arm movement question

[jcopens]

I have just begun studying "The Champion Method of Practical Business Writing" in an effort to learn to write more correctly (thanks, btw, to member FLZapped for listing the IAMPETH website in the "Handwriting improvement, Any general tips? "thread - I obtained the pdf there...).

 

In regard to the arm motion, when writing a single letter or word, is the forearm supposed to slide on the surface of the desk/table/et al, or does the the elbow and skin in contact with the surface remain stationary while the muscle and flesh shift? I've noticed several references to 'pivoting around the elbow joint', but I'm not sure if that means the elbow itself stays put.

 

Thanks for any advice or information,

 

jcopens

[lefty928]

Can't help you, because I wonder how it's done also. I've learned from posts here that I "finger-write." As the side of my hand normally rests quite firmly on the writing surface, lifting it feels unnatural when I try some of the recommended whole arm movements stemming from the shoulder girdle. My handwriting gets wavery -- and a little sloppy looking.

[Anne-Sophie]

I have just begun studying "The Champion Method of Practical Business Writing" in an effort to learn to write more correctly (thanks, btw, to member FLZapped for listing the IAMPETH website in the "Handwriting improvement, Any general tips? "thread - I obtained the pdf there...).

 

In regard to the arm motion, when writing a single letter or word, is the forearm supposed to slide on the surface of the desk/table/et al, or does the the elbow and skin in contact with the surface remain stationary while the muscle and flesh shift?  I've noticed several references to 'pivoting around the elbow joint', but I'm not sure if that means the elbow itself stays put.

 

Thanks for any advice or information,

 

jcopens

While you are writing, the forearm that is holding the pen is rotating left, center and right, depending on where you are on the paper. Assuming you are using letter size paper, the elbow lies at the bottom of the pad, approximately in the center.

 

While you write you should move, the pad or the letter paper up, so that your forearm is always supported.

 

If you are using let say a memo pad, junior size, your forearm and hand only has to rotate at a very small angle.

 

When a 3x5 notepad is used there is no rotation.

 

 

I was taught that way of writing at school and at home.

 

 

If you do lots of writing on the go, a letter pad holder is very useful because it provides support, some letter size agendas can do the same thing.

Edited December 17, 2006 by Anne-Sophie

[jcopens]

Can't help you, because I wonder how it's done also. I've learned from posts here that I "finger-write." As the side of my hand normally rests quite firmly on the writing surface, lifting it feels unnatural when I try some of the recommended whole arm movements stemming from the shoulder girdle. My handwriting gets wavery -- and a little sloppy looking.

I can relate to you - my writing style is very much "finger writing;" It's not really that bad - a lot of people think it looks really nice, but I get frustrated with little inconsistencies.

 

Anyway, you're mentioning how your writing looked 'wavy' and 'sloppy' when you tried whole-arm movements is completely normal; from what I've read, you have to do a lot of 'arm training' to learn/convert to the whole-arm/free arm method, including a lot of motion exercises, but if you stick with it, you'll end up with great handwriting. At this point, I'm trying to make sure I'm doing it right so I don't hinder my progress.

[johnr55]

If I only use the hand and wrist for movement I get horrible writer's cramp--as I have all my life. I use some arm movement always, but don't shift the arm around. Unfortunately, I have plenty of flesh to move between the wrist and elbow anyway! I'd think that'd get pain for really skinny arms--

[lefty928]

Anyway, you're mentioning how your writing looked 'wavy' and 'sloppy' when you tried whole-arm movements is completely normal; from what I've read, you have to do a lot of 'arm training' to learn/convert to the whole-arm/free arm method, including a lot of motion exercises, but if you stick with it, you'll end up with great handwriting. At this point, I'm trying to make sure I'm doing it right so I don't hinder my progress.

I think that the wavering comes from my forearm not, as Anne-Sophie points out, having the usual support. Like you, my fingerwriting results in cursive that looks just fine, but I thought it made sense when I read somewhere that whole arm movements are more efficient and less tiring. After all, I don't keep my hand stationery when I draw. Hmm...there's a thought. Why am I capable of moving the whole arm when I draw? Must think about this ... And thanks, johnr55, for the idea that I don't have to shift my arm around. Must also experiment with that, and figure out how that elbow pivoting would work.

Good luck, jcopens, in your studies. I'm sure you'll master the arm movement thing and hope to see a sample of your new practical business writing hand here someday.

[jcopens]

So Lefty928, as you mentioned, "when I draw", are you an artist as well as a penman?

[lefty928]

So Lefty928, as you mentioned, "when I draw", are you an artist as well as a penman?

Nah, I'm not a professional fine artist, I just attend the occasional class or workshop. As I deal with words in my professional life, I enjoy taking a break from the verbal side of things when I can.

[paolimd]

Arm movement, as A. N. Palmer taught it, meant resting your forearm at the muscles just in front of the elbow joint. The elbow doesn't really moves: it pivots there. Only the last two fingers of the hand holding the pen should glide as you write.

 

BTW, there should be just three points of contact: the pen tip, and the fingers of the hand and fleshy part of the elbow, as mentioned before. Neither the hand nor the wrist should touch the paper.

 

Mary L. Champion was a graduate of Zaner College, and wrote with a very similar style as Palmer's.

 

While visiting IAMPHET, go to Business Writing links. You'll find many good examples, and the complete courses on line, of

Commercial Calligraphy.

 

Also, www.zanerian.com has some calligraphy, as well as a short biography, on Ms. Champion.

 

Good luck and, keep practicing.

[jcopens]

Arm movement, as A. N. Palmer taught it, meant resting your forearm at the muscles just in front of the elbow joint. The elbow doesn't really moves: it pivots there. Only the last two fingers of the hand holding the pen should glide as you write.

 

BTW, there should be just three points of contact: the pen tip, and the fingers of the hand and fleshy part of the elbow, as mentioned before. Neither the hand nor the wrist should touch the paper.

 

Mary L. Champion was a graduate of Zaner College, and wrote with a very similar style as Palmer's.

 

While visiting IAMPHET, go to Business Writing links. You'll find many good examples, and the complete courses on line, of

Commercial Calligraphy.

 

Also, www.zanerian.com has some calligraphy, as well as a short biography, on Ms. Champion.

 

Good luck and, keep practicing.

Thanks for the information! You mentioned one of the contact points as "the fleshy part of the elbow"...well, I'm pretty lean to say the least, so my elbow doesn't really have a 'fleshy part', but that got me to wondering; should my elbow even be resting on the desk/writing surface, or should it hang just off the edge? Practicing with my elbow on the desk has given me somewhat of a sore elbow joint! :blink:

 

BTW, I've been consulting "Palmer's Penmanship Budget" as well.

[FLZapped]

Arm movement, as A. N. Palmer taught it, meant resting your forearm at the muscles just in front of the elbow joint. The elbow doesn't really moves: it pivots there. Only the last two fingers of the hand holding the pen should glide as you write.

 

BTW, there should be just three points of contact: the pen tip, and the fingers of the hand and fleshy part of the elbow, as mentioned before. Neither the hand nor the wrist should touch the paper.

 

Mary L. Champion was a graduate of Zaner College, and wrote with a very similar style as Palmer's.

 

While visiting IAMPHET, go to Business Writing links. You'll find many good examples, and the complete courses on line, of

Commercial Calligraphy.

 

Also, www.zanerian.com has some calligraphy, as well as a short biography, on Ms. Champion.

 

Good luck and, keep practicing.

Thanks for the information! You mentioned one of the contact points as "the fleshy part of the elbow"...well, I'm pretty lean to say the least, so my elbow doesn't really have a 'fleshy part', but that got me to wondering; should my elbow even be resting on the desk/writing surface, or should it hang just off the edge? Practicing with my elbow on the desk has given me somewhat of a sore elbow joint! :blink:

 

BTW, I've been consulting "Palmer's Penmanship Budget" as well.

When I learned to write here in South Florida, AC wasn't the norm, so arm movement meant first lifting your arm to unstick it from the desktop surface . . . .

 

--Bruce

 

:ltcapd: :ltcapd: :roflmho: :roflmho: :ltcapd: :ltcapd:

[paolimd]

ICOPENS:

 

If you see "Palmer's Penmanship Budget", I believe it shows a picture with the correct position of the forearm/elbow/hand. The elbow-the bony part-should rest on the writing surface, with the arm separated from the body. Now, if you get a sore joint, you may slightly move it downward, keeping it away from the desk (like "hanging it on the air", so to speak.) The elbow shoul never be raised nor changed from position while writing; it acts as a pivot

 

Try this: put forearm on the desk, in front of you, in a writing position, palm down and facing the desk, but without a pen nor pencil. Clench your fist and raise it so that neither fingers, side of the hand nor wrist touch the desk. In this position, only the fleshy part of the forearm, that's closest to the elbow, should be touching the desk.

 

Now, try to move your forearm back and forth, in sort of a straight line. This is muscular movement, the force that drives the forearm coming from the shoulder and arm.

 

As soon as I can, I'll be sending you some links which will show you, in pictures and drawings, what I've mentioned here, so you may have a clear image of what I mean. Now, this is all Palmer's instructions; none of this is my own.

 

Feel free to ask for help; I enjoy this.

 

BTW: IAMPHET also has the COMPLETE Champion method of handwriting on line.

 

Have a very Merry, "calligraphic" Christmas.

 

J. O. Paoli, M. D.

[jcopens]

ICOPENS:

 

If you see "Palmer's Penmanship Budget", I believe it shows a picture with the correct position of the forearm/elbow/hand. The elbow-the bony part-should rest on the writing surface, with the arm separated from the body. Now, if you get a sore joint, you may slightly move it downward, keeping it away from the desk (like "hanging it on the air", so to speak.) The elbow shoul never be raised nor changed from position while writing; it acts as a pivot

 

Try this: put forearm on the desk, in front of you, in a writing position, palm down and facing the desk, but without a pen nor pencil. Clench your fist and raise it so that neither fingers, side of the hand nor wrist touch the desk. In this position, only the fleshy part of the forearm, that's closest to the elbow, should be touching the desk.

 

Now, try to move your forearm back and forth, in sort of a straight line. This is muscular movement, the force that drives the forearm coming from the shoulder and arm.

 

As soon as I can, I'll be sending you some links which will show you, in pictures and drawings, what I've mentioned here, so you may have a clear image of what I mean. Now, this is all Palmer's instructions; none of this is my own.

 

Feel free to ask for help; I enjoy this.

 

BTW: IAMPHET also has the COMPLETE Champion method of handwriting on line.

 

Have a very Merry, "calligraphic" Christmas.

 

J. O. Paoli, M. D.

Thank you very much for those tips! I had viewed the diagrams from Palmer's, but I appreciate the elaboration on them. I would gladly accept any other links you can provide as well. As for my delayed response here, I've been out of town and just gained decent internet access yesterday...

 

I haven't had many opportunities to practice this past week, but I can sure say that it's going to be a slow process getting it right! I'm awed by the uniformity of the examples given in the Champion and Palmer's guides, especially if that represents what an accomplished penman can generate 'at speed!' And after looking at websites for masters like John DeCollibus (www.beyondwordsscript.com) and Michael Sull (www.spencerian.com), I think I may be developing an itch to take up flexnib writing!

 

Thanks again for your expertise!

 

JCopens