Sheaffer Ring Top

[Scrawler]

I have a few ring top pens. They are all quite small, less than 4 inches long and seem to have been intended to be used by ladies and hung from a ribbon around the neck. This pen on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Sheaffer-Balance-Lifetime-Fountain-Pen-Oversize-Ring-Top-/170918369290?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27cb87580a has me a little intrigued. It seems to be a full size pen, and the shape suggests a mans pen. However it has a ring top that looks like it is intended to be worn around the neck on a ribbon or chain. If I saw this pen with a pocket clip, I would think, OK it's a mans pen and intended to go in a suit or shirt pocket and think nothing more of it. But this is sufficiently unusual that I thought I would seek other opinions on it.

[Roger W.]

I have a few ring top pens. They are all quite small, less than 4 inches long and seem to have been intended to be used by ladies and hung from a ribbon around the neck. This pen on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Sheaffer-Balance-Lifetime-Fountain-Pen-Oversize-Ring-Top-/170918369290?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27cb87580a has me a little intrigued. It seems to be a full size pen, and the shape suggests a mans pen. However it has a ring top that looks like it is intended to be worn around the neck on a ribbon or chain. If I saw this pen with a pocket clip, I would think, OK it's a mans pen and intended to go in a suit or shirt pocket and think nothing more of it. But this is sufficiently unusual that I thought I would seek other opinions on it.

 

Ringtops early in 1900 seem to have been both vest pens and ladies pens. As we get to the 1930's the ringtop advertising wholly goes over to ladies pens. This makes sense - I should expose it elsewhere - as pocket watches had faded to a huge degree as wristwatches were widely adopted after WWI. Therefore, you have some massively long ringtops for ladies to hang round their necks assuming in some cases they would want an otherwise large pen to write with. Sheaffer certainly had some long ringtops by this period. Ringtops diminish to be used by anyone by the late 1930's.

 

Roger W.

[Scrawler]

 

 

Ringtops early in 1900 seem to have been both vest pens and ladies pens. As we get to the 1930's the ringtop advertising wholly goes over to ladies pens. This makes sense - I should expose it elsewhere - as pocket watches had faded to a huge degree as wristwatches were widely adopted after WWI. Therefore, you have some massively long ringtops for ladies to hang round their necks assuming in some cases they would want an otherwise large pen to write with. Sheaffer certainly had some long ringtops by this period. Ringtops diminish to be used by anyone by the late 1930's.

 

Roger W.

I have watched quite a bit of cinema from the 1930's, and cinema representing that period. I have only ever seen representations of women wearing smallish pens on ribbons or chains around their neck. On another thread somewhere, someone mentioned that men did the same and that they also hung their pens from a watch chain. This particular pen is much too large, in my opinion, to have been in a waistcoat pocket. Do you by any chance know of contemporary adverts or images that show men using ring top fountain pens.

[jar]

It may be a mismatch as well, long body and ring top cap, but IIRC the newest Holmes movie shows Dr. Moriarty using a long ringtop pen.

[Scrawler]

It may be a mismatch as well, long body and ring top cap, but IIRC the newest Holmes movie shows Dr. Moriarty using a long ringtop pen.

Is that the Robert Downey Jr movie or the Benedict Cumberbatch one? I will try to get a copy and watch. Would it not be an anachronism in both of those versions?

[jar]

It may be a mismatch as well, long body and ring top cap, but IIRC the newest Holmes movie shows Dr. Moriarty using a long ringtop pen.

Is that the Robert Downey Jr movie or the Benedict Cumberbatch one? I will try to get a copy and watch. Would it not be an anachronism in both of those versions?

 

I have absolutely no idea since I'd be unlikely to even know the difference between those two individuals. Sorry, but I have not seen either of the movies, only a shot of the Dr. Moriarty character's hand holding the pen. It definitely had a ringtop though.

[Ernst Bitterman]

The Cumberbatch version's Moriarity doesn't use pens at all; he apparently can make an iPhone commit any outrage.

 

But on topic... that does seem strangely long for a vest pen. The longest ring-top I've got is a Sheaffer 74SR, which at 9.8cm (about 4") is long enough to use uncapped, but in no danger of wedging in a vest pocket. HOWEVER, Sheaffer did get up to some funny tricks, and without a catalogue on hand to point to the item or the space such a thing would appear in I'd be hesitant to commit to a position.

[pen2paper]

Is there a Sheaffer specific site similar to Tony's Parker site which includes catalogs?

 

My single pen purchase at the MI show was a modest celluloid ladies ringtop, with the same type connector.

There's a nice solid feel, even in a pen of this small size.

 

 

[jar]

Is there a Sheaffer specific site similar to Tony's Parker site which includes catalogs?

 

My single pen purchase at the MI show was a modest celluloid ladies ringtop, with the same type connector.

There's a nice solid feel, even in a pen of this small size.

 

 

 

Not yet but we be working on it. Unfortunately the material is still mostly uncatalogued and it will be a long time coming.

[pen2paper]

Is there a Sheaffer specific site similar to Tony's Parker site which includes catalogs?

 

My single pen purchase at the MI show was a modest celluloid ladies ringtop, with the same type connector.

There's a nice solid feel, even in a pen of this small size.

 

 

 

Not yet but we be working on it. Unfortunately the material is still mostly uncatalogued and it will be a long time coming.

Thanks jar! from the Gallery was able to discern my 4 1/4" rt is Green Mottled celluloid, Balance shape.

No white dot, lever filler. Sheaffer 5-30 nib. Made in USA.

 

Also in the gallery were full sized rt's in black.

 

 

 

[Roger W.]

Is there a Sheaffer specific site similar to Tony's Parker site which includes catalogs?

 

My single pen purchase at the MI show was a modest celluloid ladies ringtop, with the same type connector.

There's a nice solid feel, even in a pen of this small size.

 

 

 

Not yet but we be working on it. Unfortunately the material is still mostly uncatalogued and it will be a long time coming.

Thanks jar! from the Gallery was able to discern my 4 1/4" rt is Green Mottled celluloid, Balance shape.

No white dot, lever filler. Sheaffer 5-30 nib. Made in USA.

 

Also in the gallery were full sized rt's in black.

 

Big Sheaffer ringtops are uncommon but, were quite available in the 1930 catalog. These are the 74TR class pen (whether black, jade, or black and pearl). They are full sized in length and should be about 5.25" closed.

 

Roger W.

[Scrawler]

Is there a Sheaffer specific site similar to Tony's Parker site which includes catalogs?

 

My single pen purchase at the MI show was a modest celluloid ladies ringtop, with the same type connector.

There's a nice solid feel, even in a pen of this small size.

 

 

 

Not yet but we be working on it. Unfortunately the material is still mostly uncatalogued and it will be a long time coming.

Thanks for this link. Will you also be covering Sheaffers that were offered under the Craig name to avoid the lifetime warrantee? I have just restored a Craig ringtop and it is tiny compared to this one.

[Roger W.]

Is there a Sheaffer specific site similar to Tony's Parker site which includes catalogs?

 

My single pen purchase at the MI show was a modest celluloid ladies ringtop, with the same type connector.

There's a nice solid feel, even in a pen of this small size.

 

 

 

Not yet but we be working on it. Unfortunately the material is still mostly uncatalogued and it will be a long time coming.

Thanks for this link. Will you also be covering Sheaffers that were offered under the Craig name to avoid the lifetime warrantee? I have just restored a Craig ringtop and it is tiny compared to this one.

 

Craig's weren't made to avoid the lifetime guarantee. Sheaffer made plenty of pens in the regular line that weren't lifetime. Craig's were made as an inexpensive level pen that was still made by Sheaffer in a market that they would otherwise not compete.

 

Roger W.

[Scrawler]

I believe this pen may be the item marked 36 T1 at the top of image 4 in the gallery in the link jar gave.

[Scrawler]

Is there a Sheaffer specific site similar to Tony's Parker site which includes catalogs?

 

My single pen purchase at the MI show was a modest celluloid ladies ringtop, with the same type connector.

There's a nice solid feel, even in a pen of this small size.

 

 

 

Not yet but we be working on it. Unfortunately the material is still mostly uncatalogued and it will be a long time coming.

Thanks for this link. Will you also be covering Sheaffers that were offered under the Craig name to avoid the lifetime warrantee? I have just restored a Craig ringtop and it is tiny compared to this one.

 

Craig's weren't made to avoid the lifetime guarantee. Sheaffer made plenty of pens in the regular line that weren't lifetime. Craig's were made as an inexpensive level pen that was still made by Sheaffer in a market that they would otherwise not compete.

 

Roger W.

Somewhere I read that the way they were able to offer these pens at a lower price because they knew they would not be seeing them back for extended warantee issues, by offering them with a different name. I get the impression that Craig were every bit as good as the pens that carried the Sheaffer name.

[kirchh]

Is there a Sheaffer specific site similar to Tony's Parker site which includes catalogs?

 

My single pen purchase at the MI show was a modest celluloid ladies ringtop, with the same type connector.

There's a nice solid feel, even in a pen of this small size.

 

 

 

Not yet but we be working on it. Unfortunately the material is still mostly uncatalogued and it will be a long time coming.

Thanks for this link. Will you also be covering Sheaffers that were offered under the Craig name to avoid the lifetime warrantee? I have just restored a Craig ringtop and it is tiny compared to this one.

 

Craig's weren't made to avoid the lifetime guarantee. Sheaffer made plenty of pens in the regular line that weren't lifetime. Craig's were made as an inexpensive level pen that was still made by Sheaffer in a market that they would otherwise not compete.

 

Roger W.

Somewhere I read that the way they were able to offer these pens at a lower price because they knew they would not be seeing them back for extended warantee issues, by offering them with a different name. I get the impression that Craig were every bit as good as the pens that carried the Sheaffer name.

"Somewhere I read ..." -- unfortunately, there is a great deal of misinformation in our hobby, and this is one of the reasons why. I wouldn't rely on representations unless you at least can identify who made them and on what basis (and the basis is sensible). A good deal of this misinformation is based on one person's guess or speculation (or error) that then becomes repeated, with the result that it can be heard from multiple parties which gives the illusion of it being a widely-held evidence-based belief. But time and again, we learn just how baseless these "facts" really are.

 

I will note that Craigs are certainly not as good as Sheaffer-marked pens in several respects, which allowed them to be sold for less and not to compete with Sheaffers proper.

 

--Daniel

[Scrawler]

 

"Somewhere I read ..." -- unfortunately, there is a great deal of misinformation in our hobby, and this is one of the reasons why. I wouldn't rely on representations unless you at least can identify who made them and on what basis (and the basis is sensible). A good deal of this misinformation is based on one person's guess or speculation (or error) that then becomes repeated, with the result that it can be heard from multiple parties which gives the illusion of it being a widely-held evidence-based belief. But time and again, we learn just how baseless these "facts" really are.

 

I will note that Craigs are certainly not as good as Sheaffer-marked pens in several respects, which allowed them to be sold for less and not to compete with Sheaffers proper.

 

--Daniel

Yes, you are right. Thanks for correcting this. One of the problems with reading so much and in a disjointed way, is that one remembers reading, but of course never takes notes. I should not have mentioned it, because it has the potential to derail this thread. I am actually much more interested in the real Sheaffer mentioned originally.

[jar]

Is there a Sheaffer specific site similar to Tony's Parker site which includes catalogs?

 

My single pen purchase at the MI show was a modest celluloid ladies ringtop, with the same type connector.

There's a nice solid feel, even in a pen of this small size.

 

 

 

Not yet but we be working on it. Unfortunately the material is still mostly uncatalogued and it will be a long time coming.

Thanks for this link. Will you also be covering Sheaffers that were offered under the Craig name to avoid the lifetime warrantee? I have just restored a Craig ringtop and it is tiny compared to this one.

 

The problem is that there is a lot of information and almost all of it is in printed form and not yet cataloged and the Museum is a totally volunteer effort with almost no funds.

 

It would be wonderful to scan just the printed ads, but I fear it will be a long term job.

 

As additional information is made available I'll incorporate it into the website.

 

So if anyone has digital copies of ads, catalogs, price sheets, manuals that they could contribute please let me know.

[Scrawler]

Well it seems that there is some interest in the fashions of ring top pens in this old thread

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/128236-1920s-did-gentlemen-ever-wear-pens-on-chains/page__view__findpost__p__1269765

 

There is mention of photos of fashions. No point necroposting that thread because all the photos are gone. I would like to be able to see photos of the fashion for using and wearing ring top pens.

 

I have alot of victorian, ediwardian people pics.. just found one where I do think the lady is wearing a similar ribbon to the one I have, the item attached to the end of her ribbon is tightly tucked in her jacket pocket.. generally the chain, ribbon part was seen, not the fob, pen, gadget... I will try to find the pic again, and post it in picasa for you//may take a day or two, mondays get hectic.