Question About Arm Vs. Finger Muscle Movements

June 21, 2012

I think all this is starting to make more sense.
I'm going to need to read through these posts a few more times, digest it a bit and then put it to practice.

It sure beats what I thought "whole arm" writing was. Here is what I was trying to do:
Only pinkie finger touching paper. Elbow hiked up so arm doesn't touch desk. Movement from shoulder.
No wonder my arm has been so sore!

I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but YouTube videos showing how to form calligraphic letters seldom show anything but the nib and pen, never the arm. Trying to learn proper form from words and the occasional simple sketch can be difficult.

I was trying to do the same thing. A few videos demonstrating basic position and technique could be quite helpful for us beginners.

June 21, 2012

I think all this is starting to make more sense.
I'm going to need to read through these posts a few more times, digest it a bit and then put it to practice.

It sure beats what I thought "whole arm" writing was. Here is what I was trying to do:
Only pinkie finger touching paper. Elbow hiked up so arm doesn't touch desk. Movement from shoulder.
No wonder my arm has been so sore!

I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but YouTube videos showing how to form calligraphic letters seldom show anything but the nib and pen, never the arm. Trying to learn proper form from words and the occasional simple sketch can be difficult.

I was trying to do the same thing. A few videos demonstrating basic position and technique could be quite helpful for us beginners.

Here are some brief videos.

http://www.iampeth.com/videos.php

and click on the Del Tysdal demonstrates OP technique.

Ornamental Penmanship or OP requires the large pen movements with the somewhat limited finger movement. Still, notice where Mr. Tysdal's arm is: resting lightly on the table. Also, for general positioning, look at the beginning of the first Michael Sull video (... Penmanship I) and the beginning of the 2nd John DeCollibus video (Ornamental Penmanship). All show the arm on the table. How much pressure there is on the arm is open to question, but I believe not very much. (Observe how easily Del Tysdal moves his hand.) There's probably just enough pressure to stabilize the arm in a plane parallel to the desk. These three gentlemen are about as good as it gets, so I think part of our question is answered.

June 21, 2012

Ornamental Penmanship or OP requires the large pen movements with the somewhat limited finger movement. Still, notice where Mr. Tysdal's arm is: resting lightly on the table. Also, for general positioning, look at the beginning of the first Michael Sull video (... Penmanship I) and the beginning of the 2nd John DeCollibus video (Ornamental Penmanship). All show the arm on the table. How much pressure there is on the arm is open to question, but I believe not very much. (Observe how easily Del Tysdal moves his hand.) There's probably just enough pressure to stabilize the arm in a plane parallel to the desk. These three gentlemen are about as good as it gets, so I think part of our question is answered.

It's significant that Michael Sull uses the hand and fingers only, with no muscular (forearm) movement - see the start of his first video.

It just shows that there's no definitive answer to all of this. In the end, how it looks on paper is all that really matters.

Ken

Edited June 21, 2012 by caliken

June 21, 2012

Ornamental Penmanship or OP requires the large pen movements with the somewhat limited finger movement. Still, notice where Mr. Tysdal's arm is: resting lightly on the table. Also, for general positioning, look at the beginning of the first Michael Sull video (... Penmanship I) and the beginning of the 2nd John DeCollibus video (Ornamental Penmanship). All show the arm on the table. How much pressure there is on the arm is open to question, but I believe not very much. (Observe how easily Del Tysdal moves his hand.) There's probably just enough pressure to stabilize the arm in a plane parallel to the desk. These three gentlemen are about as good as it gets, so I think part of our question is answered.

It's significant that Michael Sull uses the hand and fingers only, with no muscular (forearm) movement - see the start of his first video.

I thought so too, the first time I saw the video (I have the entire set of lessons, not just this clip), but appearances and perceptions can be misleading. While we see that Mr. Sull's fingers are very active (compared to Mssrs. DeCollibus or Tysdal), we don't really see what's happening up his sleeve, as it were. We do not know affirmatively that the shoulder girdle is involved or not. I should be pointed out, however, that Mr. Sull advises one not write bare-armed, "the slightest perspiration can cause the fore-arm to stick on the paper surface, resulting in brief jerking motions of the arm on occasion." From this, it should be obvious that regardless of what one believes one sees in a video, Mr. Sull expects the arm to contribute to the movement of the pen point.

Added: It should be noted that what we see in this and most videos on the internet is really OP, ornamental penmanship, not really handwriting. Monoline Spencerian and all the other business hands are 'written in haste', not this deliberately. Only the Del Tysdal's demonstration is performed at something akin to handwriting speed.

A personal observation: I find it exceeding difficult (effectively impossible) to create a hairline thin pull stroke with a very flexible nib (e.g., Hunt 101) using just my fingers. In fact, the less active my fingers are the more consistently fine the line.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Mickey

February 9, 2013

Hello every one, Im new here and I been practicing cursive for three months.I wanted to learn the palmer method but I don't know if I'm using the right hand movement.please help .I looked all over youtube for a video for hand movement, but I can't find any.If someone who has learned the hand movement would upload a video to youtube I would be very grateful.Thank you very much.