Using An Ultrasonic Bath

[PDW]

Sorry for what is probably a naive question, but having read on yet another thread of the use of an ultrasonic bath to degunk and loosen pen parts I'm slightly puzzled.

 

The actual incident which made me wonder was a Parker 17 whose hood was a bit on the tight side. In the end heat and a firm hand dislodged it, but if I had wanted to use the ultrasonic bath how much of the nib/feed/hood/foundation unit/sac/sac cover should I have had under the water? Do people just drop [read 'gently position'] the whole thing in, or prefer to prop it up to reduce the amount under the surface to the minimum necessary? If the latter, do they let the nib tip rest on the bottom of the bath or cradle the pen in some way to prevent this contact? And can the experts please generalise this query to other major assemblies that they give an ultrasonic dip to?

Edited October 24, 2011 by PDW

[Arqui]

Sorry for what is probably a naive question, but having read on yet another thread of the use of an ultrasonic bath to degunk and loosen pen parts I'm slightly puzzled.

 

The actual incident which made me wonder was a Parker 17 whose hood was a bit on the tight side. In the end heat and a firm hand dislodged it, but if I had wanted to use the ultrasonic bath how much of the nib/feed/hood/foundation unit/sac/sac cover should I have had under the water? Do people just drop [read 'gently position'] the whole thing in, or prefer to prop it up to reduce the amount under the surface to the minimum necessary? If the latter, do they let the nib tip rest on the bottom of the bath or cradle the pen in some way to prevent this contact? And can the experts please generalise this query to other major assemblies that they give an ultrasonic dip to?

 

I have the same questions as you, so I´m looking forward for the answers to your question.

[Kelly G]

I tend toward the conservative side with the UC. I never put any parts in the UC that will encourage corrosion - for instance, caps with inner caps or metal parts or barrels with filling systems with metal parts such as lever or button fill. I have never seen a reason for dunking the whole pen in the tank. I limit the UC use to sections with nibs/feeds that I don't particularly care to knock out but want a thorough cleaning.

I am also slow to put vintage hard rubber sections in the UC - water can sometimes discolor the rubber - but that is not consistent, so you take your chances.

 

I have been known to hold the jewel end of a Parker "51" or Vacumatic in the UC to help loosen the jewel but that is not my first choice and only the jewel is submerged.

[estie1948]

I go along with Kelly G. on this. I may be even a bit more conservative. I limit my use of the ultrasonic bath cleaner almost exclusively to the section (but not hard rubber sections) with the nib or just the nib and the feed. I have used it to clean the barrel of a badly scratched and abused Parker 21. That barrel had so much dried ink in it and was so scratched that I tried it. It worked out great without any further damage to the barrel. The barrel did take quite some time and paper towels to dry. I also only use it for cleaning purposes and not to loosen parts. The ultrasonic cleaner does in a few minutes what might otherwise take much longer with a bulb and running water. But then, maybe I am missing out. Hope this helps.

[OcalaFlGuy]

A couple more points.

 

Often gold plating can be very thin. I've seen the sonicator remove plating from a nib before (even with a plastic tray in it).

 

It can be very tempting to toss a cap into the sonicator as it does a great job getting all the old ink out. But it can also make other issues terminally worse. I am very careful to check how solidly clips on Esties are attached before the caps go in. A clip that isn't a spinner at the moment, but is close, may be after a few minutes in the sonicator.

 

The retainer ring for the screw in jewel in an Estie Transitional cap is only pressure fitted in. Those absolutely do not go into my sonicator. Re-firming up one of these clip/jewel retainers that comes loose from it's pressure fit is a major PIA.

 

I fully agree on no for metal fillers too. I would not be above hand holding a P-51 nib/hood/section in the sonicator for 5-6 minutes. (Solution just under the clutch ring)

 

Bruce in Ocala, FL

[AlanE]

I am wary of laquered parts. I had a UC take some laquer off the section of a Waterman Gentleman. Its the only time it happened, I had been routinely dunking everything into the UC up till then. It may have been that the laquer was loose/weak but its made me a lot more careful.

[BlotBot]

I have just ordered an ultrasonic cleaner so I have many questions.

 

1. What cleaning solution do you use? The jewelry solutions, or a dilute ammonia solution?

2. People seem to be comfortable sonicating sections with nibs. I do have a crusty nib in a celluloid section to clean. Any particular recommendations?

3. Has anyone sonicated a celluloid striated barrel to remove ink, such as with a Sheaffer vacuum-fill.

4. Is it possible to put the part in a small plastic cup with cleaning solution and set it into the water filled bath? Will that dampen the cleaning action?

5. I have a mechanical pencil that could use a through cleaning. Could the mechanism be sonicated if thoroughly dried afterward?

[tmenyc]

agreed with above -- for me it's used a lot for section/feed/nib pieces and all-celluloid bodies. It's perfect for Vacs, once you've removed the filler assembly and the section. I generally don't use the basket, but put small parts into an old top from a mondo-size bottle of laundry detergent. The top is plastic and floats, so I fill the cap around half-way, then the ultrasound around half-way, so the top floats. Works great and is much easier to keep the ultrasound water clear. I use a little bit of ammonia in the water.

 

Tim

[pajaro]

My understanding from the above is that you are using the ultrasonic cleaner to remove old ink. Is this cleaner going to drive ink off of the surface of parts, or will it drive it out of feeds where the ink is soaked into the feed?

[Ron Z]

 

1. What cleaning solution do you use? The jewelry solutions, or a dilute ammonia solution?

2. People seem to be comfortable sonicating sections with nibs. I do have a crusty nib in a celluloid section to clean. Any particular recommendations?

3. Has anyone sonicated a celluloid striated barrel to remove ink, such as with a Sheaffer vacuum-fill.

4. Is it possible to put the part in a small plastic cup with cleaning solution and set it into the water filled bath? Will that dampen the cleaning action?

5. I have a mechanical pencil that could use a through cleaning. Could the mechanism be sonicated if thoroughly dried afterward?

 

I'm a fan of ultrasonics, as are most professional pen mechanics. They're an essential tool in our line of work.

 

I use mostly ammonia diluted with water, maybe some dish detergent, just a couple of drops. I use the ultrasonic on nearly all sections, regardless the material. I do not put barrels in the ultrasonic though, preferring to clean with a test tube brush and mild surfactant or detergent. I DO use a pudding cup in the ultrasonic when I use a more concentrated cleaning solution or Koh-I-Noor pen cleaner. Placed in the water already in the ultrasonic, the waves transfer quite nicely, and it saves you from having to change the solution in the tank. I would not put a pencil in the cleaner, just because it will be difficult to remove all traces of water out of the mechanism, even if you use compressed air and/or heat.

 

Pajaro - It depends on how impacted the feed is. There are some cases where knocking out the nib and feed can not be avoided. A run through the ultrasonic first can make it easier to knock the nib and feed out, and then a second once apart can clear out the rest of the ink. There are still some cases where you end up running shim stock down the feed to get the stubborn bits off, and using a brass brush in a flex shaft tool or Dremel to clean hardened stuff off of the nib. (a brass brush is less likely scratch the gold, when a steel brush will)

[ac12]

I recall seeing a pix of a purple/blue pen. The ink was driven into the pen barrel material.

As I recall this is why you do not stick your finger into a running USC as the cleaner and grime will be driven into your skin.

[Komitadjie]

I picked one up here a while back, for use both with my pens, and with my guns (NOT the same solution, no powder fouling on my feeds, thanks!). I use 'em all the time at work to clean darn near everything, and they work superbly well. So far, the results with my own unit at home have been the same. I use mine with a 10% ammonia solution for most pen cleaning, and a couple drops of Dawn in clean water for cleaning everything else. My watchbands, knives, leatherman, glasses and darn near everything else submersible I own has taken a trip through it so far, and darn if it doesn't get 'em clean as a whistle in a hurry!

 

I actually just used it tonight, I was cleaning out a couple of Safaris for storage, and I wasn't quite satisfied that I'd gotten ALL the ink out of the collectors (one was using Salix) so I just popped 'em apart and tossed 'em in the sonicator basket. Ten minutes in there, and they were clean for SURE! I use it more for general purpose cleaning than just pens, but it is certainly capable of doing a bang-up job on the crustiest gunk you can imagine!

[OcalaFlGuy]

As I recall this is why you do not stick your finger into a running USC as the cleaner and grime will be driven into your skin.

 

Say whut?

 

It's sound waves, not a laser beam...

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

[pajaro]

That is some colorful and interesting information. When I clean out feeds and collectors I soak them in a closed jar with a solution of water and ammonia that has 10% ammonia. I close the jar to prevent ammonia escaping. Soak for an indeterminate time, then rinse and use a soft toothbrush to clean surface residues off, if there are any. This process seems to work for me. I have gotten surface ink crud off of a bunch of Sonnets, a couple of 51s that came with unsealed hoods and several Waterman Laureats, Phileases and Kulturs. The soft toothbrush works crud out of the finned area at the rear of modern feeds.

 

What more does an ultrasonic cleaner do than that? Does it get out ink that has penetrated the feed that an ammonia solution won't disolve away with patient soaking?

Edited June 27, 2014 by pajaro

[tmenyc]

Pajaro -- I've been amazed to see what comes out of a section/feed/nib in the ultrasonic AFTER it has had a good soak... to the point that I usually do the ultrasound instead of a soak. Quicker, easier, one less jar to knock over.

 

Tim

[Komitadjie]

That is some colorful and interesting information. When I clean out feeds and collectors I soak them in a closed jar with a solution of water and ammonia that has 10% ammonia. I close the jar to prevent ammonia escaping. Soak for an indeterminate time, then rinse and use a soft toothbrush to clean surface residues off, if there are any. This process seems to work for me. I have gotten surface ink crud off of a bunch of Sonnets, a couple of 51s that came with unsealed hoods and several Waterman Laureats, Phileases and Kulturs. The soft toothbrush works crud out of the finned area at the rear of modern feeds.

 

What more does an ultrasonic cleaner do than that? Does it get out ink that has penetrated the feed that an ammonia solution won't disolve away with patient soaking?

 

I can't make a perfect, direct comparison, unfortunately. However, when I first purchased my USC, it was primarily a new Parker 51 that pushed me over the edge into getting one. I had soaked it for ~48hrs or more, flushing more solution through it every time I walked past. After that, I dried it out and tested it, and found that it still had some flow issues. So I completely disassembled it, and found that a fair bit of crud was still in the collector. So I tossed the crudded-up collector directly into the ultrasonic with a 10% ammonia solution, and gave it... 15 minutes, I think. SPOTLESSLY clean at the end of it. Now, I am not entirely sure, but I suspect it would have worked nearly as well if it was still inside the hood, as long as I pulled the solution thoroughly through it first to conduct the ultrasound to the fins.

 

... Darn, now I need to buy another 51 to test that out!

[ac12]

Pajaro and Tim

I've has different experience with cleaning old pens with a USC.

I have run pens through multiple cycles of the USC till no more ink is coming out of the feed.

Then I put the section nib down in a shot glass of water overnight.

In the morning, there is a cloud of ink at the bottom of the glass.

I have repeated this multiple times on eBay pens, to the point that my SOP is to do an overnight soak after the USC cleaning.

 

What I think is happening is, the USC is great for blasting out the old dry/gooey inks, but not liquid ink. So liquid ink in the collectors and reservoir may just sit there.

 

 

Pajaro

Yes, the USC will blast out dry ink that soaking does not seem to do anything about.

- Especially useful to clean out tiny ink passages that are very difficult to get to, like on feeds with permanently attached nibs, like that of the Parker 75, Classic and 180.

- I've use the USC to clean out the ink from between the section and collar of an Esterbrook nib assembly, so that I could unscrew the nib assembly from the section. Until I used the USC, I could not get the nib to budge, even with soaking for several days.

- I also used the USC once to get out a converter that was cemented into the section by dry ink. The USC blasted out the old dry ink around the converter until the converter could be easily pulled out.

The problem with these 3 scenarios is the surface area that the cleaning solution can work on is quite small. So soaking may work, but VERY VERY slowly. And a small amount of ink at a time.

 

@Komitadjie

I have had trouble really cleaning the collector of a P51 w/o disassembly.

I did the soaking routine and after a few days it came out clean.

But then I had to remove the hood to clean some kind of hard crud off the feed.

I found the top 1/3 of the collector still caked with green ink. The bottom 2/3 was CLEAN.

So the problem as I see it is, getting the cleaning solution to cover the entire collector so ALL the ink can be removed.

After this I am now considering going back to reclean all my P51s, after I figure out how to saturate the entire collector with cleaning solution.

[OcalaFlGuy]

 

I found the top 1/3 of the collector still caked with green ink. The bottom 2/3 was CLEAN.

So the problem as I see it is, getting the cleaning solution to cover the entire collector so ALL the ink can be removed.

After this I am now considering going back to reclean all my P51s, after I figure out how to saturate the entire collector with cleaning solution.

 

Hence the reasoning behind the suggestion in the main thread to make the soak lever At the clutch ring. (In the Found in the Wild 51 SoakNFlush thread.)

 

That insures the whole collector is submerged but Doesn't submerge any Metal parts of the filler.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

Edited June 29, 2014 by OcalaFlGuy

[Komitadjie]

Pajaro and Tim

I've has different experience with cleaning old pens with a USC.

I have run pens through multiple cycles of the USC till no more ink is coming out of the feed.

Then I put the section nib down in a shot glass of water overnight.

In the morning, there is a cloud of ink at the bottom of the glass.

I have repeated this multiple times on eBay pens, to the point that my SOP is to do an overnight soak after the USC cleaning.

 

What I think is happening is, the USC is great for blasting out the old dry/gooey inks, but not liquid ink. So liquid ink in the collectors and reservoir may just sit there.

 

@Komitadjie

I have had trouble really cleaning the collector of a P51 w/o disassembly.

I did the soaking routine and after a few days it came out clean.

But then I had to remove the hood to clean some kind of hard crud off the feed.

I found the top 1/3 of the collector still caked with green ink. The bottom 2/3 was CLEAN.

So the problem as I see it is, getting the cleaning solution to cover the entire collector so ALL the ink can be removed.

After this I am now considering going back to reclean all my P51s, after I figure out how to saturate the entire collector with cleaning solution.

 

I think what you might be seeing there, with respect to the "old, dried inks" is that the ultrasonic cleaner has a very aggressive action, but it is ONLY at the water/surface interface. It really has no way to pump solution through the cleaning area, particularly if it's a closed scenario like a pen's ink system. If I had to guess, what you're seeing after the overnight soak is all the crud that the ultrasonic blasted free, but was not able to escape the feed on its own. I suspect, from what I know of ultrasonic cleaning, that the best option would probably be a few minutes in the ultrasonic, then cycle some solution through it, then more ultrasonic, repeating until the solution flushes totally clean. That would allow the USC to blast the gunk from the surfaces, then allow that crud to be cycled out of the system entirely to bring fresh, clean solution to bear on the area. Bearing in mind, of course, that my experience with ultrasonic cleaning is in the field of small commercial electrical parts, not pens!

 

That's almost exactly the same situation mine was in after soaking! The bottom section of the collector was quite clean, but up in the top part, it still had a lot of gunk. Interesting, and I'm fairly sure I did have plenty of soaking agent up there... perhaps just as you mentioned, the surface area for it to act on is small?

Edited June 29, 2014 by Komitadjie

[wykeite]

Like everything else that gets imported into a hobby here we have an ultrasonic cleaner being over analysed and misunderstood.

 

The cleaner by virtue of it's ultrasonics creates micro explosions on the surface dislodging any debris. That's all it does. The user has to flush the debris. As to lifting plating, that will only happen if the plating is already failing.