"saturation" Of Inks

[Hohn]

I've made my case, I feel no need to belabor the point.

 

We simply disagree.

[Possum Hill]

 

Again you seem to miss the point. This is not about a technical definition from some physics or engineering perspective. This is about a definition that is applied in a narrow field of its own, namely fountain pen writing. That is might be an "amalgam of several different properties" is immaterial in the execution of writing. Here it is a workable and agreed definition with a supplied opposite. It should only create a headache for the ink manufacturer who has to balance all these meanings in the creation of new ink formulae. That this definition does not match your expectation from another context does not mean that how the word saturation is used here needs to change.

 

Rick

Actually, I find Hohn's technical definitions useful and other uses here misleading. The meaning of saturation has been discussed before and I don't think there has ever been agreement. At best, it seems that more of the use of saturation as applied to ink has been derived from its definition in relation to color.

[Possum Hill]

Ok, you know a technical definition for color saturation, yet that like so many definitions works inside your field of study. The fact is that words often carry different meanings. In my field of study of mathematics you could walk into 4 different professors offices to talk about fields and have 4 different, sometimes radically different, conversations and a farmer eavesdropping on all four would think no one knew what they were talking about.

 

So learn this now, as saturation gets discussed in fountain pen inks it often refers to the level of shading. Generally, the opposite of a saturated ink is a highly shaded ink. At which point this amounts to how much dye is there and how does it spread out when writing. This actually makes the usage of saturation closer to the chemical definition, although it is not identical.

 

Figure out what the word means by the context it is used in, not by what some certain definition says it ought to mean. A definition without a common context is likely to be a bad definition.

 

Rick

There's an interesting example -- apparently when some people use the word farmer they mean "simple uneducated peasant".

 

Excellent job of missing the point. The point being that the word field used outside of a university hall can have an incredible difference. And frankly, I work with enough of them today to know what most of their responses would be, as I put it, some tongue in cheek, some serious. And nothing said uneducated that is your projection onto my writing, my point is that the semantic domain is absolutely different for for such a field. Helps to respond to what I write, not what you wanted me to write.

 

Rick

 

I didn't particularly want you to write anything, and I'll respond as I think appropriate, not how you want me to respond!

 

Don't worry, I did get the point that "field" can have many different meanings, even discounting the particularly abstruse. I merely pointed out that one's experience and preconceptions affect how one interprets words, like field and farmer.

 

The example of a farmer was a particularly telling example of a preconception as farmers are prone to make jokes about the various meanings of fields rather than to be puzzled by new ones. It gives them something to do when they're outstanding (out standing) in their fields.

[txinsk]

I've made my case, I feel no need to belabor the point.

 

We simply disagree.

 

I agree to disagree.

 

Rick

[raging.dragon]

First, saturation in the chemical sense should not be used to describe an ink because we can't know how much solvent/solute the solution contains without some titration experiments that don't add much value.

 

The term is used here in the chemical sense (i.e. a solution saturated with dye), but with guesswork substituted for careful measurement.

[Possum Hill]

First, saturation in the chemical sense should not be used to describe an ink because we can't know how much solvent/solute the solution contains without some titration experiments that don't add much value.

 

The term is used here in the chemical sense (i.e. a solution saturated with dye), but with guesswork substituted for careful measurement.

It's also used here in the color sense, also with guesswork.

[raging.dragon]

First, saturation in the chemical sense should not be used to describe an ink because we can't know how much solvent/solute the solution contains without some titration experiments that don't add much value.

 

The term is used here in the chemical sense (i.e. a solution saturated with dye), but with guesswork substituted for careful measurement.

It's also used here in the color sense, also with guesswork.

 

I think people are guessing at how close an ink is to being staturated with dye based on the colour of the ink.

[voop]

...

In my field of study of mathematics you could walk into 4 different professors offices to talk about fields and have 4 different, sometimes radically different, conversations and a farmer eavesdropping on all four would think no one knew what they were talking about.

 

...

 

Figure out what the word means by the context it is used in, not by what some certain definition says it ought to mean. A definition without a common context is likely to be a bad definition.

 

Rick

There's an interesting example -- apparently when some people use the word farmer they mean "simple uneducated peasant".

 

gotta say, plus one for that response. One of my 'farmer' friends has a PhD in agronomy. What does that make him?

 

A simple uneducated peasant with a diploma? Dunno, was there a more subtle point?

[Chris]

Good luck in trying to get us to understand saturation; I fear you are on a losing wicket

I have had similar discussions on angling sites about the design of rod blanks and engineering terms, an dI'm not an engineer

 

After all, look what happened to the downgrading of a billion from 10^12 to 10^9, the loss of the useful number milliard and all the consequences when people talk in trillions etc and really have no idea how many that is

 

Colour intensity then?

 

Chris

[raging.dragon]

Good luck in trying to get us to understand saturation; I fear you are on a losing wicket

I have had similar discussions on angling sites about the design of rod blanks and engineering terms, an dI'm not an engineer

 

After all, look what happened to the downgrading of a billion from 10^12 to 10^9, the loss of the useful number milliard and all the consequences when people talk in trillions etc and really have no idea how many that is

 

Colour intensity then?

 

Chris

 

I bet a graphic designer would be just as miffed as Hohn at FPN'ers using technical terms incorrectly! I can sympathize with Hohn's frustration with slang usages of words (note: decimate is NOT a synonym of devestate :bonk: ); however, I see no point in fighting it.

[lapis]

Saturation? Guinness is good for you!

 

Arthur http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu264/peli46/Guinness.gif

[stuartk]

First, saturation in the chemical sense should not be used to describe an ink because we can't know how much solvent/solute the solution contains without some titration experiments that don't add much value.

 

The term is used here in the chemical sense (i.e. a solution saturated with dye), but with guesswork substituted for careful measurement.

 

Well said.

[Chris]

Saturation? Guinness is good for you!

 

Arthur http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu264/peli46/Guinness.gif

 

You're right!

 

One can only summon up so much resistance and then it is time for a beer!

Chris

[Possum Hill]

Saturation? Guinness is good for you!

 

Arthur http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu264/peli46/Guinness.gif

[raging.dragon]

Saturation? Guinness is good for you!

 

Arthur http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu264/peli46/Guinness.gif

 

Mmmm.... Guiness.