What's The Point Of Oblique Nibs?

[professionaldilettante]

If oblique nibs are for people who roll their nibs, what is the point if you could just role the pen opposite of your habitual rotation? Then, when you do roll the nib, your nib would be at the right position and you wouldn't need an OB nib then right? Am I missing something?

[Brian C]

I always ask myself this same question whenever it comes up here. You won't get an absolute answer I'm guessing. Lot's of stuff about variation and lefties and other stuff will be brought up. Good luck.

[professionaldilettante]

I always ask myself this same question whenever it comes up here. You won't get an absolute answer I'm guessing. Lot's of stuff about variation and lefties and other stuff will be brought up. Good luck.

I can understand variation, but as Richard Binder has said, there is no such thing as a left handed pen.

[Patrician]

Obliques are for users that naturally rotate their pens. They can give a discreet line variation when used straight, but they are not meant to do so.

Left handed pens have grips that help grab the section correctly -specially in student pens- and nibs that tend to be dry, so ink won't smear. Not discussing Richard Binder's or anyone else's advice, I'm realizing the different geographical location of members greatly influences their opinions. What it seems logical and common wisdom in one place, is often rebated and under a different point of view in other.

[Mickey]

If oblique nibs are for people who roll their nibs, what is the point if you could just role the pen opposite of your habitual rotation? Then, when you do roll the nib, your nib would be at the right position and you wouldn't need an OB nib then right? Am I missing something?

Not a dimmed thing. To paraphrase Henry Higgins and Colonel Pickering, "By George, he's got it."

 

Oblique nibs are not the Antikythera mechanism. Their basic structure, operation, and function are simple and straight forward. Obliques are edged pens which have edges not at right angles to the pen shaft. Consequently, the widest and thinnest marks they make are offset some number of degrees from those made by pens with edges at right angles to the pen shaft (those typically called italic or stub). The edge of all edged pens (italic and oblique) must be properly soled (the edge put flush on the page) for them to function correctly. And, to quote Porky Pig, "th th th th that's all folks.

[Beechwood]

There are also different oblique angles, at least two, 15 degrees and 30, To pick up on Mikeys point, I roll my pen to the left, instinctively, at around 30degrees and hadnt realised I did so until Eckiethump pointed it out. Therefore, an oblique nib works very well for me giving good line variation with a modern stiff nib at whilst applying constant pressure.

 

You may find that if your handwriting is small then there is little benefit in an oblique and you would be better looking for a fine and flexible nib to provide some line variation.

[professionaldilettante]

There are also different oblique angles, at least two, 15 degrees and 30, To pick up on Mikeys point, I roll my pen to the left, instinctively, at around 30degrees and hadnt realised I did so until Eckiethump pointed it out. Therefore, an oblique nib works very well for me giving good line variation with a modern stiff nib at whilst applying constant pressure.

 

You may find that if your handwriting is small then there is little benefit in an oblique and you would be better looking for a fine and flexible nib to provide some line variation.

But if you know you turn your pen when you use it, why not just preemptively turn in in the poopsite direction of your usual turn?

[tonybelding]

You can put me down in the camp of people who've never understood this. I mean, I understand the purpose of oblique stub or italic nibs, and I rather like them.... But the purpose of a round oblique eludes me.

 

I keep hearing about people who "naturally" roll their pens to the left or right. I just figured that correctly orienting the nib to the page was one of those basic skills you had to pick up when starting with fountain pens, and I'm not sure why anybody would have difficulty with this.

 

I suppose it would make more sense back in the Good Old Days when somebody might have one or two fountain pens, and they could get an oblique and be done with it. I'm a collector, I have a ton of pens, so I've had to learn to be adaptive and write with whatever I've got in my hand anyhow.

[Biber]

Rolling a nib is said as though it's a bad thing. I feel that a nib is a tool, and rolling it is a technique to using that tool.

 

Though I understand what Binder is trying to say - that anyone can basically use any shaped nib, I have to differ with him on this one. I don't know the historical origins or usage of left oblique nibs (though I surmise their historical usage may be German, but in calligraphy they are certainly marketed to left handers as a way to opproximate the line variations of staight or even right oblique nibs as used by right handers. - picture this: paper vertical, right handed writer using a straight broad calligraphy nib; nib edge would in effect be 45 or so degrees to the orientation of the paper, ink would be drawn from the nib by pulling from the underside. For a left handed under writer to effectively equate this a left foot oblique would need be employed, rotated clockwise. If a left handed under writer were to us a straight nib then the he would have to hold the nib nearly vertical to use the entire edge, otherwise only the left tip of the edge would be used, which would potentially dig in on some strokes.

 

The key to all this is how the ink is drawn from the nib. Because western writing is necessarily a left to right exercise it also also employs a necessarily right handed technique. That is, in writing with a fountain pen, the ink is drawn from the underside of the nib by pulling across the paper in a left to right direction. For a right handed person to understand this more clearly, try to approximate writing but in a right to left direction. (Ha! now you know how us lefties feel!) To make both (writing in the opposite direction to your handedness) work without changing tools (modifying the nib) an over hand technique must be used. But in doing so, one ends up using the nib the opposite way: the ink is drawn from the top side of the nib by pushing. Hence a left footed oblique allows a left hander to approximate the line variations of a similarly shaped straight nib as used be a right hander. As always the wider the nib the greater the possibility for snagging and digging in.

 

Any thoughts on this?

[ttakacs]

 

[snip]

 

Any thoughts on this?

 

I am a left-hander (and a slight over-writer) who just acquired a left-footed oblique, flexible nib. How do you roll the nib in order to use it?

[Biber]

For a left handed under writer I would think it is best to rotate slightly counter clock wise so that the thinnest line is produced diagonally on the 8 - 2 axis (?). The underside of the nib would be most visible to you

 

For a left handed over writer to use a left foot oblique the nib would need to be rotated 180 degrees to the above (top of nib facing you) and the nib would essentially be pushed left to right across the line.

 

All of this of course assumes you want to produce the classic cursive calligraphy where the thinnest lines are essentially on the diagonal up stroke.

 

CAVEAT: I am NOT a calligrapher and do not play one on TV. These are just my impression of how to do it based on my own eperience and experimentation. It would behoove you to do some research and experimentation on your own.

 

Experiment: Take a 3x5 card or other piece of cardboard. Cut a strip about the length and width of a pen or pencil. Trim one end diagonally to simulate an oblique nib and mark what would be the top side of the nib. Then try to simulate writing and observe what needs to be done in order for the side points of the nib not to catch or dig into the paper. Also note which side of the nib is facing you and leading the way left to right across the paper. As I understand it the most common angles for oblique nibs are 15 and 30 degrees.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Biber

[torstar]

 

[snip]

 

Any thoughts on this?

 

I am a left-hander (and a slight over-writer) who just acquired a left-footed oblique, flexible nib. How do you roll the nib in order to use it?

 

 

 

As a lefty...

 

I naturally turn the nib clockwise so this position isn't best for a left-footed nib, little toes lining up to the big toe...

 

I have to consciously turn it the way to place optimal nib on the paper, counter-clockwise, and I find it takes me an hour or two to adjust to the sweet spot without thinking about it.

[kalali]

 

[snip]

 

Any thoughts on this?

 

I am a left-hander (and a slight over-writer) who just acquired a left-footed oblique, flexible nib. How do you roll the nib in order to use it?

 

In my opinion you're better off with a right-foot oblique if you're an underwriter lefty like me. I much prefer to rotate the pen in the 10-4 position rather than 8-2.

[professionaldilettante]

You can put me down in the camp of people who've never understood this. I mean, I understand the purpose of oblique stub or italic nibs, and I rather like them.... But the purpose of a round oblique eludes me.

 

I keep hearing about people who "naturally" roll their pens to the left or right. I just figured that correctly orienting the nib to the page was one of those basic skills you had to pick up when starting with fountain pens, and I'm not sure why anybody would have difficulty with this.

 

I suppose it would make more sense back in the Good Old Days when somebody might have one or two fountain pens, and they could get an oblique and be done with it. I'm a collector, I have a ton of pens, so I've had to learn to be adaptive and write with whatever I've got in my hand anyhow.

There's such thing as a round oblique? Really? THAT, i have no idea why...

[professionaldilettante]

 

[snip]

 

Any thoughts on this?

 

I am a left-hander (and a slight over-writer) who just acquired a left-footed oblique, flexible nib. How do you roll the nib in order to use it?

 

In my opinion you're better off with a right-foot oblique if you're an underwriter lefty like me. I much prefer to rotate the pen in the 10-4 position rather than 8-2.

Again... why not just start with the pen rotated in the opposite direction, and rotate as you naturally would, thus having a nib that is at the right position?

[Mickey]

You can put me down in the camp of people who've never understood this. I mean, I understand the purpose of oblique stub or italic nibs, and I rather like them.... But the purpose of a round oblique eludes me.

 

 

Probably because when the contact patch of a nib is essentially round, the nib isn't meaningfully oblique.

 

The same argument that created the 'round oblique' could support the existence of the 'round italic', a contradiction in terms if there ever was one. This theoretical nib would be nearly a squared rectangle, with corners so rounded that at normal ink flow rates it would produce the same width line in all directions.

 

Whoops, somebody's already done that. In fact, that's a fair description of many nominally round nibs. It's strange no one has thought to call them 'round italics,' but it's probably because the shape of the patch is not visible to the naked eye, unlike the bias cut topside of an indistinctly ground oblique, such as contemporary Pel OMs. Here's the crux of the matter. How does one sell a funny looking nib which doesn't do anything special? Cargo cult.

 

Let me make one observation about the way some products are marketed, particular those sold by art supply stores. The range of tools and materials is so vast, it is unlikely the person who owns the store and or is responsible for the advertising copy understands the purpose and use of even half of them. One of the online merchant from whom I buy dip pens supplies does not understand most of the gear I buy from them. Their prices are fair, their range of supplies vast, and their service timely, so they get my custom. That they don't perfectly understand everything they sell is a sign of the times (and the need for economies of scale) and is absolutely no reflection on this seller's goodness.

[Biber]

In my opinion you're better off with a right-foot oblique if you're an underwriter lefty like me. I much prefer to rotate the pen in the 10-4 position rather than 8-2.

 

Depends on what effect you are after. What you are referring to is the thinnest line being the diagonal 10-4 stroke, which I believe is the opposite of traditional calligraphy.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Biber

[torstar]

 

[snip]

 

Any thoughts on this?

 

I am a left-hander (and a slight over-writer) who just acquired a left-footed oblique, flexible nib. How do you roll the nib in order to use it?

 

In my opinion you're better off with a right-foot oblique if you're an underwriter lefty like me. I much prefer to rotate the pen in the 10-4 position rather than 8-2.

 

 

 

Right footeds are not plenteous in this universe.

[Essensia]

I'm not sure there needs to be a purpose other than the fact that there are people who find them more comfortable, easier to use, whatever. No matter how many times you tell someone to rotate their pen in the other direction before writing, maybe they just don't want to. If a specialized nib makes life easier, hey, more power to 'em.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Last night I saw a modern TV program on that, Antikythera mechanism...my they really came a long way in understanding that since the '60's.

 

 

Nice line variation is what I am after...with oblique nibs with some flex.

 

The way I see Oblique nibs....first I don't like stiff oblique nibs I had a Lamy Persona with a 18 K OB nail.

 

To me they are a waste of metal...others like them, but I think many either don't know better that oblique with some flex is lots more fun than stiff or regular flex oblique.

 

Ever since I was a kid(50s-60s), I saw some kids and some people naturally canted their nibs when writing with a fountain pen. I see the modern oblique nib to be just great for them, as long as they don't expect the world for line variation.

 

 

I get much more fun being a right hander with oblique nibs that have some flex....semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex/'flexi'.

I have a mix of them.

I have in @ 15 and @ 30 Degree grind in OBB, OB, OM, and OF.

For me the 30 degree grind gives a bit fancier pattern.

 

 

I highly recommend them as lots of fun.

Just put the nib to the paper. Then grip the pen normally, and write regular with out rolling or rotating anything, or dislocating your shoulder or hanging from the ceiling.

 

Don't get Fancy...it will do fancy all by it's self.

 

We have been fighting this battle for the last few years and I'm sure long before.

 

A new factor came out ... I'm not sure if it was by way of Richard or not...

Some folks do something small wrong and paper that is held at a 'normal' 45 degrees an Oblique nib works less than if the paper is held at 90 or 180 degrees.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Bo Bo Olson