Modern Pens With Flex

[ra9una]

So I am fairly curious and recently I've been fascinated by flex nibs (I'm sure most of you get why) now, even though I'm not planing to buy one just yet that doesn't stop me from looking around and doing some research. the thing I found though is that most--all, good flex nib to my knowledge are on vintage pens (Duh, sort of obvious once you do the reaserch) and to tell the truth I'm not a big fan of vintage pens. So what modern, relatively modern pens, have a good "feasible" flex nib. I know the Lamy 2000, though not an actual semi-flex nib is some what more flexible then most modern pens but aside from that I really have no idea.

 

thanks

[River]

1. New Noodlers "Ahab" pen with flex nib = best value at $20

 

2. Pilot / Namiki Falcon

 

3. Pilot Custom with FA (Falcon) nib

 

4. Stipula Model T flex (titanium nib)

 

I think there are a few more, like a Visconti.

[sessyargc]

Pilot has several nibs which are quite springy. The "Soft"-series Soft Fine, Soft Fine Medium, and Soft Medium. Then there is the Pilot FAlcon nib. These nibs can be fitted on the Custom Heritage 912, Custom 743 and Custom 742 line of from Pilot. Browse down to the "Pens from the Land of the Rising Sun" sub fora for some discussion about them.

 

They satisfy my needs for a responsive nib.

Edited November 25, 2011 by sessyargc

[Silent Speaker]

Springs and nails is all that's left.

 

Unless you get a nibmeister or custom pen maker to custom grind a nib for flex, there are no really flexible new nibs out there, and by that I mean nibs which were really designed to be kinda soft for 'flexing' with the exception of the Stipula T-flex titanium nib (I've seen a vid by Bryant of the Stipula nib in action but he had modified the pen's feed in order to flex the nib more than the standard configuration - I've never tried this pen so I don't know what it's capable of or what it feels like to use out of the box).

 

And obviously, with exception of the Noodler's Flex Pens (and now, Ahab) - though whether you want to call these 'flex' when they really 'spread' is a matter of debate (but as far as I'm concerned they give you what you want from a 'flexible nib' - pressure induced line variation, so the point if moot.)

 

There is however the Pelikan M1000, and the Pilot FA (falcon) nibs, though from what I've tried and what I've seen they are not the same as "vintage flex", and if all you're looking for in a pen is "pressure induced line variation", then don't bother to fork out the cash for one of these (especially the m1000, which can be kinda pricey); you'll get better results with the Noodler's pens.

 

If you want superb pens that just happen to have springy nibs (springier/softer/'more flexible' than most out there that is), then give them a look.

 

I believe the first release of the Visconti 23ct Pd "Dreamtouch" nibs possessed 'flexy' qualities; I don't know anything concerning their status now (I think I remember hearing that later nibs were made less springy for the sake of customers who were not used to such nibs, but then, that's what I remember reading).

 

So, nothing else comes to mind right now; if you want a flexible nib, go vintage (though that can be the luck of the draw - and vintage pens have a greater likelihood of being... 'finicky' than modern pens).

 

Or, just try the Noodler's pens and see if that satisfies your flex-appetite.

Edited November 24, 2011 by Silent Speaker

[ra9una]

Springs and nails is all that's left.

 

Unless you get a nibmeister or custom pen maker to custom grind a nib for flex, there are no really flexible new nibs out there, and by that I mean nibs which were really designed to be kinda soft for 'flexing' with the exception of the Stipula T-flex titanium nib (I've seen a vid by Bryant of the Stipula nib in action but he had modified the pen's feed in order to flex the nib more than the standard configuration - I've never tried this pen so I don't know what it's capable of or what it feels like to use out of the box).

 

And obviously, with exception of the Noodler's Flex Pens (and now, Ahab) - though whether you want to call these 'flex' when they really 'spread' is a matter of debate (but as far as I'm concerned they give you what you want from a 'flexible nib' - pressure induced line variation, so the point if moot.)

 

There is however the Pelikan M1000, and the Pilot FA (falcon) nibs, though from what I've tried and what I've seen they are not the same as "vintage flex", and if all you're looking for in a pen is "pressure induced line variation", then don't bother to fork out the cash for one of these (especially the m1000, which can be kinda pricey); you'll get better results with the Noodler's pens.

 

If you want superb pens that just happen to have springy nibs (springier/softer/'more flexible' than most out there that is), then give them a look.

 

I believe the first release of the Visconti 23ct Pd "Dreamtouch" nibs possessed 'flexy' qualities; I don't know anything concerning their status now (I think I remember hearing that later nibs were made less springy for the sake of customers who were not used to such nibs, but then, that's what I remember reading).

 

So, nothing else comes to mind right now; if you want a flexible nib, go vintage (though that can be the luck of the draw - and vintage pens have a greater likelihood of being... 'finicky' than modern pens).

 

Or, just try the Noodler's pens and see if that satisfies your flex-appetite.

 

Yeah, that's about what I was expecting, tough I'm not thinking of a pen for artistic use (in which case the noodlers and ahab are unbeatable) I would like to find a pen (That I love) with a decent flex capacity.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Vintage pens cost 'less' than modern; many times much less. Restored a bit more; with the proper nib flex you wish.

 

Pens were like baseball hats, one size did not fit all like today.

 

If you have not developed a Hand, Noodlers is good in case one don't like it.

[hari317]

The Pilot SM nib found on the Custom 74/742/743 series pens gives me excellent line variation.

[richardandtracy]

There is te Delta Titanio (did a review of the one I was loaned). Must admit I was glad the one I tried was a loan pen and not mine. The Titanium nib was very stiff to flex.

 

I have a Mabie Todd 'Blackbird' that cost me £15, dates back to c1920 and has a lever filler. It's a wonderful, reliable little pen. Cannot fault it one little bit. The nib is a great intro to flex, and doesn't either overflex or cost a packet. https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/206088-mabie-todd-blackbird-lever-filler-c1920/ .

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

[Florida Blue]

18kt gold modern Cross nibs.

 

I don't know if this true for all recent gold Cross nibs across the board but it is for the two that I own.

 

What's unique about these nibs is their size compared to most 18kt gold nibs I've seen or used. Typically 18kt gold nibs are very large whereas these Cross nibs are tiny in comparison. This means that the slit reaches almost half-way down the length of the exposed nib. The shoulders of the nib are long and thin vs. short and fat like on wider nibs that you may find on many luxury pens.

 

I own a Cross Apogee in the chrome, guilloche finish that has considerable flex going from a medium to probably a BB.

 

I recently picked up a Cross Suavage in Azurite Blue Crocodile enamel with a similar tiny, 18kt gold nib in a fine. I can easily produce a B/BB with some pressure.

 

I consider these pens to be bargains since they can be had new for well under $200. I bought my Apogee for $82 on clearance and my Suavage for $130 from Amazon.com.

 

People talk about Lamy or Pelikan being value-priced but that's because they've never tried a Cross!

 

http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae149/thefancyman/DSCF5718.jpg

Edited November 24, 2011 by Florida Blue

[sessyargc]

Yeah, that's about what I was expecting, tough I'm not thinking of a pen for artistic use (in which case the noodlers and ahab are unbeatable) I would like to find a pen (That I love) with a decent flex capacity.

 

If its not for artistic use then the current pens mentioned by most should suffice your requirements. You might find the Pilots bland and boring but I love the nib selection that they have. Or get a vintage Swan or a flexible Eversharp :-) I have both and they both put my flex writing skills to shame :-( But if you're just testing the waters, then the Noodler's will probably be great starters since it will be the cheapest. If you liked the flex then move up the flex ladder by getting a vintage or one of the newer pens with a flexible nib.

[andybiotic]

I will quote a passage from Mauricio's article on "The Beauty of a Great Flexible Nib":

"To this date, no modern pen or nib manufacturer has been able to replicate the true attributes of a real vintage flexible nib, no one!"

 

 

Edited: Quote taken out.

Edited November 25, 2011 by andybiotic

[Mauricio]

So I am fairly curious and recently I've been fascinated by flex nibs (I'm sure most of you get why) now, even though I'm not planing to buy one just yet that doesn't stop me from looking around and doing some research. the thing I found though is that most--all, good flex nib to my knowledge are on vintage pens (Duh, sort of obvious once you do the reaserch) and to tell the truth I'm not a big fan of vintage pens. So what modern, relatively modern pens, have a good "feasible" flex nib. I know the Lamy 2000, though not an actual semi-flex nib is some what more flexible then most modern pens but aside from that I really have no idea.

 

thanks

 

ra9una,

 

It all depends on your definition of what a "feasible" flex nibs is. One of the best options is the Namiki Falcon pen ... as long as you understand that this nib is more springy than flexy and that the pen was not designed for huge flexibility as its feed is unable to provide ideal ink flow under these circumstances. If vintage pens are not your thing, you may also want to consider installing a vintage flexible nib into a modern pen, but leave that nib setup for a competent individual who knows how to write with these nibs as there are a lof of nuances when setting up flex nibs into fountain pens.

 

 

I will quote a passage from Mauricio's article on "The Beauty of a Great Flexible Nib":

"To this date, no modern pen or nib manufacturer has been able to replicate the true attributes of a real vintage flexible nib, no one!"

 

A main reason being (from the same article):

 

"And as such, Esterbrook "flexible" nibs (similar to many "modern "flexible" nibs) are virtually nail nibs capable of spreading the tines apart, forming a "V" shape in the slit of the nib (like the baldes in a pair of scissors). However, the tines barely arch when flexed like a true vintage 14K gold nib. The inability of the nib to substantially arch its tines is a HUGE detriment to true flexy writing. By having two very firm tines spreading out, you can get line variation, but there is very little responsiveness in these nibs. They are in fact, lettargic nibs with close to zero responsiveness."

 

Andybiotic,

 

Sorry to let you know you have quoted a paragraph from my website, but you have placed it out of context. If you read the entire context of my observation, I clearly make reference to the vintage nibs made by Esterbrook which were labeled as "flexible" nibs. Those nibs were made out of rigid steel ... Most modern pens are fitted with 14K gold nibs, meaning that my observation about vintage Esterbrook nibs does not apply to the vast majority of modern pens.

 

No harm done here. I just want to clarify the nib observation I made in my website.

Edited November 25, 2011 by Mauricio

[ra9una]

So I am fairly curious and recently I've been fascinated by flex nibs (I'm sure most of you get why) now, even though I'm not planing to buy one just yet that doesn't stop me from looking around and doing some research. the thing I found though is that most--all, good flex nib to my knowledge are on vintage pens (Duh, sort of obvious once you do the reaserch) and to tell the truth I'm not a big fan of vintage pens. So what modern, relatively modern pens, have a good "feasible" flex nib. I know the Lamy 2000, though not an actual semi-flex nib is some what more flexible then most modern pens but aside from that I really have no idea.

 

thanks

 

ra9una,

 

It all depends on your definition of what a "feasible" flex nibs is. One of the best options is the Namiki Falcon pen ... as long as you understand that this nib is more springy than flexy and that the pen was not designed for huge flexibility as its feed is unable to provide ideal ink flow under these circumstances. If vintage pens are not your thing, you may also want to consider installing a vintage flexible nib into a modern pen, but leave that nib setup for a competent individual who knows how to write with these nibs as there are a lof of nuances when setting up flex nibs into fountain pens.

 

 

I will quote a passage from Mauricio's article on "The Beauty of a Great Flexible Nib":

"To this date, no modern pen or nib manufacturer has been able to replicate the true attributes of a real vintage flexible nib, no one!"

 

A main reason being (from the same article):

 

"And as such, Esterbrook "flexible" nibs (similar to many "modern "flexible" nibs) are virtually nail nibs capable of spreading the tines apart, forming a "V" shape in the slit of the nib (like the baldes in a pair of scissors). However, the tines barely arch when flexed like a true vintage 14K gold nib. The inability of the nib to substantially arch its tines is a HUGE detriment to true flexy writing. By having two very firm tines spreading out, you can get line variation, but there is very little responsiveness in these nibs. They are in fact, lettargic nibs with close to zero responsiveness."

 

Andybiotic,

 

Sorry to let you know you have quoted a paragraph from my website, but you have placed it out of context. If you read the entire context of my observation, I clearly make reference to the vintage nibs made by Esterbrook which were labeled as "flexible" nibs. Those nibs were made out of rigid steel ... Most modern pens are fitted with 14K gold nibs, meaning that my observation about vintage Esterbrook nibs does not apply to the vast majority of modern pens.

 

No harm done here. I just want to clarify the nib observation I made in my website.

 

Thank you for that explanation, in truth I'm only curious as to what modern pens have any flex and how much, I'm not really looking for a flex pen with tremendous line variation, if i were I think installing a true flex nib on a modern pen would be my best option. The problem is I don't like doing thing half way so I would have to make my own pen (I am somewhat of a crafts person.....a little at least.) and that's quite a project since I would need to order a feed and make a mold for the barrel....and.......make...the barrel, anyway, you get the idea, I don't want to have someone else do it but I also don't have the time to do it my self at the moment, no worries tough, I'm in no hurry, just looking around.

[andybiotic]

Ok, sorry about that, I will take that quote off from my original post.

 

I do know that it was your observation on specifically the Esterbrook flexible nibs and that it was NOT used to explain the difference between modern and vintage flex nibs. It is just that I personally feel the description in the article apply very nicely to the modern flex as well.

 

Those such as the noodler's flex pen and the more springy gold nibs like the Pelican m1000 (for whom many said to be slightly flexible) and the falcon, although they all use a slightly different physics to spread the tines, in my own observation, they are quite similar to the Esterbrook flexible steel nibs I have used, where the tines are pushed out mostly sideways with very small degree of arching/bending upwards.

 

Unless of course you press real hard and in such case anything will bend.

 

Just to be clear, although I don't own a m1000, but I've seen one in action.

 

Also, interestingly, I have a yard-O-Led Corinthian and the nib also "flexes/springs" very similarly to the esterbrook and m1000!

Edited November 25, 2011 by andybiotic

[max dog]

18kt gold modern Cross nibs.

 

I don't know if this true for all recent gold Cross nibs across the board but it is for the two that I own.

 

What's unique about these nibs is their size compared to most 18kt gold nibs I've seen or used. Typically 18kt gold nibs are very large whereas these Cross nibs are tiny in comparison. This means that the slit reaches almost half-way down the length of the exposed nib. The shoulders of the nib are long and thin vs. short and fat like on wider nibs that you may find on many luxury pens.

 

I own a Cross Apogee in the chrome, guilloche finish that has considerable flex going from a medium to probably a BB.

 

I recently picked up a Cross Suavage in Azurite Blue Crocodile enamel with a similar tiny, 18kt gold nib in a fine. I can easily produce a B/BB with some pressure.

 

I consider these pens to be bargains since they can be had new for well under $200. I bought my Apogee for $82 on clearance and my Suavage for $130 from Amazon.com.

 

People talk about Lamy or Pelikan being value-priced but that's because they've never tried a Cross!

 

http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae149/thefancyman/DSCF5718.jpg

 

 

The new Cross pens these day I notice have more flex in the nib then the older ones I have from 2 or more years ago. Bought a new Century II and ATX medium nib, and both yield some flex, especially the ATX. You can get a little line variation.

[River]

It is strange to me that you can't get a flex nib, because they still make them for dip pens. Some of these nibs are truly flexy--almost like a brush.

 

Some people here have even fitted these nibs onto fountain pens, but there are issues with the shape and fit.

[andybiotic]

Some people here have even fitted these nibs onto fountain pens, but there are issues with the shape and fit.

 

Not to mention keeping it rust-free!

[georges zaslavsky]

I would say pelikan m1000 and older generations of m800s, Omas Arte Italiana Paragon, Stipula Eritruria, Montegrappa Extra 1930 and Duponts

[fenriz]

No one anneals gold anymore; this is why we can no longer find flexible modern nibs. It was a painstaking process by which metal was heated to a certain temperature and cooled again to give it certain tensile properties. Any vintage flexible gold nib would have undergone this process, but it is too labor-intensive and either the market no longer supports it, or no one cares enough anymore, not enough demand for it, but either way, they just don't make them anymore!

 

The only alternative is the "mechanically" flexible nib (or otherwise altered nibs, Binder, etc.). Nakaya offers these, and the Pilot FA (aka "FAlcon" nib) is nearly identical, with little half circle cutaways at the shoulders of the nib that allow the tines to splay out a little. Pilot's Falcon pen also has a mechanically flexible nib, and its springiness or near flexibility is achieved in some other way which I don't entirely understand. I can't say much else about Pilot's Falcon pen, other than that I've never liked them when I've tried them, but I can speak for my Pilot 742 w/FA nib- THE FEED DOES NOT KEEP UP WITH THE NIB!! It is a disaster. The nib springs along and, to me, feels much like a flexible old Waterman's #2 or #4 gold nib from a century ago. But without the right feed and ink flow, you've got no line, only frustration. I had someone look at it, experiment with the feed, etc. and nothing has worked. It just sits in a drawer. I'm hanging onto the nib and will probably try to fit it to a flat feed with an ED body, or something. Maybe I'll try it with a Skyline feed and turn the barrel of the 742 into an ED. Or maybe I'll try to put this FA nib into a Skyline feed/body.

 

Visconti has experimented with palladium, and I've tried nice ones and bad ones- they're inconsistent. Titanium can have the right flexible feel, but feeds never keep up. This will always be the problem until manufacturers realize that a flexible nib REQUIRES a robust feed of ink. Flexible pens always write wet, and this is how the proper flow is achieved and maintained when the tines are spread apart.

 

I haven't tried Noodlers' Ahab yet, and I'm looking forward to it. I hope that feed is up to the flow! Good luck!!

[phrenzy]

Fenriz, do you mean you've tried different models of palladium nib on different pens that have been good or bad or do you mean the consistency of the Visconti nibs ispecifically sn't great and you might get a good or bad one?

 

I don't have much experience with flex nibs but my cross townsend has pretty great variation the f nib I have goes from spiderweb to much wider than my medium lamys.

 

Ive also recently bought but havnt yet received a couple brause dip nibs including a 361 that are supposed to be pretty flexible, I've been trying to track down a brause no.86 but to to avail. My understanding is that a flex/balloon dip nib is the way to go if you wan real flex from something you can buy new...