What's The Point Of Oblique Nibs?

[beak]

...............

 

Here's where you're confusing yourself. The pen (barrel) continues to point in the same direction with an oblique as it would normally. It is the effective direction of the nib which is changed. Put another way, if you normally place your paper, arm, and pen on the table so that the edge points 45 degrees above horizontal with an italic nib, using a 15 degree L-oblique will make the edge point 60 degrees above horizontal. This allows for thinner joins, joins at an angle similar to what is taught in most modern cursive hands.

 

..............

First, you're right about the angle - 60 is likely a better figure than 45, I really meant 'the natural angle' of the edge, for a normal grip - for do we all not instinctively place a normal nib in that attitude which seats the nib properly, but comfortably according to our grip?

 

And you're right that this is the point where confusion enters, introduced by me, or not! Since I find it obvious and natural to place the (ordinary) nib at this natural angle, any nib cut obliqely requires a twisting motion and or a change of hand/arm angle to make it seat properly, and that's the point at which I decide that I do not require such a nib. If I twist the pen to seat such a nib, I find that the nib behaves unnaturally, does not glide well in that the pen wants to write a line of script ascending or descending as it moves across the page from right to left, and the nib may dig in at the corner. Therefore I conclude that the angled nib is designed for one to whom that direction of hand and arm movement which feels so unnatural to me, feels natural to them.

 

Thanks for the link - I'll study such charts once more, but in the absence of a comparison by the same hand, and explanatory comments by the mind controlling that hand, I find it hard to extract useful insights from the pictures.

 

PS

Given the fact that I may merely be entrenching myself in an unprofitable position here, I'll ask again if an oblique nib will offer anything to such as myself.

 

ETA

I think my way out of this may be to sit at the elbow of an oblique user and watch them write both with their pen and with a normal nib - then perhaps things will be clear.

Edited April 3, 2012 by beak

[Kimo]

I write with my right hand and I do not 'roll' my pen in the least. I prefer oblique nibs and have written with them for a great many years for the simple reason that it gives me a variation in the width of the line depending on which direction the nib is going - it is the same as an italic nib for me, except it is not quite as wide and the slant on the nib makes the wide/thin variation on more of an angle than an italic making it write very smoothly and quickly in a way I can not get with a plain italic nib.

 

Other people may like to use obliques for other reasons, but this is the only reason why I use them.

[Mickey]

Since I find it obvious and natural to place the (ordinary) nib at this natural angle, any nib cut obliqely requires a twisting motion and or a change of hand/arm angle to make it seat properly, and that's the point at which I decide that I do not require such a nib. If I twist the pen to seat such a nib, I find that the nib behaves unnaturally, does not glide well in that the pen wants to write a line of script ascending or descending as it moves across the page from right to left, and the nib may dig in at the corner. Therefore I conclude that the angled nib is designed for one to whom that direction of hand and arm movement which feels so unnatural to me, feels natural to them.

 

 

Let me see if I can help you on this. Having soled the nib correctly (for the first time), one can't just keep trying to steer the pen to produce the exact same letter forms that an italic nib created. It almost can, but not easily. Thus, the frustration.

 

This sounds self-evident, but I've seen posts in this forum from other people who seemed to be trying to do exactly what I described: compensate for the obliqueness rather than employing it. Part of the (brief) acclimation to oblique nibs is letting the nib (not your eye) steer your hand for a while. Your hand needs to relearn where the nib steers easily and where it tends to plow a straight furrow. Once (re)learned, you hand will know again how to adjust for all the normal direction changes nibs must make. (As I mentioned, a light hand makes this adjustment easier.) Acclimation doesn't take all that long, but if you ignore this step, you'll experience exactly the sort of dissatisfaction you and other have described.

[beak]

.......

The situation may be exactly as you have described - the next time I try an oblique nib I shall put it to the test.

 

On the face of it, I don't yet see why I should invest the time to relearn the use an oblique nib - where is the benefit of doing so? Not denying that there is any benefit, just don't appreciate what that may be for me. Having become completely comfortable and satisfied with the ('normal') pen I use daily, and finding that I can continue to improve with it, towards a readable and interesting (but not quirky) script, my ink-cup runneth over!

 

To an old dog such as myself, there may be nothing to be gained from this new trick. But I am perfectly wiling to admit that I am not in search of a script with high ink-line variation (which does not appeal to me for everday use) and that to one more interested in a more varied ink-line, the oblique may offer something.

Edited April 3, 2012 by beak

[Mickey]

 

To an old dog such as myself, there may be nothing to be gained from this new trick. But I am perfectly wiling to admit that I am not in search of a script with high ink-line variation (which does not appeal to me for everday use) and that to one more interested in a more varied ink-line, the oblique may offer something.

 

I divide my pen use into two worlds: getting the work done and playing around. These days, edged pens don't really fit into either world. My carry pens are EF and EEF nails and my home pens are dip pens. If I feel like playing around, I put a more flexible nib into a holder and spend a half hour working on my penmanship. That's pretty much it. Woof woof.

[georges zaslavsky]

OB can give nice line variation if used properly

[Biber]

Confusion generated by a cabal of lefties theorizing on a topic?

 

Perish the thought...

 

 

 

Touche, that was a really good one! Though it begs a more clever retort than something dealing with the right mind, I'll simply ask what would be the term for a group of left handed writers? Something sinister no doubt.

[torstar]

Confusion generated by a cabal of lefties theorizing on a topic?

 

Perish the thought...

 

 

 

Touche, that was a really good one! Though it begs a more clever retort than something dealing with the right mind, I'll simply ask what would be the term for a group of left handed writers? Something sinister no doubt.

 

 

 

Can't be a murder or a parliament or a shrewdness or a sleuth or an implausibility

 

I'd settle for a screwed [or f'd] up magic show of lefties.

 

But you have three categories to assort into...

 

The quirky (and proper); the fakes (born lefty but not mentally one); and the honorary lefties (born righty but mentally lefty)

[Biber]

Confusion generated by a cabal of lefties theorizing on a topic?

 

Perish the thought...

 

 

 

Touche, that was a really good one! Though it begs a more clever retort than something dealing with the right mind, I'll simply ask what would be the term for a group of left handed writers? Something sinister no doubt.

 

 

 

Can't be a murder or a parliament or a shrewdness or a sleuth or an implausibility

 

I'd settle for a screwed [or f'd] up magic show of lefties.

 

But you have three categories to assort into...

 

The quirky (and proper); the fakes (born lefty but not mentally one); and the honorary lefties (born righty but mentally lefty)

 

How gauche!

[torstar]

Confusion generated by a cabal of lefties theorizing on a topic?

 

Perish the thought...

 

 

 

Touche, that was a really good one! Though it begs a more clever retort than something dealing with the right mind, I'll simply ask what would be the term for a group of left handed writers? Something sinister no doubt.

 

 

 

Can't be a murder or a parliament or a shrewdness or a sleuth or an implausibility

 

I'd settle for a screwed [or f'd] up magic show of lefties.

 

But you have three categories to assort into...

 

The quirky (and proper); the fakes (born lefty but not mentally one); and the honorary lefties (born righty but mentally lefty)

 

How gauche!

 

 

 

 

The saddest thing I ever seen was lefty auditors in accounting firms without a trace of quirkiness.

[Bo Bo Olson]

This is for right handers.

 

You can tell someone you ain't got to twist nothing all day long...and they keep twisting.

( I can not understand what or why they are twisting. )

 

OK TWIST...there is a magic twist process.

 

Twist the nib to the side (canted). Hold the pen to the paper with the left hand....Let loose of pen....re-grip the pen normal....Bingo.

 

All you are doing is writing exactly normal...no magic handshake.

 

OK a while back I developed this aiming guide for these threads in I had no problem and tried to aim folks to do it with no problems.

 

Look at the nib and guess if it's @15 or 30 Degrees of grind.

 

If 15 degrees. Take the cap and post it, so the clip lines up between the slit and the right edge of the nib.

Ignore the nib.

Put the pen in the web of your hand with the clip as an aiming device...ignoring the nib, just point the clip at the paper like normal...in most folks tend to align the clip in the middle of the nib when writing that should be easy enough.

 

For a 30 Degree grind. Align the clip at the right edge of the nib.

 

Very simple...write normal...don't twist nothing.

 

 

 

Beak have you tried obliques with some flex?

[wpb]

I may have read through this thread too quickly, but I think everyone is missing the point (no pun intended) of an oblique nib.

 

An oblique nib provides line variation that is opposite of a stub or italic nib. With an oblique nib, down strokes are narrow and cross strokes are broad. Some people like this type of line variation and prefer oblique nibs.

 

The whole left handed vs. right handed thing makes no sense to me. The objective of an oblique nib is to change the line variation from a more common stub or italic nib, and not which hand you write with.

 

Bill

Edited April 3, 2012 by wpb

[Biber]

...

An oblique nib provides line variation that is opposite of a stub or italic nib. With an oblique nib, down strokes are narrow and cross strokes are broad. Some people like this type of line variation and prefer oblique nibs.

...

Bill

 

That would be an Arabic/Hebrew Italic, which isn't an oblique.

[Mickey]

...

An oblique nib provides line variation that is opposite of a stub or italic nib. With an oblique nib, down strokes are narrow and cross strokes are broad. Some people like this type of line variation and prefer oblique nibs.

...

Bill

 

That would be an Arabic/Hebrew Italic, which isn't an oblique.

 

You are essentially correct in your description of an Arabic Hebrew type nib. I wouldn't, however, tack on the label italic, since italic nibs are generally understood to be nibs with the edge at 90 degrees to the pen shaft.

[Mickey]

I may have read through this thread too quickly, but I think everyone is missing the point (no pun intended) of an oblique nib.

 

An oblique nib provides line variation that is opposite of a stub or italic nib.

 

Nope. (see post from Biber)

The objective of an oblique nib is to change the line variation from a more common stub or italic nib, and not which hand you write with.

 

Yup. (pretty much)

[Biber]

You are essentially correct in your description of an Arabic Hebrew type nib. I wouldn't, however, tack on the label italic, since italic nibs are generally understood to be nibs with the edge at 90 degrees to the pen shaft.

 

Agree, however, that's what Binder calls it.

[wpb]

Oops. My error. Sorry for the confusion.

 

Bill

[torstar]

I may have read through this thread too quickly, but I think everyone is missing the point (no pun intended) of an oblique nib.

 

An oblique nib provides line variation that is opposite of a stub or italic nib. With an oblique nib, down strokes are narrow and cross strokes are broad. Some people like this type of line variation and prefer oblique nibs.

 

The whole left handed vs. right handed thing makes no sense to me. The objective of an oblique nib is to change the line variation from a more common stub or italic nib, and not which hand you write with.

 

Bill

 

 

must be right handed

[Mickey]

 

I would love to see an oblique user post images of their writing both with an oblique nib and with an ordinary nib, not only to see the difference in effect but to hear about their grip or comfort or any other factor of use not obvious from viewing the two scripts.

 

 

Pardon me for responding twice to this post, but while stumbling around John Mottishaw's site (drooling over Nakayas), I fell on to this page, which comes closer to telling an accurate story about edged FPs than any other on line resource I've found. Unfortunately, the examples are still awfully short and don't really show the differences as clearly as they might, but it's a lot cheaper for me than buying a passel of pens and doing it myself.

 

http://www.nibs.com/Fountain-Pen-Nib-Customizations.htm

[beak]

........

http://www.nibs.com/...tomizations.htm

 

Not at all - I found the forth vid down instructive! And mystifying too - I notice here that so much must depend on the 'touch' of the writer. Pausing the vid at 1:06 and comparing the two scripts indeed shows thinner ascenders from the oblique when comparing the capital I in 'Italic' above to the small L in 'oblique' below. At the end of the first word in either sample, however, there is no difference in the final e of each word or in the link to that e from the previous letter.

 

I'm beginning to think that we compensate and adjust subconsciously as we form letters with whatever nib we happen to have in our hand, and that variation so produced by the 'touch' of the user can make a significant difference to the performance of these nibs.