Is A "fine Stub" Possible?

[Pfhorrest]

Yes! Anyone who works with nibs can do this for you. I own two pens with 'fine stubs'.

[sallywally]

I had a Cross Solo F (equivalent to Japanese EF, I think) ground to cursive italic by the nibmistress at Pendemonium.com. I like it very much. The line variation is small, of course, but adds character to my writing. As a bonus, she also adjusted the flow.

 

For F or EF nibs you might be happier with cursive italic than italic or stub as CI would be less likely to hook into the paper.

 

Perhaps you can find someone in Australia who does good work. If not, consult Pendemonium.com in Iowa, USA. Prices are moderate and turnaround time is reasonable. Usual disclaimer.

I'm kind of an XX fine person. I have a Sailor with the Saibi Togi nib and three Nakaya with XXF nibs. I can't even use the Namiki XF nibs because they're too large.

 

I have a number of vintage pens with very, very fine nibs - the old Sheaffer XF nibs are often quite XF, as are many vintage Watermans. But I know of no current pens that run as fine as the Japanese.

 

So I can't imagine that any Western nib, especially a fine,could be finer than a Japanese XF. I don't have a Cross fountain pen, so I can't guarantee it, but I've also never heard this before on FPN and there have been many discussions of ultra-fine nibs.

 

Just wondering....

[XiaoMG]

I've not used him yet, but I believe Jack of Aussie Pen Repair could probably do the job if I wanted.

I am thinking of sending a nib his way for a similar operation.

[XiaoMG]

So I can't imagine that any Western nib, especially a fine,could be finer than a Japanese XF. I don't have a Cross fountain pen, so I can't guarantee it, but I've also never heard this before on FPN and there have been many discussions of ultra-fine nibs.

 

Just wondering....

Cross Solo's nib is a Pilot nib, IIRC. It should be typical of Pilot's steel fines.

[parnesh]

I was using a TWSBI 540 1.1 stub as one of my daily writers. It was filled with pelikan 4001 blue-black and it was actually usable on cheap paper. My preference too is for finer nibs but more western fines to fine-mediums (this changes with companies though, I just got a Pelikan M215 Medium and it is great however a Lamy safari M is too wide) but the line variation on the TWSBI was too good to ignore. However, I changed inks on the pen last week too Iroshizuku Kon-Peki, now it's too wet for even good paper. Therefore you might want to consider a different ink for a wider nib.

 

Also, I am contemplating getting the M215 ground into a cursive Italic by Jack from Aussie Pen Repair, if I go through with this, I can post wiring samples to give you an idea of what a 0.7-0.8 cursive italic writes like with a Pelikan nib.

 

 

I've recently found myself with an urge to try a stub or cursive italic at some point. I like the idea of having a little variation to the lines in my writing, but having thought about it a little I think I might have a problem. I want a Fine nib in a style that is, by definition, not really Fine.

 

A little background

I like fine nibs (Pilot F nibs are my gold standard for size) and I both have small writing and tend to need to use cheap paper, so nibs that are much bigger than Japanese F's aren't really suitable for me at this stage because they either bleed/feather too much on the paper or because my writing loses definition with the wider nib. For example, I've a Shaeffer Imperial II from the 60s with an F nib, and it's a little too wide for me.

 

The (possible) problem

Given the above, is it possible to get a stub or cursive italic that is wide enough to make a difference without ending up with a pen that writes too wet and/or wide for me to use as a regular writer on cheap paper and without needing to scale up my writing?

 

I've seen reference to a 0.7mm stub or CI from time to time, but given what I know of my writing I think that would be too big for me to be happy with.

 

I'm hoping some of you out there might have some experience with narrow stub and/or cursive italic nibs and can shed some light on whether I'm chasing a mythical non-existent creature.

 

Thanks

[peterpen53]

Conway Stewart does a lovely IF nib stock.

 

Can I assume that IF = Italic Fine?

 

Yes, you can.

 

I just had a quick look at their site and wasn't able to locate any info nibs, but their pens look to be a long way outside my price range anyway

 

There is a nib chart pinned in the Conway Stewart forum.

[Bigeddie]

So I can't imagine that any Western nib, especially a fine,could be finer than a Japanese XF. I don't have a Cross fountain pen, so I can't guarantee it, but I've also never heard this before on FPN and there have been many discussions of ultra-fine nibs.

 

Just wondering....

Cross Solo's nib is a Pilot nib, IIRC. It should be typical of Pilot's steel fines.

 

Cross Verve nibs are Pilot 18k, very underrated pens going for about 50%-70% less than the original RPP on ebay recently.

[wyldphyre]

I was using a TWSBI 540 1.1 stub as one of my daily writers. It was filled with pelikan 4001 blue-black and it was actually usable on cheap paper. My preference too is for finer nibs but more western fines to fine-mediums (this changes with companies though, I just got a Pelikan M215 Medium and it is great however a Lamy safari M is too wide) but the line variation on the TWSBI was too good to ignore. However, I changed inks on the pen last week too Iroshizuku Kon-Peki, now it's too wet for even good paper. Therefore you might want to consider a different ink for a wider nib.

 

I have plans to get a TWSBI at some stage, but I plan to get a regular EF nib on. So far Pelikans haven't done anything for me so no plans to get one of those. Your experience with Kon-Peki being too wet is interesting, as that is one of the inks I would likely end up using. I think it's tied for first place with J Herbin Bleu Pervanche as my favourite blue currently.

 

Also, I am contemplating getting the M215 ground into a cursive Italic by Jack from Aussie Pen Repair, if I go through with this, I can post wiring samples to give you an idea of what a 0.7-0.8 cursive italic writes like with a Pelikan nib.

 

Some samples would be great if you have the opportunity. Thanks.

[Chrissy]

I am having a problem getting used to the fabulous Bexley America the Beautiful with a 1.1mm stub that I bought on here. I really love the pen and the way it writes quite wet, but I think I would prefer a slightly finer line.

 

When we talk about the 1.1mm or the 0.7mm or 0.4mm, I assume we are talking about the line width rather than the nib tip width.

 

Is there any correlation between the nib tip width and the width of the line it draws? If so then would it be the case that a 1.1mm nib could reasonably easily become a .7mm nib for example? Or is the whole thing much more complicated that that?

[parnesh]

Well there is a direct correlation between nib width and line width. Although it depends on many factors, my simple understanding of this is that the nib width (cut across tines) is related to downstroke width and tipping "depth" is related to horizontal stroke width. For example many stub nibs are untipped (including my TWSBI).

 

A 1.1 "could" be ground into a 0.7 but I suspect it will depend on the nib and I don't think it will be reasonably easy. Depends on how extreme the grind is.

 

I am having a problem getting used to the fabulous Bexley America the Beautiful with a 1.1mm stub that I bought on here. I really love the pen and the way it writes quite wet, but I think I would prefer a slightly finer line.

 

When we talk about the 1.1mm or the 0.7mm or 0.4mm, I assume we are talking about the line width rather than the nib tip width.

 

Is there any correlation between the nib tip width and the width of the line it draws? If so then would it be the case that a 1.1mm nib could reasonably easily become a .7mm nib for example? Or is the whole thing much more complicated that that?

[82Greg]

Am I crazy?

Thanks

 

If you are on FPN and addicted to pens, yes! We all are just a little! Isn't it fun?

[wyldphyre]

Am I crazy?

Thanks

 

If you are on FPN and addicted to pens, yes! We all are just a little! Isn't it fun?

 

Absolutely. Of the various types of crazy you can be, this one isn't all that bad :roflmho:

[parnesh]

Thats what I keep telling my better half. There are many ways of spending my time and money (lots more in fact) that are also infinitely more harmful.

 

Luckily for me, she likes fountain pens as well. She just got a Visconti Homo Sapiens as a present which means I get to get a few more pens, custom grinds and ink before she "questions" my "need" to have these!

 

Am I crazy?

Thanks

 

If you are on FPN and addicted to pens, yes! We all are just a little! Isn't it fun?

 

Absolutely. Of the various types of crazy you can be, this one isn't all that bad :roflmho:

[chiaroscuro]

Behold!

 

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7199/6832643312_83497dd275.jpg

M405 Binder 0.4mm CI by Bigeddie100, on Flickr

 

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7039/6978767301_a3b19106be.jpg

M405 / M400 Factory M v Binder CI by Bigeddie100, on Flickr

 

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7180/6832641962_f410e010f4.jpg

IMG_0881 by Bigeddie100, on Flickr

 

I have since tracked down the little nibarama card that came with it, it is described as a 0.4mm italic stub rather than a cursive italic nib. It's very satisfying and lovely. I hope that helps

 

Awesome! I'm new to FPs and this is also something I wondered about. I got a 78G with the stub nib (marked "B") and thought "this is so cool, I wonder if there are pens out there with this kind of variation but in a size more practical for daily use." I'm glad to know these are out there!

[knitknitfrog]

If you are familliar with mechanical pencils, particularly 0.5 mm you might have noticed that if the lead is worn on one side you can get a chiseled tip which will write italic style.

Even with a 0.5 mm pencil you can see line variation, maybe work a 0.5 mm pencil into a chisel to see for your self. Drag it over rough paper or card card at an angle until you create a temporary italic style end.

I have two binderized CI nibs, one 0.7 and one 0.5mm, the smaller is newer and I am still accommodating its edges, I have a vintage fine stub which is simillar to the 0.7mm on a Sheaffer, and it is softer with a more rounded feel but there is still plenty of line variation.

Ink is a big issue, a wet ink and I feel like I just have a medium with any of these pens, a drier ink and I get and see more variation.

Ditto paper, smooth paper and I see crisp variation, softer paper and I get a fuzzy line

I write what i consider is small, easily with lower case/miniscules 4mm or smaller, often more like 3 mm and all those nibs are fine at that size.

Edited September 25, 2012 by knitknitfrog

[lemanfan]

One tip can be to check out the Italix Parson'ss Essential from MrPen. They do come with a "fine italic" nib option these days. Claims to be 0,65 mm on the broad stroke.

 

I love mine.

[Ytland]

Gday all!

 

I'm a little late to this thread, but a couple of people on this thread have inquired backchannel about XXF stubs recently, so here's a sample of one that I've ground for my personal use on a recently purchased Homo Sapiens (now *that's* a wicked pen!). For daily use I require something smooth that can be whipped around on the paper without any concern of skipping, as well as some line variation to make things a little interesting. The effect isn't as pronounced for fine stubs as it is for eg a medium stub, but when you look at a page of writing with a fine stub compared to a regular round fine nib, the difference is definitely there. I've tried to capture a little of this in the following pics, but I don't think it does it justice.

More line variation could be achieved at the expense of smoothness, as you most probably all already know

 

Without any further ado... (sorry, no nib closeups, my usual camera is on the Fritz. These are taken using my phone)

 

 

The Homo Sapiens with Stub XXF. Smooooth! My daily writer.

 

 

 

A comparison of the stub (top line) with a round XXF. Like I said, the difference isn't stark on the small scale, but it's there. Especially when you look at the cross-hashing.

 

 

A little showing off... (couldn't resist... )

 

 

Hope this helps!

 

Regards

Jack

 

 

EDIT: Adjusted image contrast

Edited September 27, 2012 by Ytland

[wyldphyre]

 

Hope this helps!

 

 

Thanks for the samples Jack. You can never have too many if them when trying to discuss nib widths

[Tberry010]

You can turn a Pilot F nib into a CI with just a little practice. There are a number of references to how to do it located here and on the web.Try it on a few really inexpensive nibs then try it on a Pilot and you might be pleasantly surprised.

But, as others have pointed out the amount of variation will be low so make sure your expectations are realistic.

Good luck.

[h3hound]

i am working on making an old Cross into a daily fine stub. its progressing and still inwork.

 

here is a link to some simple steps to home-grind: glenns pens - grind your own