Parker Brand Prestige?

[Pingu]

I've always been a bit of a Parker fan since I was a kid in the 80s/90s. I always thought of them in the top tier of fine pen brands.

 

But I hear apparently the brand has suffered in recent years and no longer as highly perceived?

 

Where does Parker stand in terms of brand prestige relative to its competitors? (MB, Pelikan, Waterman, Sheaffer, Cross etc).

 

Thanks

Edited July 31, 2011 by Pingu

[dds51968]

Regrettably the modern Parker has lost it's cache among discriminating FP owners, simply because they do not make a product that performs the way you'd expect a higher end pen to. The greatness of the Parker brand was left behind many decades ago, if you want an awesome Parker go for a used one from the 30's, 40's or 50's, and better yet it shouldn't cost you an arm and a leg.

 

David

Edited July 31, 2011 by dds51968

[randyholhut]

I would agree too.

 

For the first six decades of the 20th century, Parker and Sheaffer were the style and technology leaders in the U.S. pen industry. It was that leadership that allowed them to survive the Great Depression, World War II and the rise of the ballpoint, which killed off so many other pen companies.

 

If you had a Duofold, a Vac, or a "51" in your pocket (or a Balance, Triumph or Snorkel, if you're a Sheaffer fan), you had a pen that was innovative, well-designed and built to last. That we are still using these pens 60, 70 and even 80 years after they were first built is a testimony to the quality. Will a Sonnet or a Valor be still writing 80 years from now?

 

It's been a long time since either Parker or Sheaffer has put out an innovative pen. Cross would fall into that category too, while Pelikan and Mount Blanc still occupy their respective market niches.

 

If you want to experience the glory that was once Parker or Sheaffer, get one of their pre-1965 pens and be secure in the knowledge you will have a pen that is superior to any of their modern offerings, for a reasonable price.

[Kaych]

I think though that in the eyes of the general public, Parker still has that prestige attached. When you go to Staples or Office Depot and visit the "fine writing" section, you generally only see Parker, Cross and Sigma...

[Florida Blue]

The point about modern Parkers being overpriced that others have made I believe to be exaggerated. If you adjust the price of a Parker 51 for inflation you will see that the P51 cost much more than a modern Parker Sonnet did when it was produced. The cost of a basic P51 in the 1940s was $12.50 which would be over $150 today. Sets with 14kt gold cap sold for $80 which would be around $1200 today.

 

A modern Sonnet starts at $95 and they are available from many authorized retailers for about $75-$80.

 

The case of Parkers being better made during the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s is arguable too. I understand that many of these pens are approaching 90 years of age but they have cracked, chipped, warped, faded, ambered, discolored, brassed, tarnished, bent, scratched and dried up in the process. Granted there are many fine examples of these pens on the market today for good prices but think about the millions that did not survive. We generally only see the ones in good condition show up in the classifieds section or eBay or in pen shows.

 

I think Parker lost some of it's prestige by just being American. Americans today have a strange preoccupation with all things European being luxury and we stopped equating better American-made goods with luxury. Many stopped buying Parker, Sheaffer, Cross for the old world "craftsmanship" and mystique of Pelikan, Montblanc, S.T. Dupont, OMAS, Aurora and now more recently Japanese brands like Namiki/Pilot, Sailor and Platinum.

 

I will concede that Parker stopped innovating when they adopted just C/C filling mechanisms in their pens around the 1970s but even that is a moot point. Take a look at Pelikan or Montblanc, they have been using the same piston filing system for over 80 years! Most Japanese brands use C/C filling mechanisms in their pens. Example: Sailor 1911 and King of Pen, Pilot VP and Falcon, Platinum Presidential and 3776.

 

I still think Parker is as good as any of those companies.

[arashdeepsinghmann]

I love Parker and am loyal to this brand. I also know that Mont Blanc became a luxary brand now but I have seen their pens and they are nothing but light plastic pens ont he other hand Parker has a lot of nice pens that they have made like Parker Sonnet Fougere, Special edition silver/blue FP, Athens and Cisele GT plus Parker Duofolds. still they are damn good pens. Parker Fougeres were made in early 90s and I have couple of those and they are the best writers in my collection and you can see its been around 20 yrs since they are made. I saw the other day that they have launched a new Sonnet made up of Silver and that is also a nice pen.

In short I love Parker and recently I bought Parker Duofold DNA limited edition I loveeeeeeeee that pen it writes like charm. So for me Parker is still a luxary brand and I love their pens the only thing that hurts me the most is that Paker is not a stand alone company any more and more over they are not making any pens in USA. I wish they come back to USA and start as a stand alone company.....

[nxn96]

I think Parker is still pretty much perceived as one of the "better" brands, but no longer the top-tier brand it used to be.

 

Part of this has to do with the vast changes in the writing instrument market over the past 50 years. Fifty years ago, Parker was still riding high in the fountain pen business with the (by then) venerable "51", the then "flagship" 61 and the brand new cartridge/converter 45. At the same time, the Parker Jotter pretty much legitimized the ballpoint as a quality, reliable, simple to use writing instrument. Parker, much like their great rival Sheaffer, could pretty much "play" in both the mass market and higher end strata of the writing instrument business: you could buy a Jotter at Walgreens, but if you wanted a 61, you had to go to a pen/stationery store or a "good" department store (that would have been Marshall Field & Co. in my hometown...).

 

When the fountain pen business in the US pretty much collapsed by the early 1970's, so did a whole lot of Parker's market for the higher end stuff. Churning out the lower and middle end 45's and Jotters in high volume could keep the factories busy, but neither line provided the sort of margins or prestige that the "51" could provide back in the day. The 75 was increasingly promoted by Parker as a gift pen, and less as one someone bought as their own "daily user". At the same time, particularly in the 1980's and later, brands that were perceived as essentially "American" brands often suffered in the quality goods markets as compared to the "European" brands that began appearing in quantity in US stores at the time. Your father used a Parker; but if you wanted a "good" pen, you probably bought an MB, Pelikan or Waterman (under the assumption that it was ALWAYS a French company..). You can follow pretty much the same timeline with Sheaffer during this period. Essentially, it was a market shift from which neither company ever really recovered.

 

I question the assertion that part of the issue with Parker is that they lost their passion for innovation in more recent years. There are only so many ways to fill a fountain pen, and most have been out there for a long time. Personally, I think the "51" Aerometric was the best of the lot, but there's a limited market for a bottle-only filling system these days. Say what you will about c/c systems, but you can't argue the convenience of being able to drop in a cartridge in case you forgot to refill your pen out of the bottle last night.

 

More recently, I think Parker has been trying to play a game of "catch-up" with their international rivals who have pretty much dominated the quality pen market. To that end, I give the Newell/Rubbermaid people credit for continuing to promote Parker as a quality brand with new models and designs, as opposed to simply slapping the Parker name on a bunch of cheap pens.

[penmanila]

the top-of-the-line parkers (the duofolds) can still hold their own against any other, in terms of craftsmanship, design, writing quality, and fit and finish. price-wise they're competitive at the top tier.

 

i think parker's suffered because of too many cheap (and, i hate to say, some of them butt-ugly) models down the line. of course that's probably because they're playing catch-up in the segment where it probably matters more, but something has to give in this exchange, and to me it's a bit of parker's reputation.... and i'm saying this as a long-time parker fan and collector.

[kaissa]

I think Parker is still pretty much perceived as one of the "better" brands, but no longer the top-tier brand it used to be.

 

+1.

 

I had some horrible customer service experience with them and decided not to bother. I hope to buy a Duofold and Sonnet Cisele FP in distant future but do not know what to do if something happens with the nibs regarding their after-sales service.

 

I therefore use Parker as a rollerball or ballpoint pen only. I especially like their gel refills.

 

Regards,

[georges zaslavsky]

Regrettably the modern Parker has lost it's cache among discriminating FP owners, simply because they do not make a product that performs the way you'd expect a higher end pen to. The greatness of the Parker brand was left behind many decades ago, if you want an awesome Parker go for a used one from the 30's, 40's or 50's, and better yet it shouldn't cost you an arm and a leg.

 

David

Absolutely true, now Parker is indeed a marketing hypebrand with a poor customer service which has completely lost roots to its countries of origin.Parker are all made in France not in the US, Canada and UK anymore.

I mainly collect vintage parker from the mid 20's to the early 50's.

[georges zaslavsky]

the top-of-the-line parkers (the duofolds) can still hold their own against any other, in terms of craftsmanship, design, writing quality, and fit and finish. price-wise they're competitive at the top tier.

 

i think parker's suffered because of too many cheap (and, i hate to say, some of them butt-ugly) models down the line. of course that's probably because they're playing catch-up in the segment where it probably matters more, but something has to give in this exchange, and to me it's a bit of parker's reputation.... and i'm saying this as a long-time parker fan and collector.

True true, I however had one Duofold which was badly serviced by Sanford originally I asked a cap change and these bastards screw up my nice original m nib, so I had to pay 60€ for getting a new one because of Sanford's moronic customer service and this was in 2002. The nibs on modern parker are stiff and the convertor is not really a mechanism I am a fan of. I value more my vintage duofolds senior single bands than the new ones. My vintage duofold senior flat top single band nibs have flex to semiflex nibs, not the case on my modern duofold.

Edited August 13, 2011 by georges zaslavsky

[Florida Blue]

Absolutely true, now Parker is indeed a marketing hypebrand with a poor customer service which has completely lost roots to its countries of origin.Parker are all made in France not in the US, Canada and UK anymore.

I mainly collect vintage parker from the mid 20's to the early 50's.

 

I've read similar posts about Parker leaving the US and UK but never Waterman leaving the US for France or even Mabie Todd leaving the US for the UK and I don't think anyone would question that Watermans and vintage Swan pens are high quality writing instruments. I suppose because Waterman has been exclusively French since 1954 and added "Paris" to their name that Waterman being French is intrenched in their identity even though they made pens in the US from 1884 and even in Italy before WWII. Parker did this when production was exclusively moved to the UK in 1999 (except for the Sonnet) when they adopted their new swoop P logo instead of the Arrow. Parker even has a Royal Warrant to Queen Elizabeth II and the Prince of Wales which is unusual for a company founded outside the UK. However, I feel that France is part of the Parker identity. Parker began manufacturing in France when they purchased a factory in Meru in 1979. The Parker 75, 35, 95, 65, Premier, the original Sonnet and some 45s were all made there. The Sonnet has been made exclusively in France since it's debut. Some UK Duofolds were assembled in France and given 18kt gold nibs during the 1940s and 1950s. A model exclusively made in France for the French market called the Parker "La Plume" was made from 1947-1948 and is quite rare. My first French made Parker pen was the not-so-popular Latitude made in 2007 at the Waterman factory. I think Parker and Waterman are almost kindred spirits.

Edited August 13, 2011 by Florida Blue

[Parker Quink Turquoise]

My Sonnets work well.I really like the way they feel when I write with them.As long as the seal in the converter lasts I see no reason why they will not be working long after I am gone.The seal lasting is true for any pen with a converter.Most likely if it ever went replacement converters would not be hard to find with so many of todays pens using them.

[RLTodd]

The current owners, Newell Rubbermaid, decided to position their Parker brand below their Waterman brand.

[welch]

The current owners, Newell Rubbermaid, decided to position their Parker brand below their Waterman brand.

 

I thought that until I read the current Newell annual report. It's on-line. There is hardly a mention of Waterman, but a full section on Parker, including a special "Parker counter" designed as a sales kiosk inside stores. Some boasting about how Parker's sales had grown...not a word about Waterman sales.

 

Maybe Newell will invest in Parker, while letting Waterman drift? Parker certainly is recognized world-wide. I had never heard of Waterman until there were TV advertisements about 20 years ago that made Waterman sound like a UK pen.

[kaissa]

The current owners, Newell Rubbermaid, decided to position their Parker brand below their Waterman brand.

 

I thought that until I read the current Newell annual report. It's on-line. There is hardly a mention of Waterman, but a full section on Parker, including a special "Parker counter" designed as a sales kiosk inside stores. Some boasting about how Parker's sales had grown...not a word about Waterman sales.

 

Maybe Newell will invest in Parker, while letting Waterman drift? Parker certainly is recognized world-wide. ...

 

If you read previous annual reports, you will see that they had placed Waterman above Parker. I was suprised to read the latest annual report where as you mention Parker is written everywhere and Waterman is rarely mentioned.

 

These people do not know what they are doing. It is obvious that they have changed their strategy regarding these brands but they should have been explicit about it. Another reason for me to steer away from them.

 

Regards,

Edited August 14, 2011 by kaissa

[georges zaslavsky]

The current owners, Newell Rubbermaid, decided to position their Parker brand below their Waterman brand.

Newell Rubbermaid's management is composed of stupid people.

[nxn96]

I think Rubbermaid/Newell is in the midst of a campaign to re-introduce Parker as an upscale brand to an audience that hasn't thought of it that way for quite some time. While I've said in the past that I think R/N would rather sell blisterpaks of Sharpies than single Jotters, I do feel that they have given much more support to both Parker and Waterman than BIC appears to give Sheaffer. While I agree with the earlier comment that a lot of the recent stuff that Parker has put out there is overly heavy and somewhat ugly, that's a matter of personal taste. On the other hand, at least N/R is still developing new models for the Parker line.

 

I also think there has to be some internal tension within R/N as to which brand- Parker or Waterman- is the "flagship" brand. In recent years, Waterman seems to have been better positioned to hold that top position, but I think R/N is also cognizant of the fact that Parker has a huge sold-in base of writing instruments that, particularly in North America and the UK, offer a good sales potential plus the ongoing refill business.

[GhostShip Blue]

What I see (and this is largely from the point of view of someone who sold high end cigars to the shops around town that sold both cigars and writing instruments) is that Parker (which isn't available in most of those shops) is the "Office" brand while Waterman is the "Collector" brand. Pricing and sales outlets seem to reflect that distinction for the moment, and, I think if one looks back at the styling of the two brands when the were independent companies, there's good reason for it to be that way.

 

Now, if someone could get my modern Sonnet to be the top quality pen the old Duofolds were...

[PeterPenPencil]

My parents (RIP) had a drugstore in San Juan Puerto Rico for 50 years. When I was a small kid the only pens that we sold were fountain pens.

Then was the transition period in which the ballpoint came. For the fountain pens I remember that the brand most sought for was Parker,

and everybody here in PR used Parker pens.

Parker also conquered the market with the ballpoints, then came the BIC and fountain pens went to be a regular item for some people like

doctors and lawyers. I accepted the change myself and used the BIC and some ballpoints.

It was about three years ago that I decided to use fountain pens. I was drawing in ink and it occurred to me that a FP

would be the ideal tool for drawing. At first I was purchasing mechanical pens, but then I

decided to give the chance for fountain pens. My first thoughts about a FP were for Parker. I bought many Parker pens, and I am enjoying

the pleasure of a great quality. I have a Parker Premier Black, one golden, about 5 Sonnets, some Vectors and including my set of Franklin Christoph

pens. Parker yes indeed is a very quality brand, but if you purchase the cheap ones you can be disappointed, although the Frontier has a nib that

many other brands would envy. Even the Vector, in some models, if you are lucky, has a very stable and non failing nib.

The problem with Parker?

Parker is a brand that has many models and a great, huge quantity of different color and nibs. This turns the Parker family of pens into a quality

control problem. However, the vast majority of the Duofolds, Premiers, Sonnets and many other models are quality. You see the pens have straight rings.

They have also a very reliable cartridge and converters that provide ink in a very regular manner. The metal work is very neat polished, as also the plastic ones.

I think that mass production makes some pens cheaper than those made at hand. When the quality is outstanding, then all pens of the same model have a

continuous quality. I hated my Duofold when I purchased it, but now it is one of my favorites. Time and use have made me understand that the Duofold, modern made,

is a superb quality pen. Well, that is all for now... think about it...