What Ink For Organic Solvents?

[Chrontius]

I will be starting class in an organic chemistry lab, and we are required to keep a bound lab notebook (For want of Rhodia A5 pads, I picked a Black & Red A5 hardback). Paper performance is not an issue.

 

What is, is the requirement for permanent ink. We will be working around volatile organic solvents, strong acids and alkalines, halogens, et cetera. Washable inks are right out. Pencil, though generally extremely waterproof, is verboten for reasons unknown. I am doing my initial prep with Montblanc's blue-black iron gall ink, which is regarded as stupendously tamper resistant, and only slightly inferior to Noodler's Bulletproof series, for the precipitation of iron particles into the paper fibers is an irreversible reaction under (most) conditions the paper will survive. Would I be better off using iron gall, Legal Lapis, or perhaps one of those Office Depot super-indelible rollerballs? Losing well-loved pens in a fire, explosion, or caustic spill is a real risk, so I'll probably be using a Manuscript I have three spares of.

 

So, please post your best hostile-environment ink!

[corniche]

Greetings Chrontius,

 

Your best bet is a Lamy Al-Star fitted with your favorite width nib; loaded with any color of Noodler's Bulletproof ink you like.

 

I recommend the Lamy Al-Star because it is a smooth writing, reliable pen with a tough, all aluminum body/cap that can take a lot of abuse and is also affordable. The ink is self-explanatory; although, if you get acid on your notes- no ink will be secure- neither will your notes... or you! So, be careful, my friend.

 

Knock 'em dead in chem class... so to speak.

 

All the best,

 

Sean

Edited August 27, 2011 by S. P. Colfer

[atypical]

In this type of environment, I would use a pigmented ink using carbon particles such as Platinum Carbon Black and Sailor Kiwa Guro or alternatively an ink containing cellulose reactive dyes, for example one of Noodler's Bulletproof inks. Iron gall inks might be less suitable since organic acids such as oxalic acid and citric acid, both likely to be present in any organic chemistry lab, can remove them.

[JefferyS]

We had to write on labels that would then be inserted into bottles containing 70% alcohol or 10% formalin. So we had to use Rapidograph pens with India Ink. In the written journals, we used fountain pens with India ink, but one has to be careful not to let it dry. My fellow that was doing research with me used an Osmiroid with India ink. I used a Parker 51.

[dcwaites]

+1 on a Carbon or other pigmented ink.

[ssbbg]

I'm a chemist, and I've experimented with whatever solvent I'm working with and whatever ink I've got. In my lab notebook, I use Noodler's Bad Green Gator, and less often Polar blue (because I'm not so fond of the color). They both stand up well to the solvents I've thrown at them (THF, DCM, acetone, methanol, ethanol, probably others I don't recall). I have to admit, I always got a thrill when I was using a new solvent and could test a drop on a piece of writing. (Extremely bad practice and don't let your prof/TA see you do such a silly thing!) Noodler's inks are acid and base resistant. I think iron gall inks aren't, but I could be wrong. That impression is based on a very superficial read of some threads on how to make iron gall inks.

 

The one issue that I have run in to is that the labels we use on our sample vials sometimes don't work well with these inks. What I mean is that the inks are not as bulletproof as they are on paper. Since I frequently spray stuff with ethanol (to make it sterile to go in to a bio-hood) or sonicate it in a water bath (the joys of insoluble compounds!), I do end up with fading/running, though they are usually still legible.

 

That said, I've done more damage to lab notebooks by spilling coffee/water than I have with spilling solvent, so I think any waterproof ink is fine. (Coffee -When writing papers at my desk, not because I'm drinking in lab. Water- everywhere! Popped hoses from condensors, labmates who don't wipe down benches, etc)

 

The reason you cannot use pencil is so that you cannot alter your results. Pencil is forbidden in working labs for the same reason. This is also why you have to use a bound notebook (so you cannot remove pages). In some labs, you must cross out any remaining blank space on a page, then sign and date at the end of each day, and have that days work countersigned by a coworker. This is more common in industry labs, but I've seen it in classes too.

 

Louise

[JefferyS]

Yeah, we used to use hardbound ledger type books (journals) with sewn-in, numbered pages. The one person in the department who was suspected of fabricating work was found to have no journals whatsoever (not even 3-ring binder).

[Chrontius]

Yeah, we used to use hardbound ledger type books (journals) with sewn-in, numbered pages. The one person in the department who was suspected of fabricating work was found to have no journals whatsoever (not even 3-ring binder).

 

Good point, and oh dear.

 

What about those "inkless pens"? I know it's a variation on silverpoint using an iron-based alloy (they claimed a form of stainless steel in one article), but it's supposed to be pretty darn permanent.

 

I suppose I'll probably run down the Montblanc ink as the pen's on its last drops, and then clean it out for something else, and I'll start up a cheapie with Noodler's based on folks' advice. I'm still tempted to try some Pen & Ink Sketch, which seems to be a waterproof carbon-based ink, and resisted all of the casual-around-the-home solvents I threw at it including carpet cleaner and chlorine-bearing mildew remover. I stopped before subjecting it to straight-up pool chlorine and muriatic acid, but I was quite impressed with the stuff given its price and availability.

[JefferyS]

There is something called workable fixative, a spray in a can that fixes charcoal and pastel to paper. But I think pigment-based inks (maybe Platinum pigment inks) would be your best bet.

[WanderingAuthor]

This is what Noodlers bulletproof inks are designed for! If the possibility of forging results is a concern, then what better choice than the one ink most likely to resist any efforts at forgery?

[JefferyS]

I'm just more confident with India ink. Good track record. I'm a huge fan of the element carbon.

[Possum Hill]

If you aren't worried about your writing being exposed to lasers you should be pretty safe with Noodler's bulletproof ink. No one could claim the prize Nathan offered for a method to eradicate it otherwise.

 

But, if the solvents in your lab render the notebook unsafe to handle, it may not matter if you can read them.

[Chrontius]

Hm, had I another week to procure a notebook, I'd probably get one of these Leuchtturm 1917 notebooks. Pre-numbered, fountain pen friendly, comes with a table of contents already prepared.

 

Alas, Amazon's shipping-time estimator seems to be completely borked.

[Possum Hill]

Nathan Tardif offered a reward for a method to eradicate Noodler's bulletproof black, which wasn't claimed until someone used a laser. It will probably stand up against anything in your lab that doesn't destroy the paper.

[ssbbg]

Hm, had I another week to procure a notebook, I'd probably get one of these Leuchtturm 1917 notebooks. Pre-numbered, fountain pen friendly, comes with a table of contents already prepared.

 

Alas, Amazon's shipping-time estimator seems to be completely borked.

 

I mentioned the brand lab notebooks I've used in the following thread:

 

Notebooks

 

The thread also mentions the Leuchtturm 1917- which had both negative and positive comments. One person mentioned a lot of bleed/show through.

 

The notebook I mentioned are used in a lot of university labs in the states. I like them a lot since they are large enough that you can paste a whole letter sized page in them- data analysis you print out, for example. They also open pretty flat. They are soft-cover though, if that is a problem. You may be able to find them at a local office supply store, in addition to online.

 

Louise

P.S. First URL inserted, so let's see how badly I messed up the formatting!

[bekki2308]

Im a chemist. As a student lab books are not important but you should get into good habbits, a black ballpoint pen is the only pen that should be used in a lab book they offer water and solvent resistance beyond anything you are goin to get with ink, even gel and felt tip type pens are rubbish. You will end up spilling or splashing chemicals on your book, it cant be helped but honestly i think your best bet is to ditch the fountain pen for labs. Where i work my lab book is a genuine legal record of my work, my work needs to be legible and chemically resistant and above all the pen i write with must be photocopiable and black ballpoint doesthe trick perfectly. I just use a parker jotter. Also you will contaminate any pen you use in the lab and potentially damage it, metal doesnt mix well with acid :-) you should really have a pen you only handle when wearing gloves in the lab then yiu wont contaminate your hands or anything else that touches it.

[..lol..]

I'm a pharmaceutical chemist, and I use with success Noodler's #41 Brown. Great flow, suitable for very fast writing, and bulletproof. Ocne the bottle is finished, I guess I'll use polar black/blue or Bad Green Gator.. Or Lexinton Grey.. or ALL OF 'EM!

Edited August 29, 2011 by ..lol..

[mstone]

Im a chemist. As a student lab books are not important but you should get into good habbits, a black ballpoint pen is the only pen that should be used in a lab book they offer water and solvent resistance beyond anything you are goin to get with ink, even gel and felt tip type pens are rubbish.

 

ballpoints have lousy chemical resistance, e.g., to acetone; the pigment-based "fraud proof" gel pens are far better. if the bar is set at "ballpoint", any bulletproof/eternal cellulose-reactive or pigment-based ink will be fine.

[Yoda4561]

Im a chemist. As a student lab books are not important but you should get into good habbits, a black ballpoint pen is the only pen that should be used in a lab book they offer water and solvent resistance beyond anything you are goin to get with ink, even gel and felt tip type pens are rubbish.

 

ballpoints have lousy chemical resistance, e.g., to acetone; the pigment-based "fraud proof" gel pens are far better. if the bar is set at "ballpoint", any bulletproof/eternal cellulose-reactive or pigment-based ink will be fine.

 

 

This.

 

Other than water conventional ballpoint ink is really bad at resisting solvents. Terpenes, alcohols, benzene, acetone etc will all do a wonderful job of making ballpoint ink erasable. There are a few exceptions to this, the fisher space pen ink and the gel security inks/sanford uniballs tend to be quite durable.The majority of fountain pen inks are unaffected by those solvents, it's just those pesky water and caustics that give them issues. Noodler's Black is the easy answer if you want black ink and write small with a fine nib. As has been said, the paper will dissolve before the writing does.

Edited August 29, 2011 by Yoda4561

[Yoda4561]

I'm a pharmaceutical chemist, and I use with success Noodler's #41 Brown. Great flow, suitable for very fast writing, and bulletproof. Ocne the bottle is finished, I guess I'll use polar black/blue or Bad Green Gator.. Or Lexinton Grey.. or ALL OF 'EM!

 

 

Don't use bad belted kingfisher. Much as I love the color that one is only about 10% waterproof. The polar inks will work great if you ever find yourself working in a walk-in freezer