Fp Ink Consumption Compared To Ball-Points

[Olafsen]

Hello,

since Noodler's states that his inks are cheaper than ball point pens, I thought about asking you for direct experiences or tests.

I can find 50 cheap BIC black ball-point pens for 15 Euros, with a total "mileage" of 100 km (2km per pen, as stated by BIC). 130 ml Noodler's costs at least 18 dollars (Black for example) that means about 15-20 Euros (depending on the shipment and reseller). No idea about the mileage.

 

My experience with my FP: some GO! from Pelikan (broad, medium and maybe a fine nib, I'm not sure) and a Preppy (fine nib).

The broad GO uses ink (Royal Blue) incredibly quickly, with its very wet and broad line (at least 1 millimetre wide), the preppy and the medium/fine GOs lay down a thinner and drier line and they seem to last longer. I filled all of my GO many times (the Preppy is eyedropper... only once yet), but I don't remember emptying a ball-point pen! At least not after finishing my studies. And even then very rarely, since you can always get BP pens for free, you don't even need to care about finishing them.

In my office I don't write often and I find my BP disappearing faster than I could empty them, so no luck as well.

As result, I have no direct experiences.

 

Has someone here direct experiences? for example writing a journal with BP and then switching to FP.

 

Please state your sources when you express your ideas, so that we can keep the discussion more "scientific" and based on real data. Or just state the lack of accurate data, it's still fine.

If possible, state the width of the line of your pen, so that different widths can be compared (as first-approximation is ok, I know some nibs/inks are wetter than other and lay more ink per unit of surface).

Edited September 7, 2011 by Olafsen

[Olafsen]

No need to say that environmentally the comparison is meaningless, since throwing away 50 BP or a glass bottle is completely different. The eco-friendly BICs cost about 40+ Euros instead of 15!

[GeeTee]

Hard to compare. Every fountain pen is different in ink usage. A dry xxf FP wil use a lot less ink than a pen with a very wet BBB nib. My guess is a FP will use more ink than a BP. Noodles isn't the cheapest ink (especially if you are in Europe). For 23 Euro's + shipping you can buy 1000ml of Pelikan Black of Royal blue (ebay seller schreibfuchs1994). In a lets say a Pelikan with a F nib this will probably beat ballpoints.

 

But to be honest. I don't write with FP's because they are cheap (i really don't understand Nathan's rants on Youtube about prices). Some of my pens cost more than a lifetime supply of bics. Like you say, i can't really remember emptying a BP. They usually disappear or get replaced. I just like writing with a FP and change inks often. Price is not really an issue, you can make it as cheap or expensive as you like. My 2 cents.

[twdpens]

Hard to compare. Every fountain pen is different in ink usage. A dry xxf FP wil use a lot less ink than a pen with a very wet BBB nib. My guess is a FP will use more ink than a BP. Noodles isn't the cheapest ink (especially if you are in Europe). For 23 Euro's + shipping you can buy 1000ml of Pelikan Black of Royal blue (ebay seller schreibfuchs1994). In a lets say a Pelikan with a F nib this will probably beat ballpoints.

 

I agree.

 

A ballpen refill uses generic mass-produced black or blue ink and produces a fairly fine line. Therefore, any comparison must be made using generic mass-produced blue or black ink in a pen with a fine nib.

 

It's not all about cost though, is it? Food at McD's will provide sustenance, but we'd all rather dine at Le Manoir aux Quat'Saisons.

 

Martin

[gmrza]

This was discussed in a fair bit of detail in the following thread:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/199452-equivalent-number-of-ballpoint-refills

 

As other posters have mentioned, there are just too many variables to make a sweeping statement. You have to try to make a comparison using an ink which can be purchased cheaply in large volumes to compare to disposable pens.

What did also turn out to be an interesting comparison is to compare the number of name brand ballpoint refills to bottles of ink - e.g. the number of Parker ballpoint refills equivalent to a bottle of Quink.

[Nonsensical]

I haven't often finished using a ballpoint pen in the past, but I sure have lost quite a few. :embarrassed_smile:

 

As a fan of Japanese F and Western EF nibs, I can tell you that on average I will use 2-3 converters full of ink, per week, at least. That's about 1.5ml - 3ml (I also use a few piston fillers), per week. (Around 40 weeks per 90ml bottle, with a lot more choice...)

 

A ballpoint pen, with the same amount of writing, per week, lasted me around 3-4 weeks. Keep in mind that I couldn't stand writing with BIC ballpoint pens, I always used Pilot ones that cost quite a bit more, around $3.20 per pen.

 

So, for me, that averages out to $32.00 for 40 weeks of writing, for the ballpoints, and $12.50 for FPs.

 

Sure, I have to buy a fountain pen too, but then at least it retains SOME value, and makes the experience much, much more enjoyable.

[Olafsen]

Of course writing with FP is better, I was just trying to understand Nathan's statement. Well, now that I see the 1 litre Pelikan ink for 21 Euros, I would say the discussion is closed

[Olafsen]

That's exactly what I was interested in!

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/199452-equivalent-number-of-ballpoint-refills/page__view__findpost__p__2033331

[gmrza]

I haven't often finished using a ballpoint pen in the past, but I sure have lost quite a few. :embarrassed_smile:

 

As a fan of Japanese F and Western EF nibs, I can tell you that on average I will use 2-3 converters full of ink, per week, at least. That's about 1.5ml - 3ml (I also use a few piston fillers), per week. (Around 40 weeks per 90ml bottle, with a lot more choice...)

 

A ballpoint pen, with the same amount of writing, per week, lasted me around 3-4 weeks. Keep in mind that I couldn't stand writing with BIC ballpoint pens, I always used Pilot ones that cost quite a bit more, around $3.20 per pen.

 

So, for me, that averages out to $32.00 for 40 weeks of writing, for the ballpoints, and $12.50 for FPs.

 

Sure, I have to buy a fountain pen too, but then at least it retains SOME value, and makes the experience much, much more enjoyable.

 

 

The other big value point for me is the legibility of my handwriting. At the end of primary school, having written with a ballpoint pen all through primary school since use of fountain pens was not permitted, I could often barely read my own handwriting! In high school, determined to fix that, I started using a fountain pen. I cannot claim any great penmanship, but at least I can now read my own notes!

 

 

[penwin]

You must compare FP ink and BP ink of the same brand to be just.

[Olafsen]

Why?

[stuartk]

Hello,

since Noodler's states that his inks are cheaper than ball point pens, I thought about asking you for direct experiences or tests.

 

I've seen comments from Nathan about how his inks are a better value than disposable rollerball pens, but never about ballpoints.

 

I only know of one ballpoint refill that claims to be truly permanent on paper. All of the rest can be lifted readily with solvents. Ballpoints typically don't produce as dark a line as do rollerballs or fountain pens. Ballpoints typically require the application of more pressure by your hand or fingers and thus are more tiring when you need to write a lot.

 

So I don't see that it's useful to compare the cost of ballpoint pens vs. fountain pens.

Rollerballs and porous tipped pens are what I'd compare.

[WOBentley]

Also remember that it is almost impossible to "lay down a wet line" or italic line with a ball pen... and with respect to shading...well only in the last seconds of a Ballpoint's life (or would that be skipping).

Edited September 12, 2011 by WOBentley

[WanderingAuthor]

I don't have precise data, and the last time I used a ballpoint was literally decades ago. But I used to use those things up pretty quickly when I did use them. Sure, I lost some, but even the ones I kept never lasted more than a week or two. Of course, I was laying down a lot of line in that week or two. I burned through those little monsters - and tortured my hands in the process.

 

Fountain pens are all over the place. I have an Esterbrook with a fairly broad, wet nib that sprays ink on the page almost as fast as a hose does. I've had a TWSBI Diamond filled up with ink last me for days, perhaps up to a week. I've got a Pilot 78G with a F Japanese nib (the equivalent of a European XXF) that dispenses ink one atom at a time. (No, not literally, but that pen will write for a surprisingly long time, considering just how little ink the converter holds.) Yet I've got two Pilot 78Gs with B nibs (more like a European Italic nib) that blow through ink almost as fast as the Esterbrook I mentioned. So the pen, the nib, the adjustment, all these things will factor in.

 

Nathan says he has done tests; I have no reason not to believe him. And my experience, while admittedly not up to scientific standards, suggests he is right, if you don't put the ink into a firehose of a pen. With a fairly fine line, even a slightly wet one, I think you pay far less over time using a fountain pen than ballpoints, rollerballs, whatever, where you have to buy refills. It stands to reason; you aren't just buying the ink, you're buying the refill or the disposable pen, and paying for the manufacture of that.

 

When considering the cost of ownership, I think you've got to add in two other considerations Nathan doesn't even mention. First, the one that you mention: I seldom if ever lose a fountain pen, but those cheap, nasty little things go AWOL all the time. When you take that into account, you're probably buying 100-200 ballpoints for every good-sized bottle of fountain pen ink that you run through a normal fountain pen. They're cheap, individually, so you don't notice, but that cost adds up.

 

Then, there's the toll on your hands. I write a lot, so I notice this. Fountain pens require much less pressure, so they don't cause the cramps and the long-term damage that other writing implements do. Figure out your medical bills as you get older, from using "cheap" pens, and you'll discover you could have paid for a few high-end Omas or Montegrappa or Visconti beauties just with what you spent on those. And painkillers... And with the fountain pens, you don't have to feel that pain at all.

 

That's just my opinion, I don't have scientific evidence to back it up. But I know how much my hands hurt when I was ten (I spent hours every evening with horrible cramps in my hands), and how even now at fifty-two, they don't bother me as much - even while the rest of my body ages. And I put a lot more mileage on my hands than any other part of me. Just shedding those cramps makes fountain pens more than pay off for me.

 

Edited to add: I doubt most of you spend enough time with a pen in hand to notice the cramps I'm talking about; when I'm on a roll, I'll write for hours, nonstop, except for pauses to fill my pen. So the damage to your hands would be slower, subtler, less obvious. But I'm convinced it happens.

Edited September 12, 2011 by WanderingAuthor

[gmrza]

 

When considering the cost of ownership, I think you've got to add in two other considerations Nathan doesn't even mention. First, the one that you mention: I seldom if ever lose a fountain pen, but those cheap, nasty little things go AWOL all the time. When you take that into account, you're probably buying 100-200 ballpoints for every good-sized bottle of fountain pen ink that you run through a normal fountain pen. They're cheap, individually, so you don't notice, but that cost adds up.

 

 

If you really want to be fair, you need to compare cheap ballpoints to the cost of buying ink in 1l bottles - say Pelikan, which is still available in large bottles. If you want too compare more "up-market" ballpoint refills, then it seems more fair to compare the price/performance of a ballpoint refill with ink from the same manufacturer - e.g. a Parker Jotter refill vs a bottle of Quink.

 

Based on that assumption, and assuming you use a fairly fine nib, the fountain pen does seem to come ahead on the cost side, based on the calculations in the earlier thread I mentioned above.

 

Of course, the medical benefits for you make the cost of the ink a moot point. For me, there was also the benefit of being able to read my own handwriting.