Heavy Modern Pens - Why?

[Ernst Bitterman]

I am in general agreement with our Welsh OP-- heavy for the sake of heavy is silly. I won't absolutely turn away from a heavy(ish) pen, but I do frequently wonder at how often something like "I wish the 530 were a lot heavier" gets said. For me, if the weight is somewhat proportional with the girth, the objections become muted. A Sheaffer Legacy is a jolly heavy pen, but it's big around and I don't mind it. The same proportionality leaves me content with the Waterman Carene. The Pelikan New Classic (P381), on the other hand, is rail thin and heavy, and I can hardly bring myself to use it despite the extremely sweet-natured point it bears. To each their own taste, of course, but I'll retain my freedom to covertly boggle at the occasional oddities other folks find comfortable.

Edited June 14, 2011 by Ernst Bitterman

[nxn96]

The first time I held a Parker "51" Flighter, I was struck by how light the pen was; particularly given it was a metal barrel/capped pen with a metal-encased filler system. Back then, I think there might have been more of an emphasis in trying to figure out how to "pull" weight out of the pen, whereas now there seems more of an emphasis on making a somewhat heavier pen. Part of it is- I think- marketing, in that additional weight can lend the impression of a more substantial pen; whereas a lighter weight pen might be perceived as being "cheap". Also, it probably reflects the fact that in general, many people are less reliant on writing instruments for their daily activities and therefore pen weight is less a factor in pen design. Depending on the materials, it can be more costly to "engineer out" weight than to simply produce a heavier pen. If there is less perceived value in a lighter-weight pen, manufacturers are less likely to bear that cost.

[Koyote]

Well, I once had a Pelikan M600 that just never felt comfortable, and I think it was partly the light weight (and partly the shape of the section). But I know that I prefer pens around 35 grams or so.

 

Another factor for me: I am quite hard on my possessions. While I know that there are some sturdy lightweight pens (e.g., Lamy 2000), I just feel better using a metal-bodied pen - it can be dented but is hard to break.

[torstar]

The MB Verne is unbalanced when posted and seems super heavy when I pick it up after awhile.

[rwilsonedn]

I think there are two things going on here, but basically I believe the OP is on target. As fountain pens have become personal statements instead of writing instruments, weight has become part of the statement. Nobody wants to whip out a wimpy pen in the middle of a tense meeting.

The other factor is more historical. Early fountain pen users mostly learned to write with dip pens, which were even smaller and lighter. They learned to control the motion of the pen with their hand and arm, not through inertia. You applied pressure to change the line width, not to hold the pen on the paper. Today most fountain pen users learned on a ballpoint, or if they were lucky and/or European, an inexpensive fountain pen. A really light writing instrument is unfamiliar and difficult.

ron

[Florida Blue]

That's one of the psuedo-arguments that many Montblanc detractors use to explain why they are not worth the money because they are made from lightweight plastic. They equate the fact that such a large pen as the 149 must not be as high-quality as Montblanc lets on because it is so lightweight compared to it's size due to the resin. Many pens of similar size and quality are made from solid brass which is much, much heavier and those who are not as educated perceive this as a sign of quality.

[Garageboy]

I like them light- still allows the pen to do the writing, but lighter pens are more responsive (less inertia?)

[RMN]

If you write with your fingers, a light pen is more comfortable. That is the way ballpoint pens are used.

 

But if you write with your arm, the fingers just figure as a receptable for the pen. A larger weight then helps the pen to stay down and not jump about (which would necessitate a firmer -tiring- grip)

 

When writing with real flex you will have to constantly vary the pressure on the nib. That is easier with a light pen. But with a rigid nib a good weight helps the pen to push itself on the paper without tiring assisce by the writer.

 

 

And if you like posting, a light cap will be helpfull not levering your nib off the paper.

But if you do not post, weight will be no problem.

My MB Cervantes is a nightmare to use posted, but a sweet dream unposted.

As stated, the, at first strange, weight division on the Lamy Dialog3 (and other VPs) helps to stabilise the pen.

 

Most of my pens are large and hefty, several weighing more than 50 grams. I love them.

 

 

D.ick

[bluemagister]

I'm in the balance camp. I don't care if the pen is light or heavy, but it has to be properly balanced. Sometimes, it seems like the pen maker didn't post the pen before it was approved for production.

[Surf Monkey]

I'm in the balance camp. I don't care if the pen is light or heavy, but it has to be properly balanced. Sometimes, it seems like the pen maker didn't post the pen before it was approved for production.

 

Completely agree. There's nothing worse than a pen that's weighted too far to the back. Makes it feel like it doesn't want to stay on the paper.

[orfew]

If you write with your fingers, a light pen is more comfortable. That is the way ballpoint pens are used.

 

But if you write with your arm, the fingers just figure as a receptable for the pen. A larger weight then helps the pen to stay down and not jump about (which would necessitate a firmer -tiring- grip)

 

When writing with real flex you will have to constantly vary the pressure on the nib. That is easier with a light pen. But with a rigid nib a good weight helps the pen to push itself on the paper without tiring assisce by the writer.

 

 

And if you like posting, a light cap will be helpfull not levering your nib off the paper.

But if you do not post, weight will be no problem.

My MB Cervantes is a nightmare to use posted, but a sweet dream unposted.

As stated, the, at first strange, weight division on the Lamy Dialog3 (and other VPs) helps to stabilise the pen.

 

Most of my pens are large and hefty, several weighing more than 50 grams. I love them.

 

 

D.ick

 

I agree with making the distinction between writing with your arm and writing with your fingers. My fingers do not move when writing.I use my wrist and arm instead. I find this leads to a very smooth writing action where the nib glides across the paper with almost no effort at all. In fact, I let the pen do the work. I use a MB 147 posted and the top of the pen rests in the webbing between my thumb and index finger. This way I can write for hours and not become tired or sore from the effort. My thumb does not grip or put pressure on the pen, it merely keeps it from slipping. Regarding weight, I find the 147 perfectly suited to the way I write.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Let the 800 sit more in the web of your thumb ...move your thumb up the barrel a bit. ....even perhaps try it posted so it rests deep in the pocket. With the pocket supporting it, it has less weight.

 

Even plastic piston pens are said to be back weight 'heavy' to pure lever users. The balance point is higher up the barrel.

 

I have mostly Esterbrook and Wearever as lever pens. The Esterbrook I have posts lots longer than my Pelikan 400.

I do notice the Esterbook is 'lighter' but I also notice it is longer posted. So by me it balance's out being = to the posted 400.

By others perhaps not.

 

Final check before I leave grip alone, the pad of your thumb is flat on the pen?

Not the tip of the thumb?

 

Yes. I never post pens. Absolutely hate it - even makes lever fillers top heavy.

 

I was there....lived through it all back is Silver Dime Days, back when Miami had two black and white TV stations, one fuzzy. When you still had good programs like the Shadow on Radio, and Gunsmoke. The TV station in Texas was so far away you needed a 20 foot antenna.

And every one posted Standard sized pens....

 

Standard sized pens are designed to be posted. The balance point is with posting. Suggest learning how to grasp a fountain pen, then they are not 'too' heavy or top heavy.

Sorry you was not there to get hands on instruction.......don't pound the cap on boy or you will split it.

That's an elegant posted pen....the elegance of the posted pen was part of the sales pitch of standard sized pens...way back in the when.

 

Back when the now itti bitty P-51 was considered a large pen...in it was medium-large. IMO un-posted the P-51 is just large enough to use un-posted the standard Esterbrook DJ too small. I mostly post my P-51 too.

 

posting a pen is even older than adjusting TV rabbit ears. Every body did it, even little 4th/5th graders.

 

That was back before folks rented tables to sell printed I was there T-shirts. That was before Boss printed it's name real big and sold a shirt that was not Fruit of the Loom quality for more money, because it cost more.

Back when T-shirts were white and nearly everyone posted a standard sized fountain pen.

 

When you are young, you learn quickly and easily; how to fall off a bicycle, throw a rope, and post a fountain pen.

I guess the older one is the harder it is to learn things, that require coordination, like that.

But let me tell you you don't forget.

 

Some 30 years after I'd last had a rope in my hands, I was somewhere where some idiot in a cowboy hat was trying to rope a post and missing. I took the rope dropped an 8 inch loop over the post with out a second thought. That guy named 'Arkie' was from Pennsylvania.

 

It was a spit and a jump to a small 14,000 acre Texas ranch, so one learned to rope at least. Yep, in no time at all I had "Arkie' able to throw a loop and catch that post. Didn't take long at all...but then again he wanted to learn.

[ericthered2004]

I dislike heavy pens, and the trend towards heaviness, too. I've tried and failed to get the stupid weight out of the end of my Sheaffer Legacy Heritage, which I would otherwise find a nice pen.

 

regards

eric

[rhosygell]

Let the 800 sit more in the web of your thumb ...move your thumb up the barrel a bit. ....even perhaps try it posted so it rests deep in the pocket. With the pocket supporting it, it has less weight.

 

Even plastic piston pens are said to be back weight 'heavy' to pure lever users. The balance point is higher up the barrel.

 

I have mostly Esterbrook and Wearever as lever pens. The Esterbrook I have posts lots longer than my Pelikan 400.

I do notice the Esterbook is 'lighter' but I also notice it is longer posted. So by me it balance's out being = to the posted 400.

By others perhaps not.

 

Final check before I leave grip alone, the pad of your thumb is flat on the pen?

Not the tip of the thumb?

 

Yes. I never post pens. Absolutely hate it - even makes lever fillers top heavy.

 

I was there....lived through it all back is Silver Dime Days, back when Miami had two black and white TV stations, one fuzzy. When you still had good programs like the Shadow on Radio, and Gunsmoke. The TV station in Texas was so far away you needed a 20 foot antenna.

And every one posted Standard sized pens....

 

Standard sized pens are designed to be posted. The balance point is with posting. Suggest learning how to grasp a fountain pen, then they are not 'too' heavy or top heavy.

Sorry you was not there to get hands on instruction.......don't pound the cap on boy or you will split it.

That's an elegant posted pen....the elegance of the posted pen was part of the sales pitch of standard sized pens...way back in the when.

 

Back when the now itti bitty P-51 was considered a large pen...in it was medium-large. IMO un-posted the P-51 is just large enough to use un-posted the standard Esterbrook DJ too small. I mostly post my P-51 too.

 

posting a pen is even older than adjusting TV rabbit ears. Every body did it, even little 4th/5th graders.

 

That was back before folks rented tables to sell printed I was there T-shirts. That was before Boss printed it's name real big and sold a shirt that was not Fruit of the Loom quality for more money, because it cost more.

Back when T-shirts were white and nearly everyone posted a standard sized fountain pen.

 

When you are young, you learn quickly and easily; how to fall off a bicycle, throw a rope, and post a fountain pen.

I guess the older one is the harder it is to learn things, that require coordination, like that.

But let me tell you you don't forget.

 

Some 30 years after I'd last had a rope in my hands, I was somewhere where some idiot in a cowboy hat was trying to rope a post and missing. I took the rope dropped an 8 inch loop over the post with out a second thought. That guy named 'Arkie' was from Pennsylvania.

 

It was a spit and a jump to a small 14,000 acre Texas ranch, so one learned to rope at least. Yep, in no time at all I had "Arkie' able to throw a loop and catch that post. Didn't take long at all...but then again he wanted to learn.

 

Having used FP's for the better part of 50 years I have discovered pretty early on that posting does not suit me at all. Standard length pens are long enough and balanced enough in my hand to be perfectly satisfactory without a cap posted. I have quite small hands therefore length is not vital, however i do find girth to be beneficial. I can and do use short pens like Waterman's 52v' comfortably without posting. My personal ideal is the Waterman 15PSF / 55 series pens in that they are both fat and light, whereas the M800 is fat and unnecessarily heavy.

Edited June 15, 2011 by rhosygell

[Robert Hughes]

Do I write with pens posted or unposted? Yes...

[lsmith42]

The MB Verne is unbalanced when posted and seems super heavy when I pick it up after awhile.

Agreed... but we like each other for the very reason of the weight (that, and it's a great looker!).

 

However, I recently fell in love with a Sailor pen made entirely of carbon fiber (no, not the nib or jewelry, don't be silly). One of the lightest pens I've ever handled (even lighter than most plastic pens). Still thinking on that one... it looks very nice and weighed almost nothing. I'm imagining a full converter would change the weight/balance (slightly).

[kwpalzang]

My guess is that these days (with handwriting becoming less and less popular) many grab a pen and want to FEEL it: oh what a weight, oh what a class, oh what a nice feeling of oldfashioned solid metal craftsmanship. That's style! That's serious! I'm feeling so important / grown up / elder statesman / whatever...

 

And so these pens are made by the manufacturers.

There are many personal tastes, but fountain pens have fashions and trends, too; it's the same with girth.

 

I agree! Many non-FP people, I imagine, probably equate heft and weight with luxury, quality, etc. . . I can find myself sympathising with that mentality. I don't think I like heavy pens though. I have this (probably aluminium) metal-bodied pen and it's somewhat tiring to write with o_o

[Bo Bo Olson]

My hands are 'standard' nine inch span, with thin fingers.

 

Balance is the way and at what point different pens balance in what ever way you grasp your pen, low, medium or high and how, pinch or resting.

 

What irks me is some one saying standard sized pens are too small, and he don't post a pen so designed and states he never will, they are too small. Catch 22.

 

Like an 'M' prejudice one can pick up on this come easy...noobies can be contaminated....standard pens are too small, posting is evil and so on.

 

Actually that is better for me, in there are less in the hunt for vintage standard pens.

In the by gone days, there were few Large and Overlarge pens, now there are few modern standard pens. So it's what you grew up with.

 

It's all in the balance, nib geometry (angle of the grind) and how you grasp a fountain pen.

 

The way I grasp a pen, 'long' forefinger up because I post, puts the pen depending on weight and or back weighting due to a brass piston some where in the web of thumb; all the way down to the pocket of the web of my thumb, with certain pens.

 

If I don't post (I post all standard pens) and use 'short' forefinger up, the pen will sit behind the first knuckle, again depending on the weight of the pen from just behind the first knuckle to the start of the web of my thumb.

 

I don't have a death grip any more, nor do I have a 'crab' pinch of death grip. I think that makes a difference if one posts and to what is then 'comfortable' un-posted or posted.

 

I don't have any over sized pens, 1000 or 149 type.

 

I have three large pens, two are in rotation, mostly I post them, some times I don't depending on how I feel. I can and have when writing longer written un-posted......depending on my mood. I tend to grasp those pens a bit higher when posting, so they are 'in-balance'.

 

One has a nib geometry that is better non-posted....in my mind, that pen should be 1/2 inch or so longer....un-posted it is 'too' short. :roflmho:

 

The other is some 1/16th of an inch longer, but the barrel is shaped different, and it is a piston filler. It 'balances' in my hand better....I don't 'need' half an inch more pen. I often write un-posted with that pen.

 

I have two medium large pens, mostly I post them, one needs to be posted to have balance; it is too thin and light otherwise; posted for me it is one of my three or four perfectly balanced pens, the other a P-51 I can write un-posted but mostly only do that for quick notes. It feels better to me posted. It sits deeper in the web of my thumb.

 

All my standard pens I post, in they are too small and unbalanced un-posted.

 

Perhaps it comes down to I am comfortable with a pen in the web of my thumb, others may not be so.

 

I think many are 'locked' into one grip, instead of having three ways to grasp a pen. That would make a lot of difference when one is limited to one grip to where they 'can' balance a pen.

I can balance a pen using one of three ways.

 

It took me two full minutes to learn the 'short' forefinger up.

 

Because I post, the 'long' forefinger up came to be my posted way of grasping a pen, because I place the flat of the pad of my thumb on last, instead of using the tip of my thumb in a (bleep) pinch. That allows me to grasp a pen slightly higher with no loss of writing skill, and in better balance.

[beak]

Well, it all has to boil down to individual suitability.

 

The mass of a pen and it's centre of gravity are not linked. A heavy pen may be back-heavy or front-heavy. Posting is relevant IMO because it affects the balance and can be beneficial or not as suits the hand of a particular person.

 

Mass is the key; writing is a dynamic activity and the mass of the pen will alter the feel when writing according to a person's muscles and writing style and writing speed. There can be no universal rules. A lighter pen will move quicker for less effort for one, or will feel skittish and uncontrollable to another. A heavier pen will confer momentum and solidity, or just be too tiring to hold for another. I agree, just from personal preference, that girth is a more important factor than length, if mass is not considered.

 

My first new pen was a Pelikan M805, a heavier pen, and it felt a little too heavy at first. As I used it more, and wrote more, the weight became irrelevant - I adapted as my muscles developed, and I now find it less tiring to use than a lighter pen, for long writing session.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Well said.