Getting Started In Vintage Pens

[tricnomistal]

Hello Fountain Pen Pals!

 

I'm back with another question. I've been in a mod to learn a lot lately.

 

So here's my next question:

 

I am thinking of getting started in vintage pen collecting. As there are sooooooo many different vintage pens out there, I thought it would be impractical to ask for specific suggestions on which pens to get, so instead I have a couple of questions. Feel free to answer any one of them, or all of them.

 

1. What do *you* look for in a vintage pen? What's important to you in one?

 

2. Are there any good starter guides out there for collecting vintage pens?

 

3. Where do you buy them? I have no pen shops anywhere close to me, so online is my only real option...

 

4. Any other general tips for finding/ selecting vintage pens?

 

5. If you know of anyone selling (or are selling one yourself) that would be a good starter vintage pen, feel free to post it here.

 

Thanks again!

[asaha]

I am really new to the vintage pen world, not authority. Just want to share some shallow experience and hope to help a little bit :roflmho:

 

I have wasted some money on some no so smart vintage pens because of the lack of knowledge. So, my strongest suggestion is reading and learning a lot in this forum and other sources before you start the hunting, if you do not want to waste money. The knowledge on vintage pen is of huge amount, much more than modern pen as you can imagine. You want to be patient.

 

Ebay is just ok, not perfect. Usually no deals in Ebay. If there is no crazy guys in a bid, you may get what you want in fair price. And there a huge amount of crazy guys in Ebay unfortunately. I guess if you consult in this nice forum, knowledgable guys will give you some guides on some Ebay bids, price and quality. I have visited about 10 local antique stores and most of them do not carry good vintage pens. You can still try hunting in the antique stores, trying luck.

 

I think I am quite a stupid new guy in the vintage pen world and I sincerely hope my FP friends here will not make the same mistakes I made before.

 

Enjoy :roflmho:

[fpman]

1) Cheap vintage pens are normally worth what you pay for them.

 

2) It is usually the other guy that gets the crazy good (sumgai) deal on that rare vintage pen. Be happy with reasonable prices.

 

3) If you buy an unrestored (i.e. not working) pen, figure $25 and up to get it restored (at least until and unless you learn enough to restore it yourself). Plus time waiting in a queue until the restorer can work on your pen (varies from a couple of weeks to four months).

 

4) Unless you're willing to pay for an education, be cautious buying on eBay. There's good stuff, bad stuff, and the odd delusional fool who believes that just because it is a fountain pen it must be worth hundreds of dollars regardless of condition or who made it.

 

5) Except for rare models that weren't made in great numbers, vintage fountain pens are worth about the same as they were 10, 20 and 30 years ago (adjusted for inflation). Collect because you love the look, the feel, the history, because you love writing with a fountain pen; just don't expect to get rich collecting them.

 

6)If you do like writing with fountain pens, many will tell you it's the nib. They're right. You're better off getting a beater of a pen with a great nib (avoid spoon-nibs and the ones with folded steel tips) than a great looking pen with a poor nib (see item 3 and add $35 and up for a new nib).

 

7) If you want reliable, reasonably priced working pens, buy from the classifieds on FPN.

 

8) There are always exceptions to everything listed above. The more you learn, the easier it is to find the exceptions.

[AltecGreen]

1. What do *you* look for in a vintage pen? What's important to you in one?

 

Everyone will have a different answer for this. For me, I look for celluloid, urushi, maki-e, flex nibs, obscure brands, unique and rare pens. It was my love of celluloid that lead me to vintage pens. Modern celluloid is a pale imitation of what was available in the golden age. These criteria give rise to several focus areas. They are vintage Italian, vintage Japanese, and the rarer vintage American pens (think LeBeouf, Chilton, Conklin, etc.). I'm not much of a Parker, Sheaffer, or Waterman guy. I love small obscure brands which lead me to the numerous small Italian and Japanese brands.

 

2. Are there any good starter guides out there for collecting vintage pens?

I don't know of any. Vintage pens cover such large ground. I just saw a pen I liked and bought it. That's how I started. Research and knowledge are both very important. Take time to learn about the kind of pens that interest you. There are very good books on fountain pens.

 

 

3. Where do you buy them? I have no pen shops anywhere close to me, so online is my only real option...

Any where you can. One of the things that scare new people away from vintage pens is that you cannot go to the "popular FPN online store de jour" click add to cart with your choice of color and nibs and check out. It doesn't quite work that.

 

For me the sources are in the following order and ranking:

 

1) pen shows

2) eBay

3) vintage pen dealers

5) private transactions

5) pen clubs

7) FPN or equivalent

8) the wild

 

Pen shows are great and one of the best way to find vintage pens. 40-50% of the pens I buy each year come from pens shows. You will also find experts who have lifelong experience with specific brands. Spending a few hours chatting at a pen show is better than spending a year on FPN. eBay is a dual edge sword. You can easily get burned even if you are experienced but you can also do very well with the right strategy, knowledge, and a bit of luck. My advice for eBay is to not use it to bargain hunt. I treat it like an online store that occasionally has unique pens I want. When something comes up, bid to win dont' nickel and dime. eBay can be very good if you are patient and know your pens.

 

This week I picked up a vintage Columbus 96 for $430. This pen would run more than $1000 if sold by a dealer. I just picked up two vintage Japanese pens tonight on eBay for $35. The same pens could easily have gone for $100 if sold by the right eBay dealer.

 

There are many online dealers on vintage pens. David Nishimura (vintagepen on FPN), Gary Lehrer (gopens.com), the Lotts (Fivestarpens.com), etc. You pay a premium but the descriptions are accurate and usually come with a guarantee. The pens also tend to be in really good condition.

 

Antique stores are hit and mostly miss. Many stores realize the value and sell it themselves on eBay. Others have made long term agreements with local collectors who buy everything that comes through. You can also consider estate sales but like antique stores, the guys running these things know the value and have ready customers.

 

For the more serious collectors, they get their name known in the area and people contact them to move whole lots of pens. This is potentially the cheapest way to get pens but you'll have to buy whole lots, cull the pens you want and move the rest.

 

 

 

4. Any other general tips for finding/ selecting vintage pens?

 

 

Here is a protip. Don't be the guy who goes on eBay and buys a beat-up Esterbrook for $20. Then spends ($5) shipping to someone to re-sac the pen for ($15), replace the beat up nib ($15), and sent back ($5). When you could buy the same pen already restored (ex. Ron Zorn) for $40. Why pay $60 when you can get the same pen for $40. Use some common sense.

 

If you are going to be seriously getting into vintage pens, learn to do basic pen repairs.

 

I cannot emphasis knowledge enough. Read books, talk to experts, ask questions. I suggest doing this before buying rather than coming here and asking if you did good. You might try joining other pen forums. I recommend the Fountain Pen Board if you want to learn more about vintage pens. That board is much slower moving but the discussions are much more in depth about pens. Good place to learn about pen esoterica.

 

 

 

5. If you know of anyone selling (or are selling one yourself) that would be a good starter vintage pen, feel free to post it here.

 

I don't sell pens (ever).

 

This is too open of a category. It is easier for you to figure out what you like and go from there.

[estie1948]

Esterbrooks are a great starter pen when getting into vintage pens. First, they are well made of good quality material. The Esterbrook J is my favorite, but there are others with their own favorites. Second, they are easy to repair and maintain. Third, there is a good, trustworthy place to buy them: http://www.andersonpens.net/pens-for-sale/esterbrook/j-series (Brian Anderson here on FTN) and a good place to learn about all the different ones: http://www.esterbrook.net/ (again, Brian Anderson here on FTN). I am not in any way connected to Brian Anderson, Anderson Pens, or Esterbrook.net. and I have listed his sites without his knowledge or permission.

 

When it comes to quality vintage pens, Esterbrooks have a great deal going for them without you having to risk a great deal of money. It is only my opinion, but I hope this helps.

 

-David.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Start with a Pelikan 140 semi-flex nib.

That was my first 'mythical' semi-flex and it was an OB.

Oblique Broad.

Vintage Broad is narrower than modern fat nibs. My OB is a writing nib not a big fat modern 'signature' nib.

 

Look at the classified, or Rick Propas(sp) the US Pelikan guy.

 

I have a Pelikan 140 semi-flex OB , and a Pelikan 400NN, with a maxi-semi-flex/'flexi' OF.

 

I have 8-9 pre'66 German Obliques from OBB to OF.

 

It is it's own pattern, not a CI or a stub. Lots of fun.

[svfd757]

You can (almost) never go wrong with a Parker 51 or a Esterbrook J. Both are made very well and nothing, new or vintage, writes like a P51 (My humble opinion) My vintage collection is modest and consists of mostly beaters. Biggest thing is to do your homework before buying. I am friends with a pen "picker" (one who goes into the wild and finds vintage pens) and he has helped me out a ton with his knowledge. And if it seems too good to be true, avoid it at all costs. Take a look at Richard Binder's site. There is a wealth of knowledge there. (No affiliation blah blah blah)

[jrweaver]

I just started my fountain pen journey and decided to start with vintage pens. I have only 1 right now, a Parker 51, but am already in search of my second and third. My strategy, to start, is to obtain a sample from as many different manufactures as possible. I started with Parker and the 51, because it seemed to be the most sought after pen of it's day and everyone here seems to have one and loves it. I must say I truly love mine, as well. I plan to use my pens on a daily basis and rotate through them on a monthly basis. Here's my planned acquisition list:

 

1. Parker 51 (Obtained)- My next Parker will be a Vacumatic

2. Esterbrook J - My next Estie will be a Dollar

3. Sheaffer Snorkel

4. Pelikan - Haven't decided on a model

4. Waterman 55

5. Conklin - Haven't decided on a model

5. Cross Solo (Probably not considered vintage)

6. Wirt - Anything I can find and can afford!!!

 

Also, I plan to acquire some new pens as well in the form of a Bexley, Edison, Gate City, TWSBI, Noodler, etc.

 

Enjoy!

[jar]

Remember that one man's vintage is another person's modern.

 

If you consider "vintage" as over 50 years old then you are entering what I think was the Golden Age of fountain pen, those made in the 50s, 60s and 70s; pens like the Sheaffer Targas and Imperials; Parker 45 and 75; Waterman's Gentleman.

 

One of the best things about those listed above is that it is very likely that they will need no repairs at all.

Edited February 3, 2012 by jar

[Scribblesoften]

It is easy to buy a lot of pens that you may regret. If you have a pen shop or show in your area try different pens out. Try to find a style or brand of pen, nib, material that you like and focus your efforts and finances. Happy hunting.

[torstar]

Parker 51s held my interest a few years back, bought a few disappointments.

 

Then I obtained one with a bold nib that writes like a Sharpie marker.

 

That ended my elusive search in complete contentment.

[OldGriz]

Hello Fountain Pen Pals!

 

I'm back with another question. I've been in a mod to learn a lot lately.

 

So here's my next question:

 

Thanks again!

I will try to answer you questions as asked to be best of my ability and experience.

 

I am thinking of getting started in vintage pen collecting. As there are sooooooo many different vintage pens out there, I thought it would be impractical to ask for specific suggestions on which pens to get, so instead I have a couple of questions. Feel free to answer any one of them, or all of them.

 

1. What do *you* look for in a vintage pen? What's important to you in one?

This can be tricky as we all have different criteria in what is important. To me the pen must fit into my collection (I am primarily a Parker collector). However I do have some pens in my collection because they are just so damned interesting... usually the an odd filler system

As for what I look for.... Even though I am a restorer, I still try to find a pen in the best possible condition in the price point I can afford. I.E, you can find a Parker Vacumatic for $40.00 that needs a bunch of work to make it a good writer or you can purchase an identical pen from a reputable dealer and restorer for about $100 that you know is ready to write and looks good and is a good example of the pen. Some pens like Parker 51 Aerometrics rarely if ever need any professional restoration, so you can concentrate some of that extra funding on how good the pen looks or how uncommon an example of the 51 line it is.

 

2. Are there any good starter guides out there for collecting vintage pens?

There are a bunch of great books on fountain pens available, unfortunately none of them have anywhere near accurate value information.... the market just moves to quickly

 

3. Where do you buy them? I have no pen shops anywhere close to me, so online is my only real option...

I purchase most of my pens from eBay or local estate sale auctions.... but then again as I mentioned I am a restorer and work on my own pens as well as customer pens so I have an edge here in pricing. Pen shows are also always a good place to find vintage pens

 

4. Any other general tips for finding/ selecting vintage pens?

Not really.... either find a couple of dealers you feel you can trust and pay more for a pen you can trust to be right or take the chance with eBay and estate sales and the like and hope it does not cost to much to repair later on

 

5. If you know of anyone selling (or are selling one yourself) that would be a good starter vintage pen, feel free to post it here.

There are a lot of good sellers online. I like to consider myself one (see my link below), Ron Zorn and Richard Binder and Joel Hamilton always have a good selection of nicely restored pens also.

Plus the classifieds here generally have some good pens by good members....

Edited February 3, 2012 by OldGriz

[OcalaFlGuy]

I would certainly agree that with vintage pens, knowledge is power. The more you know about a particular pen you're interested in, the better the chance you'll get a nice one.

 

If you aren't willing to learn all you can about the pens weak points (and they ALL have some), aren't willing to be patient and ask questions of the sellers and wait for their answers then Fleabay can be a dangerous place for you as a pen buyer. I often use the analogy of would you go into a jewelry store and have the owner say, "No, you can't look at the piece, no, you can't touch it, and no, I won't answer any questions about it" and you would still buy the piece? Remarkably, people throw their money away **just like that** on pens on Ebay all the time.

 

One of the best places to buy vintage pens is in the Marketplace here from a few well known but less than Top Tier retailing restorers. Farmersmums, Penfisher, Tom Heath and Rick Krantz come to mind. When it comes to P-51's and Esterbrooks, the first two here probably offer The Most pen for the buck.

 

I'll agree that P-51's and Esties are great vintage places to start.

 

http://roossinck.wordpress.com/page/2/

 

OTOH, *IF* you are willing to take the time to educate yourself on the pens you are interested in, and are willing to ask the needed questions to separate "the wheat from the chaff", then Fleabay can be a great nearly unequaled source of vintage pens.

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

[Truman]

I ordered a neat little book called "Collecting Fountain Pens...A Primer for Newer Collectors" by Joel Hamilton and Sherrell Tyree. They are pen restorers www.ink-pen.com. The book runs you through the basics of what to look for and consider when shopping for vintage pens.

[nxn96]

Everyone comes to this in their own way. In my own case, it was having some old fountain pens around the house that we were allowed to play with when we were young (back in the early 1960's). I never lost the interest in fountain pens; using mostly then-modern Sheaffers and Parkers. Some of them (like my Cisele 75 and my Gold Imperial) were bought new and are now "vintage"; still, I never lost the interest. If I can give you two pieces of advice, it would be these:

 

First, do your research. There is a vast amount of "stuff" out there about vintage pens. Because my interest was mostly in the Sheaffer/Parker world, it was easy to narrow down what I was most interested in learning about; but keep in mind that there's a world of Esterbrooks, Watermans, Wahl/Eversharps, etc. that are well worth your attention. Pick a couple, do your research, and expand later. It's a process.

 

Second, as part of your research, think about where you should make your initial purchase. I like eBay, and overall, haven't done bad by eBay. However, having purchased my first "51"s in "write-ready" condition from a known seller, I found I could better compare what was on the "Bay" versus what I had in hand.

 

Actually, I have a third piece of advice: Have fun.

 

Hope this helps.

[tricnomistal]

TO EVERYONE:

 

Everyone here answers questions with a ridiculous quickness. For this, I thank you.

 

I will enjoy reading all of your valuable opinions! Thanks for the help!

 

A note on Parker 51's: I have head lots of good things about how well these pens write, an I like the design of the pens themselves, but I can't decide whether or not I like the tiny nib... I will have to deliberate more upon them and get back to you...

[OcalaFlGuy]

A note on Parker 51's: I have head lots of good things about how well these pens write, an I like the design of the pens themselves, but I can't decide whether or not I like the tiny nib... I will have to deliberate more upon them and get back to you...

 

Perhaps check out the Parker 61. It has a GREAT BIG > Arrow inlaid in the hood pointing right to that little nib so there's no wondering where it is.

 

If you tend to stick to one ink and it's not a super saturated one, the capillary model should do fine and there is a converter/cartridge model.

 

The 61 was supposed to be the successor to the 51 and there are those (Hi Richard and Tracy!) who think they write better than a 51.

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

[tricnomistal]

I should also ask, does it take a lot of capital to begin restoring pens? For example, if I were to buy my own vintage pens and restore them myself. I understand that a considerable amount of research and learning will be involved, but I have ambition up the ying-yang. What I have in less copious quantity is money...

[fpman]

Depends on the restoration. Many vintage pens will be lever fillers that need a simple sac change. For that you need the right size sac (normally rubber), some shellac to fasten and seal the sac to the pen, and some powdered talc (so the new sac doesn't catch on the internal workings in the barrel. $2 for a sac, a small amount of talc (which you can buy in the FPN marketplace) is $3, a small bottle of pre-mixed shellac can run $3-$7 (pre-mixed has a limited shelf life, a couple of years more or less).

 

That's the absolute basics. You might want something to clean and polish the plastic of the pen (and there are many kinds of materials, different kinds of plastic or even other substances like metal or hard rubber), something to clean and polish the metal work, ammonia to help clean the ink from the nib, micromesh to smooth the nib or buff our small scratches, scrapers to scrape out the old sac remains in the pen barrel, alligator forceps to allow you to pull our the lever bar to check and maybe clean it (of rust or dirt), a sonic cleaner (also for cleaning nibs, feeds and pen parts), a heat gun to help with balky sections (which refuse to separate from the barrel).

 

And the list can go on. And these are for simple repairs of one type of vintage pen (lever fillers). Other filler types (like plunger fillers, piston fillers, button fillers, et al) will require other tools and methods of restoration.

 

Restorations can get a lot more complicated - if you've got a bad nib that needs to be replaced or repaired, if you've got cracks in the section or barrel, etc.

 

Low end lever fillers, like Wearevers, Scripto's, and others can be picked up cheaply enough that you won't cry too hard if you mess up and by working on them you'll develop the skills to work on nicer and more valuable pens.

 

And your mistakes will actually provide parts you can use in future restorations (hopefully).

[Bo Bo Olson]

I chase old pens. Most have been sitting in the back of a drawer for a generation or two.

The 'iridium' tip has developed some micro-corrosion.

 

I favor the least abrasive methods of smoothing off that micro-corrosion that would be the brown paper bag trick. (One can use a card board box if high quality brown paper bags are scarce in your neighborhood.)

Micro-mesh is much more abrasive.

If the 'brown paper bag trick' don't work one can always go to micro-mesh.

Micro-mesh is good if you are going to be grinding your own nibs. There is a difference between that and smoothing. If one don't take good care one could be learning to re-grind a nib because of excess smoothing.

 

Brown Paper bag trick.

Make sure your tines are aligned. You need a good once in a life time buy of a 10-12X loupe. Good glass and good coating. Buy cheap get cheap and buy again.

 

In fifteen second sets. 4-6 sets max.

While rotating the nib, to prevent flat spots, write circles left, right, squiggles up and down, left and right. Then do figure 8's.

Check by writing on paper after each set.

 

If the nib has not smoothed up a lot after 4-6 sets max, then get out the micro-mesh.

 

Be careful of the micro-mesh, it is much more abrasive than the brown paper bag.

 

Another point to keep in mind. Butter smooth is not always what you want in a nib.

Read up on that.

Many noobies think butter smooth is the all of fountain pens. Smooth is good, a tad of tooth can be nice especially if you have real smooth paper. Too smooth a nib then can like like running into a patch of oil on the road in the middle of a curve on your motorcycle.

 

Tad of tooth=feedback.

 

Some think that is scratchy. There is feedback and there is scratchy. Eventually one learns the difference.

Fountain pen knowledge is built on experience.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Bo Bo Olson