What Is The Ideal Angle To Hold Fp At?

[Watercycle]

It's been asked a few times before so i'm sorry for that but, i'm curious about the logic behind it. Obviously with a flex pen you don't get much of an option over 30 is about all i'm entirely sure of . But practicality wise i'm curious what the ideal angle is and why?

 

Just wondering since i'm at 80 (which seems radical for any non italic/flex FP). I've also seen lots of 20 and under, which seems unrealistically hard (to me) when your not using a flex pen.

 

I rather be in the neutral ground (45 degrees) vs the extraneous, but the letters lose consistency when I do that =(

[professionaldilettante]

You've used BP's too much. Shoot for 45, and you'll be golden.

Edited April 2, 2012 by professionaldilettante

[ethernautrix]

I LOVE holding my pens at nearly 90 degrees. I don't understand why I have to change it if I'm not only satisfied with that angle but happy with it.

[paulturtle92]

I had asked this question about a week ago, got some responses regarding the common writing angles. I have to say, writing at 45 degrees is a bit weird after using BPs for my whole life. I write at about 80 degrees when I'm using BP/RBs, about 70 when using fountain pens.

 

Then, I acquired that cursed Churchill, which forced me to lower my writing angle to roughly 45 degrees. It's still a little uncomfortable for me, so I regularly find myself gradually increasing that angle with other non-fussy FPs, like the Safari or Expert. Sometimes, I just write like ethernautrix, at around 80 degrees, especially when speed is essential, like when I'm in an exam!

[htom]

I don't think there is one ideal angle. It's going to vary a lot with different nibs, their angle to the grip, the rotation of the nib as you write, a little less, but some with the ink and paper, and how you hold and move the pen to keep that angle.

 

For a general use fountain pen start near 45º with the nib squarely on the paper and experiment. Sometime higher or lower will work better in your hand. A slight rotation to the left or right. The balance of the pen. For most hands, most lettering, most pens, you'll probably end up at a 40º-50º angle, but pay more attention to the feel of the nib on the paper than to the numeric value.

[ethernautrix]

I never even knew I held the pen at a high angle until fp people started commenting on it.

 

 

[htom]

I never even knew I held the pen at a high angle until fp people started commenting on it.

 

I tend to letter (print) at a high angle because of years of use of technical pens in drafting, they're not usually happy at an angle of less than ~85º. Worse, I tend to use my fingers to do so, rather than my arm.

[Watercycle]

I find 85% of the motion coming from the wrist, 10% from the fingers, and about 5% from the arm

 

I guess quickly jotting with ballpoint at about 80 degrees for so long just makes 45 stressful to come down to, 50-60 seems fairly reasonable when given a chance, but still requires much more paced writing :hmm1:

Edited April 3, 2012 by Watercycle

[professionaldilettante]

I never even knew I held the pen at a high angle until fp people started commenting on it.

Flex nibs would definitively suffer, but nails wouldn't even miss a beat. That's why they dominate the market now, partially, for the vertical position and the pressure usually associated with BP's. It must be because your pens have very wide sweet spots. However, my brother, who holds his pens like you do, commented to me one day, that his pens feel smoother. I asked him what changed, and it turned out to be his positioning. Hard to overcome, but you might actually like it more too.

[ethernautrix]

I never even knew I held the pen at a high angle until fp people started commenting on it.

Flex nibs would definitively suffer, but nails wouldn't even miss a beat. That's why they dominate the market now, partially, for the vertical position and the pressure usually associated with BP's. It must be because your pens have very wide sweet spots. However, my brother, who holds his pens like you do, commented to me one day, that his pens feel smoother. I asked him what changed, and it turned out to be his positioning. Hard to overcome, but you might actually like it more too.

 

Yeah, I don't care for flex nibs. Just don't. I've tried 'em. They're great - for other people who like to add flourishes to their handwriting. I think those flourishes look great, but when I write, I write for speed and not beauty. I do usually attain legibility, so there's that.

 

My pens feel GREAT. I love how my Nakayas' hard nibs feel against the paper. If I changed my positioning, I'd lose that. Why would I want to do that?

 

Listen, I'm not obstinate. I've listened to others talk about their experiences. I've tried. I just really LIKE how I write. So I don't understand why this push to hold the pen at a lower angle. To achieve what? I'm already happy.

 

 

 

 

Edit: Stupid typos.

Edited April 3, 2012 by ethernautrix

[Nonsensical]

I hold my pens at an angle that ranges between 40-60 degrees, depending on the pen itself. My grip changes slightly between using flex nibs, italic nibs, stub nibs and regular nibs, but the angle is pretty much constant. Using mechanical pencils, I write at a slightly higher angle, between 50-70 degrees, once again depending on the balance of the pencil.

[htom]

[snipping]

 

My pens feel GREAT. I love how my Nakayas' hard nibs feel against the paper. If I changed my positioning, I'd lose that. Why would I want to do that?

 

Listen, I'm not obstinate. I've listened to others talk about their experiences. I've tried. I just really LIKE how I write. So I don't understand why this push to hold the pen at a lower angle. To achieve what? I'm already happy.

 

You shouldn't change. There's a human desire to have others "conform" to their "right way" of doing things; sometimes -- rarely -- there is a good reason for this. Since you're both happy and successful holding your pens your way, this obviously isn't one of them; go for it.

[ethernautrix]

You shouldn't change.

 

Yeah. I don't plan to. No reason for it.

 

And I'm not urging others to hold their pens the way I do, either. Don't know if anyone's noticed that or not....

 

Find your own way. It's just a pen.

[Nokin]

I've used my Sailor KOP with the King Eagle nib a lot, so I've got used to changing the angle considerably! If I want fine I need to hold it at 80-90 degrees, medium at about 60-70, broad 45- 50, and below 40 degrees it's like a brush!

 

Because of this I tend to vary the way I hold all my pens, depending on the paper, and of course on the purpose of my writing. Most of my pens seem to be quite forgiving in this respect, although I'm not too sure of the long term effects on the nibs!

[caliken]

You shouldn't change. There's a human desire to have others "conform" to their "right way" of doing things; sometimes -- rarely -- there is a good reason for this. Since you're both happy and successful holding your pens your way, this obviously isn't one of them; go for it.

What matters most of all, is how it looks on the page and whether or not it's legible.

 

The only reasons for considering a change of pen hold, are if you're not happy with your writing and/or if you suffer discomfort, or even pain, after a relatively short spell of writing.

 

The 'tripod' pen hold with the shaft resting on, or in front of the large knuckle, produces a paper-to-pen-shaft

angle of between 50 and 65 degrees, for most writers. This hold and angle have proven to be the most flexible and comfortable over long periods and are widely advocated. It is, in no way, the only way to hold a pen but it is the most likely to produce easy, good writing with minimum effort.

 

Ethernautrix writes beautifully and legibly and, as writing at a steep angle works for her, there is absolutely no reason why she should change. It looks great on paper, and that's really all that matters.

 

In my teens, I had a weird pen grip. As I was becoming interested in Calligraphy, and was experiencing some cramp problems, I consciously made the change to the conventional pen grip. I was aware of the easing of tension and the gradual improvement in my writing.

 

My advice, for what it's worth, is simple. If you're experiencing hand strain and your writing lacks consistency or quality, give it a try. If you're happy with your writing and are comfortable, then don't change anything.

 

 

Ken

Edited April 3, 2012 by caliken

[caliken]

.....I have to say, writing at 45 degrees is a bit weird after using BPs for my whole life. I write at about 80 degrees when I'm using BP/RBs, about 70 when using fountain pens.

 

Then, I acquired that cursed Churchill, which forced me to lower my writing angle to roughly 45 degrees. It's still a little uncomfortable for me, so I regularly find myself gradually increasing that angle with other non-fussy FPs, like the Safari or Expert. Sometimes, I just write like ethernautrix, at around 80 degrees, especially when speed is essential, like when I'm in an exam!

 

I find this all a bit puzzling.

 

It makes no difference to me, if I'm writing with a flexible, pointed nib or a round-tipped 'nail' or a square-edged italic nib; nor does it matter if I'm writing Italic, Uncial, Blackletter, Copperplate or any other style,

I always hold my pens in exactly the same way, with the same pen-to-paper angle and 'tripod' pen hold.

 

This is how I hold all my pens. The paper-to-shaft angle is about 55 degrees.

 

I don't understand 'sweet spot' as all my nibs have always felt the same and have responded the same, straight off! Could this possibly be a bit of a myth?! I find it hard to believe that I'm always just lucky with my nibs.

 

Ken

 

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/PenAngle250.jpg

[Watercycle]

Noticing the picture just now, I question, are we speaking purely the pitch or yaw of the pen?

 

Because honestly I began with the impression that a generalized angle for FP meant whether your pens tail was facing directly at you or directly perpendicular to your right (for righties that is).

 

For me, the pitch is probably about 30 or 35 degrees because I like to have my fingers relaxed/stretched out.

 

The yaw thought I have seen in so many varied forms; and that it probably has a bigger impact than pitch, that made me curious.

 

Regardless both variations make my pinky always feels stiff at the end of writing

 

 

~also thank you for the responses thus far, each one gives me a better idea of how it works =)

Edited April 3, 2012 by Watercycle

[caliken]

Because honestly I began with the impression that a generalized angle for FP meant whether your pens tail was facing directly at you or directly perpendicular to your right (for righties that is).

 

For most right-handed, the pen shaft points slightly to the right of the right shoulder.

 

Ken

Edited April 4, 2012 by caliken