Stuck Retractable Nib

[TexiKan]

I have a Waterman's hard rubber "Safety Pen" with a short cap. The barrel is completly smooth with no evidence of a filling mechanism. The open end has a screw section and one can see the nib and feed inside the pen. The back portion of the barrel appears to be a twist style unit to retract the nib and feed into the writing position. I have had only one other pen like this and I no longer have it. If memory serves me correctly, one twists the back of the barrel to retract the nib and filling mechanism. Right now, I cannot budge the back portion. It simply will not turn or twist. It is frozen and some of that may be due to a dried ink sac or some dried ink. I added a little water to the open end but all it did was rinse out some ink. I am trying to figure out the best and safest method to break the nib section free. I am considering some heat, first. Seems odd that the back of the barrel screw section would need heat, but that seems to be the most logical. But what if the internal parts are indeed dried and causing the entire internal mechanism to be frozen. Now what do I do?

 

I simply do not have enough experience with this style of pen. It appears to be of 1920's vintage. Suggestions and recommendation will be greatly appreciated!

[eckiethump]

These pens are very fragile, the whole of the mechanism screws out from the rear, anti-clockwise, but to do so you need to extend the nib out first, clockwise, little by little. Soaking the internal, then a bit of heat should help. It IS very easy to force it and break the helical BHR coil inside the pen though.

et

[OldGriz]

I have a Waterman's hard rubber "Safety Pen" with a short cap. The barrel is completly smooth with no evidence of a filling mechanism. The open end has a screw section and one can see the nib and feed inside the pen. The back portion of the barrel appears to be a twist style unit to retract the nib and feed into the writing position. I have had only one other pen like this and I no longer have it. If memory serves me correctly, one twists the back of the barrel to retract the nib and filling mechanism. Right now, I cannot budge the back portion. It simply will not turn or twist. It is frozen and some of that may be due to a dried ink sac or some dried ink. I added a little water to the open end but all it did was rinse out some ink. I am trying to figure out the best and safest method to break the nib section free. I am considering some heat, first. Seems odd that the back of the barrel screw section would need heat, but that seems to be the most logical. But what if the internal parts are indeed dried and causing the entire internal mechanism to be frozen. Now what do I do?

 

I simply do not have enough experience with this style of pen. It appears to be of 1920's vintage. Suggestions and recommendation will be greatly appreciated!

 

If you do not have experience with safety pens DO NOT fool around trying to get it to work...

As mentioned they are rather fragile inside and your can cause more problems than you are trying to fix

Richard Binder is a master at repairing this type of pen and has done several for me and now they are some of the stars of my somewhat limited collection

[TexiKan]

Thanks for the info and advise. I suspected, as you said, that forcing it will break something inside. Will try and let you know if this works!

[DanDeM]

Just a few days ago I got a BCHR Moore Safety back after Ron Zorn replaced the seals. He seems to treat these thing as routinely as changing a nib in an Esterbrook. Highly recommended.

[eckiethump]

Just a few days ago I got a BCHR Moore Safety back after Ron Zorn replaced the seals. He seems to treat these thing as routinely as changing a nib in an Esterbrook. Highly recommended.

 

Is it the type of Moore Safety pen that the barrel slides to expose the nib ? If so, a different kettle of fish from that being discussed.

et

[TexiKan]

I have worked on other pens but not this particular situation. I tried to budge it with a little muscle and then realized I might break something. Call the Fountain Pen Network! Will work on it a bit but now I will do so with more caution.

 

One does not see too many of this style of pen. Cost more? Mechanism more problematic? Definitely different.

[eckiethump]

I think the beauty of them is, that because the nib is immersed in the ink when stored, for an old pen, they always write first time.

There are many variations to the mechanism and ways of dismantling them. I came across 20 NOS Waterman ones 2 years ago, not imprinted Waterman, but their mechanism and style is particularly recognisable in detail, the source was French and I believe they were made to supply the French civil service in possibly the1920's.

 

With the lack of a sac or cork there are no perishables to consider, albeit you require an eyedropper to fill them, but don't have the inconvenience of having to take the section off as with an eyedropper pen. Their biggest drawback is the pen being held in the down position when the nib is retracted with the cap off, or people trying to re-cap them, but forgetting to re-tract the nib.

 

et

[Richard]

Is it the type of Moore Safety pen that the barrel slides to expose the nib ? If so, a different kettle of fish from that being discussed.

There's only one type of Moore safety. There are variations in the externals, but inside they're all the same.

 

http://www.richardspens.com/images/ref/anatomy/safeties/nonleak.jpg

http://www.richardspens.com/images/ref/anatomy/safeties/nonleak_capped.jpg

 

And repair of the packing is quite straightforward once the knob is removed from the shaft. This latter is not always an easy task.

[Richard]

Thanks for the info and advise. I suspected, as you said, that forcing it will break something inside. Will try and let you know if this works!

Force is absolutely your worst enemy. The point at which a Waterman safety is most likely to break is along the length of the helical cam (blue in the images below), and it is for all practical purposes impossible to repair a cam that has broken.

 

http://www.richardspens.com/images/ref/anatomy/safeties/safety.jpg

http://www.richardspens.com/images/ref/anatomy/safeties/safety_capped.jpg

 

I've restored dozens of helical-cam safeties from various manufacturers. THe most exciting (translation: "complicated") one was my Caw's 327 (made by Francis C. Brown, who invented the design).

 

http://www.richardspens.com/images/coll/zoomed/caws_safety.jpg

http://www.richardspens.com/images/coll/zoomed/caws_safety_capped.jpg

[eckiethump]

Force is absolutely your worst enemy. The point at which a Waterman safety is most likely to break is along the length of the helical cam (blue in the images below), and it is for all practical purposes impossible to repair a cam that has broken.

 

 

Fortunately the cams are not too difficult to make with use of a lathe, bhr rod and a dremel, I use the pattern of the existing broken helical shaft for this.

et

[TexiKan]

Thanks, Richard, for the images. I certainly hope I did not do any damage in my initial efforts. As I said, I put a little water in it and tried to work the back of the barrel back and forth. For all practical purposes, it is still stuck. Knowing that I might do something I might regret, I decided to cease any further foolish attempts and enter a post, here, before I tried anything else. Currently, it does not move at all, almost as though it is fused tight. So, hopefully, there is no damage. Yes, this may be in need of professional help!

[Ray-Vigo]

These are nice pens, but can often be found in a stubborn state if unrestored. The cam is where they tend to break the most. That's actually one I'd send off it was being stubborn. I have gotten to the point where I do most (not all, but most) of my own repair work on my collection. I'll admit that I'd send this sort of job off though because of the cam tends to be a problem spot. If it's stubborn even with gentle and persistent heat, I'd send it off.

[TexiKan]

Considering our outside temperature has reached 110 degrees today, I decided to try something. I placed my pen in my car to see if the interior heat would work to loosen it. After leaving the office, I returned to my car and tried the end of the pen. It actually worked loose! I was able to remove the entire internal assembly and compared it to the diagram. Richard, you mentioned the cam and what I see are the spiral grooves on the inner wall of the pen. The screw portion that holds the nib, etc, does not show evidence of something going from the back of the screw portion, through it and down the side. (the blue line) The nib is attached to a long shaft with two horizontal protrusions that I assume go into the barrel grooves. Is that the cam or is something missing? Upon reassembling, it no longer tightens all the way down and now a portion of the screw threads are exposed. The nib retracts OK, now, but I am unable to get the back to screw down all the way.

 

One problem tackled--now the next!

[eckiethump]

I'd Advise that you get a hold of Frank Dubiels "DA Book" for full information on repairing the Waterman Safety pen, also buy the "O" rings from here http://www.vintagepens.com/catill_nibs_parts.shtml for these pens. They aren't too demanding, mechanically to repair,(other than the fragility of the parts) but when screwing the spiral unit back in, you need to be aware that you need to screw the nib back into the body as you screw the unit down, little by little.

Eric

[TexiKan]

I'd Advise that you get a hold of Frank Dubiels "DA Book" for full information on repairing the Waterman Safety pen, also buy the "O" rings from here http://www.vintagepens.com/catill_nibs_parts.shtml for these pens. They aren't too demanding, mechanically to repair,(other than the fragility of the parts) but when screwing the spiral unit back in, you need to be aware that you need to screw the nib back into the body as you screw the unit down, little by little.

Eric

 

Thanks, Eric. It looks like I will need to update my repair reference books! And I appreciate the link to the parts. I was wondering how the unit would hold ink. Best do more research before moving forward.

[Splat]

On 7/26/2011 at 9:24 AM, eckiethump said:

These pens are very fragile, the whole of the mechanism screws out from the rear, anti-clockwise, but to do so you need to extend the nib out first, clockwise, little by little. Soaking the internal, then a bit of heat should help. It IS very easy to force it and break the helical BHR coil inside the pen though.

et

A very late post, but I hope a useful warning.

 

This is exactly correct. Once you have the nib fully extended you can add some hot water and or run hot water over the end joint - just after the pen etching and before the end screw cap.   Eckiethump is also correct about the hélice internal system, they are mighty fragile and often cracked - which is why safety/ retractable fountain pens do not usually sell for much.  That said I have several really nice ones, my favorite pen of all time is a simple but fabulous May’s French retractable pen. It has a terrific flexible nib but a cracked hélice.  I should have kept and used it very carefully as a dip pen - as a dip pen it holds a remarkable amount of ink and releases it evenly and smoothly.  But no… I decided to have its hélice copied and 3D printed. I took it to my favorite workshop where I managed to jam the mechanism solid. Now I’ll have to attempt to unjam it - maybe by adding oil instead of ink… I don’t know.  I console myself with the thought that the nib and feed are OK and if the internal mechanism is indeed ruined, at least I can cut the nib and feed out of the wreckage.

[Splat]

For me at least all this is satisfactorily resolved. I’ve left a detailed account of how to achieve this, and more on a new thread : 

 

“A new update from the old safety (retractable) fountain pen repair thread.”