothness" on the same continuum. It ain't necessarily so.

Scratchiness is caused by a sharp edge or corner on the nib that scrapes the surface of the paper. Most people dislike this form of feedback. As a sharp edge is ground away, a nib will progress from scratchy to toothy.

Tooth is caused by the nib geometry following the texture of the paper. Finer nibs and coarser paper make for more tooth. Some people prefer this form of feedback over scratchiness. Grinding away the tooth makes a nib smooth.

Drag is caused by friction between the paper and the nib. A nib can be very smooth and still have a lot of drag. Drag is shown by nibs with coarse scratches on the writing surface and/or by a lack of ink lubricity. As coarse scratches are polished away, a nib becomes slippery. Polished to a mirror-like surface a nib can drag again. Glass nibs that have been fire polished tend to have excessive drag. Drag is the least objectionable form of feedback.

[stefanv]

Paddler, I like your definitions above. It articulates what I've been thinking for a while, that a bit of drag is desirable (completely aside from the fact that a too-smooth nib won't distribute ink, as Richard Binder has said).

 

I have an old Lamy 25P that is the perfect example. It is not scratchy or toothy; there is merely a bit of drag as it moves across the paper, sort of the same feeling you'd get writing with a soft blunt pencil.

 

I've found that writing with a nib that's too smooth (slippery) is like walking on ice in shoes that have no tread.

[Movis]

I personally like smooth, with some feedback. For me, if it's super slick I lose control of my point. I also mainly use EF/F nibs, and that means I won't get the butter on ice feel of a smooth B on Clairefontaine. I find the feel of my Sailor 1911 MF on Clairefontaine about the smoothest I want, and the feel of my Sheaffer Prelude F on Moleskine to be about the toothiest I want. That's subjective, but it's what I've discovered.

[aawhite]

My hand writing is better (not that it is any good) when the nib has some feedback; the type generated by an Aurora Optima broad nib.

Edited October 16, 2012 by aawhite

[Paddler]

Paddler, I like your definitions above. It articulates what I've been thinking for a while, that a bit of drag is desirable (completely aside from the fact that a too-smooth nib won't distribute ink, as Richard Binder has said).

 

I have an old Lamy 25P that is the perfect example. It is not scratchy or toothy; there is merely a bit of drag as it moves across the paper, sort of the same feeling you'd get writing with a soft blunt pencil.

 

I've found that writing with a nib that's too smooth (slippery) is like walking on ice in shoes that have no tread.

I put all of that together from my experience with dip pen nibs. I sometimes use homemade walnut ink. The stuff is corrosive to iron and carbon steel. That means that, after about a day's writing, the nib's point will be worn down to sharp edges and pointy places. Being the tightwad that I am, I learned to regrind the points rather than use new nibs. It took patience and a microscope to find out how to do it properly. Now, however, it is a chore that is about as interesting as sharpening a plane iron.

[myn]

Paddler awesome description. I'm still very new to the fountain pen world and I really appreciate learning the right way to express what I mean. I know I like smooth but I also know that my idea of smooth means I have feedback. Each of my pens makes a very distinctive sound (song) as it's nib moves across the paper - not scratchy, just a nice indication that the nib is connecting as it should with the paper.

[tonybelding]

Nobody likes a "scratchy" nib that snags the paper surface like a hangnail.

 

However, the amount of friction desired is a personal preference. Some prefer super-smooth nibs, others prefer a bit of pencil-like "feedback" when they write. I think the majority of us lean towards wanting smoothness (and I generally do), but it's not a universal sentiment.

[stuartk]

I like smooth nibs, but I also sometimes like a pen with a slight amount of "tooth."

 

I think it depends on the pen, the width and type of nib, the ink being used, the paper being used, and finally the person using the pen. You just have to try things out for yourself and see what you like.

[Kelly G]

People tend to put "scratchiness", "tooth", "feedback", "drag", "slipperyness" and "smoothness" on the same continuum. It ain't necessarily so.

Scratchiness is caused by a sharp edge or corner on the nib that scrapes the surface of the paper. Most people dislike this form of feedback. As a sharp edge is ground away, a nib will progress from scratchy to toothy.

Tooth is caused by the nib geometry following the texture of the paper. Finer nibs and coarser paper make for more tooth. Some people prefer this form of feedback over scratchiness. Grinding away the tooth makes a nib smooth.

Drag is caused by friction between the paper and the nib. A nib can be very smooth and still have a lot of drag. Drag is shown by nibs with coarse scratches on the writing surface and/or by a lack of ink lubricity. As coarse scratches are polished away, a nib becomes slippery. Polished to a mirror-like surface a nib can drag again. Glass nibs that have been fire polished tend to have excessive drag. Drag is the least objectionable form of feedback.

+1

 

Good definitions and clarifications. I prefer some drag, thus tactile feedback. If the nib is not damaged or out of alignment, paper choice seems to have a great deal to contribute to the equation.

[ethernautrix]

However, the amount of friction desired is a personal preference. Some prefer super-smooth nibs, others prefer a bit of pencil-like "feedback" when they write. I think the majority of us lean towards wanting smoothness (and I generally do), but it's not a universal sentiment.

 

Exactly.

 

I like "a bit of pencil-like 'feedback.'" I would not expect everyone to agree that it is the best just because I think so.

Edited October 17, 2012 by ethernautrix