Help A Rookie - Which Pen For Bad Paper?

[withamazement]

Mods - feel free to move this if this isn't the applicable forum. I won't be offended.

 

Hello all,

 

First - introductions. I am new to the FP world. I am a first-year high school history teacher and after grading hundreds and hundreds of essays with less-than stellar pens/markers/whatever I could find, I decided to look for a solution to make my grading a bit less mundane and a little less painful. After some research, I discovered fountain pens could potentially solve my woes. They are fun to write with and take no force to make a line. Plus, the kids have complained about my bad handwriting in the past, and I find writing with an FP slows me down enough that the students can actually read my handwriting (which is, after all, ultimately the point of spending time writing comments).

 

Next - my FP history. I initially had a medium Lamy Safari with a converter and was grading in Diamine Orange. Woe is me - alas, that one disappeared after too rowdy a weekend with some friends. To replace it, I decided to go big and I splurged on a fine Lamy 2000 (as I found the medium Safari bled profusely on the very poor copy paper our school uses, and I thought the fine might remedy this). I also picked up some Noodler's Bulletproof Black ink because I heard it was well-behaved on bad paper. I found the Lamy 2000 nib to be very scratchy though, and for a $140 pen, I decided to accept nothing but perfection. I returned the Lamy, kept the ink, and after so much deliberation (I was between another Lamy 2000, a Pelikan m150/m200, Noodler's Ahab, Lamy Safari, Lamy Studio, TWSBI 540), I picked up a fine TWSBI 540 Diamond due to the stellar comments on both here and reddit's r/fountainpens, deciding that if one of my students happen to walk off with my pen, it would be less of a huge loss. I also picked up some more inks - Schaeffer Skrip Red, Private Reserve Sherwood Green, Pelikan 4001 Violet, and Parker Quink Blue-Black. I've got the bug - bad.

 

Finally - my problem. My school has TERRIBLE copy paper, which I print all of the students' worksheets, readings, and assignments on (and eventually, write on during grading). I'm talking the cheapest, worst-quality paper in existence. It's not quite as bad as writing on tissue paper, but it's darn-well close. Nearly everything bleeds/feathers, even Noodler's Black. The Noodler's Black in the Lamy 2000 made it almost acceptable, but not quite. With the TWSBI 540, I tried grading with Schaeffer Skrip red yesterday and it bled through everything (even onto the next page). Today, I tried an allegedly drier ink, the Pelikan 4001 Violet, expecting less ink = less bleed, but nope - still looks like I'm writing on Kleenex. So my question for you all - is there some pen/ink combination that does well on horridly cheap copy paper for a reasonable price ($50-$100ish?).

 

For my redditors out there - tl;dr: I am a high school teacher that has to grade students' essays on terrible copy paper. I have a TWSBI 540 and various inks. Is there a pen/ink solution that might work for me?

Edited April 25, 2012 by withamazement

[olivier78860]

I would recommend a Fine or Extra Fine nib, with dry ink (in classic colours : black, red, or blue, but I guess blue isn't the best for corrections) (Waterman, Parker Quink, Pelikan 4001).

Regarding the pens, Waterman Expert I or II (~50€ or ~80€), Parker Rialto (~30€, slim pen), Waterman Lauréat (slim section, ~30€), Waterman Kultur (~15€, can be easily converted to eye-dropper) would be my choices.

 

If you're ready to invest in a good FP, S.T. Dupont Fidélio with Extra Fine nib seems to be the best choice, but it's more 200€ than $150 though.

 

Hope this helped.

Edited April 25, 2012 by olivier78860

[welch]

Maybe a Safari, fine point. That way, you won't have invested much. (The Lamy 2000 should be a great pen.). If your medium Safari worked OK, then stick with the Safari. Also consider one of the Japanese school pens...they come in .3mm "finer than fine" point.

 

I have used "vintage" Skrip on our printer paper, which is the lowest quality WB Mason junk. Seems OK.

[professionaldilettante]

An extra fine nib, plus an ink like X feather, or Sailor's Kiwa-guro should be your best bet.

[JLT]

Try one more ink variation before the 'other pen solution'. Try an iron gall ink. The only ink I've ever tried that outperforms Noodler's Black on really lousy paper is ESSRI - Ecclesiastical Stationery Supplies Registrars Ink. This stuff is (almost) magic and it is very inexpensive. 110 ml of ink for about US$15, postage included. You can order it here. If that doesn't fix the problem, you still have a generous supply of an excellent all-around ink. If it does fix the problem - here's the best part - buy another pen anyway!

 

Edited to add: Welcome to the madness!

Edited April 25, 2012 by JLT

[withamazement]

Thanks for the tips guys. I'll try another ink or two and see if I can remedy the situation, and go with an extra fine nib if I do another pen. Any suggestions for a $50ish Asian-nib pen? All the pens I have researched seem to be German, and I've heard Chinese/Japanese run one size finer. I guess I've heard good things about the Pilot VP in passing, but I'm not entirely sold on having a clip between my fingers on the grip and I don't know how the filling mechanism works on that one in particular. Also seen the Pilot Prera compared to the Lamy Safari, but the Lamy seems much cheaper everywhere that I can purchase one ($30 vs. $50).

[RudyR]

Try one more ink variation before the 'other pen solution'. Try an iron gall ink. The only ink I've ever tried that outperforms Noodler's Black on really lousy paper is ESSRI - Ecclesiastical Stationery Supplies Registrars Ink. This stuff is (almost) magic and it is very inexpensive. 110 ml of ink for about US$15, postage included. You can order it here. If that doesn't fix the problem, you still have a generous supply of an excellent all-around ink. If it does fix the problem - here's the best part - buy another pen anyway!

 

Edited to add: Welcome to the madness!

 

+1 on the iron gall ink

 

But hurry, its getting harder to find. Lamy blue/black was one ink that seemed made just for any crappy paper short of Kleenex tissue. It also will survive zombie (and student) apocalypses very well. Lamy unfortunately has reformulated its blue/black and no longer has the iron gall content so look for the older formula. Rohrer and Klingner Salix and Scabiosa are two you should also consider trying. And of course the mentioned ESSRI. Montblanc Midnight Blue (my go to ink and a great favorite) handles recycled 16 lb paper very well with very little bleed through. I used a Pelikan 205 demonstrator with a fine nib. Pelikans can be a bit wet. All cheap paper will ghost. No getting around that.

 

Or you could just get a really nice Nakaya with a fine nib and station a machine gun nest next to your desk to ward off delinquency. Either way, machine guns, inks, pens, they are all fun.

[OcalaFlGuy]

Withamazement, I don't have much to offer but one thing.

 

Somewhere you need to bump into a sample of Parker Quink Red. (I might could even send you one) It's a nice bright red that after a couple days looks to me like reddish dried blood.

 

 

Might help those markdowns and grades stick in your student's minds better...

 

 

PS

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL-who is totally down with a teacher having a wild enough weekend to lose a pen.

Edited April 25, 2012 by OcalaFlGuy

[withamazement]

Withamazement, I don't have much to offer but one thing.

 

Somewhere you need to bump into a sample of Parker Quink Red. (I might could even send you one) It's a nice bright red that after a couple days looks to me like reddish dried blood.

 

 

Might help those markdowns and grades stick in your student's minds better...

 

So funny you should mention this! I literally almost bought Noodler's Antietam because I think it's supposed to look like dried blood...and how can you deny the historical value of writing with an ink named after the single bloodiest day in U.S. history.

 

Also, I don't get out much these days (compared to college - it's all relative I guess). But when I do, apparently I lose pens.

 

edit: Machine guns. Yes. That is wisdom.

Edited April 25, 2012 by withamazement

[eef]

Diamine registrar's ink + any Sailor or Pilot (whatever you like) with golden nib size M.

 

IMO F or EF nib are too sharp for the poor paper.

[DET]

I'll chime in and recommend a Pilot 78G with a fine nib. They're pretty cheap -- ISellPens.com has them for $12.88 -- so no worries if yours gets lost or broken, and the fine nib -- which, being Asian, is more like a western extra-fine -- writes pretty dry. All of that should help with bleed-through and feathering, especially if you're using a dry-ish ink. Hope that helps.

[Maduro]

In my office I too have an abundance of cheap copy paper and legal pads. In my experience the pen that handles low quality paper the best is my Parker 45. I've used Waterman Red and several of the Diamine inks (Poppy Red and Ancient Copper) with good results. Hope this helps.

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

I think the choice of pen is up to your personal preferences.

 

As the paper is poor, the nib might be feel rough, so nothing too narrow. A generic Western F or Asian M most likely.

 

I do think the solution to the problematic paper is mostly about matching it to the ink.

 

The I-G inks have a strong reputation for doing well on FP-hostile paper.

 

For something that stands out a bit, I'd suggest the R&K Scabiosa with its dusky red-grey hue. Also, it can be mixed with R&K's other inks, except their Sepia, which should allow you to generate a brighter hue through a bit of mixing. (Perhaps with Solferino?) The extent of the mix would be set by the performance on your paper.

 

Bye,

S1

[Patrician]

In addition to the mentioned ferrogalic inks, Pelikan Black and Sheaffer black & BB usually behave on not so good papers. If the paper is really bad, I'm sorry you have to use it, some are so terrible that only colored pencils work on them.

[XiaoMG]

My experience is that on the worst papers, all liquid inks from "enthusiastic" pens will suffer badly. I keep a collection of gel pens just in case I come across some nasty paper, but I have had some degree of success using some inks through finer nibs.

 

My photo below was just whipped together really quick. Perhaps it is interesting to note that the worst performer in the quick test was the Platinum Preppy loaded with X-Feather. Don't get me wrong, X-Feather is a fine ink...but if it's coming from a pen that has a wetter nib (and in this case, a slow feed too), the result will be terrible. Kiwaguro, Noodler's Black, and X-Feather are champs when coming out of stingy nibs, and even the Ku-Jaku sample doesn't do too badly when the nib is laying it on light (though notice at the end when I press just a little to get a juicier line from the springy Pilot nib).

 

http://i.imgur.com/T9WI7.jpg

 

 

I cannot make any really good recommendations, but perhaps this offers something to think about. Low pressure, limited flow from the nib (not just a dry feed), finer lines. With some of the inks you already have, that should be satisfactory.

[FlyFast]

I've graded many assignments using a Hero 329 and Noodler's Red ink. The pen was about $15 from HisNibs.com and the ink is just the plain Red, nothing fancy. This combination seems to work very well on the cheap paper we have here at the university.

[kalali]

I do agree with some of the earlier comments indicating that the ink plays a much bigger role in the feathering qualities of a paper. To put this in relative terms, changing one variable and keeping others constant, I would say it is 70% ink, 10% pen itself and 20% the nib size. My choice of pen/ink/nib combo to use on newspaper grade paper is Pilot 78G/Noodler's X-feather/fine nib. I have tried the same pen/nib combination using Noodler's Nikita (bright red) with great results as well.

[ChelleW]

I have a journal with non FP friendly paper. Platinum (cart from Preppy) and Lamy inks behaved very nicely with the crappy paper.

[wallylynn]

Are you only ordering online? If there's a store you can visit, bring some of that paper and ask to try various pens and inks.

 

Personally, I've used my Lamy (F) with Heart of Darkness to fill out newspaper cross words. But I have to write fast and with a light touch. Any longer than a split second and it bleeds to the other side. Iron-gall inks are a bit better, but I still need to be quick.

 

The paper is just going to wick away whatever ink there is. As much as we love our FPs, sometimes a ballpoint is the better tool. The gel pens introduced in the past decade are immensely better than regular BPs.

[withamazement]

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. What a supportive community! I feel at home already :-) Anyone know how to slow down the feed and make my TWSBI drier?

 

eef - Do you have a recommendation on which sailor or pilot? Looking at XiaoMG's post, they seem to do really well.

 

XiaoMG - Thanks for your reply and that comparison. Very helpful! My TWSBI on paper towel is about the same as the Aurora Black sailor, one up from the bottom.

 

Flyfast - I'd REALLY like a Hero 850, but can't seem to find one anywhere!

 

kalali - While I'd like to agree with you in theory and say ink is most of it, I'm experiencing the (basically) the same results with all of my inks, which are all different brands. I have to think maybe my F TWSBI 540 is too wet for any ink to slow down.

 

ChelleW - I'd be interested to see how the Lamy Blue-Black iron gall variety held up (plus, Lamy's bottles are super functional!)

 

wallylynn - I am ordering online. I live about 2 hours outside of Chicago, and nearest pen store is in the Chicago suburbs, about an hour and a half away. I suppose it might be worth a trip, but I don't get out much :-P I suppose my experience with my paper at our school is basically the same as trying to write on newsprint. As much as I hate to admit it and it might be blasphemy around these parts (*hides*), perhaps something like a G2 or a flair is more practical. Maybe that's why I'm the only teacher in our building trying to grade with FP's.