Doric In Unusual Color

[speerbob]

Hi, I have a Doric in what I think is an unusual color. It's a burgundy but the marble pattern and color is not the same as the typical Moroccan red color. Much more orange in it like a burnt orange. Very pretty.Does anyone know anything about this color? Thanks, BOB

http://www.speerbob.com/ebay/xdoricred.jpg

 

http://www.speerbob.com/ebay/xdoricred2.jpg

[simp]

I remember about a brown/orange called Carnelian, it could be that, but there is also a similar color called Topaz, (brown/honey).

 

Unfortunately I don't have neither, so I cannot be sure about yours one...

 

Simone

[Wahlnut]

Definitely Carnelian. AFAIK it only came in the pen price range shown in the picture and the desk pen.

[jonveley]

Yes on the Carnelian. The Topaz was the lighter brown with the green streaks.

[Wahlnut]

Yes on the Carnelian. The Topaz was the lighter brown with the green streaks.

 

 

Green Streaks? I think that on was what some folks call camouflage today, but it has a name that escapes me right now. The Topaz I am thinking of is in the same streaked pattern as the Carnelian, just a more pastel brown and mauve color.

[jonveley]

Yes on the Carnelian. The Topaz was the lighter brown with the green streaks.

 

 

Green Streaks? I think that on was what some folks call camouflage today, but it has a name that escapes me right now. The Topaz I am thinking of is in the same streaked pattern as the Carnelian, just a more pastel brown and mauve color.

 

Yep. Green streaks. Check out Frame 15 of my Eversharp page at the museum.

[Wahlnut]

You know that I respect your scholarship on these colors, but the catalog shows this as Topaz,

 

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a75/wahlnut/-Users-petewk-Desktop-Pics-WE1932-09.jpg

 

No green streaks shown here not in the Topaz pen I have...and as soon as I can get a photo of mine, I will add it.

 

The pencils you pointed me to in your frame 15 are I believe another color.

Syd

[jde]

Yep. Green streaks. Check out Frame 15 of my Eversharp page at the museum.

 

 

Binder refers to that color as "Bronze and Green." I cannot remember the official name for it, either. Surely Syd or Ihimlen would have this info somewhere.

 

BTW: SpeerBob there was a thread on Topaz vs Carnelian with photos of the Carnelian in the Doric Jr size. Very handsome pen!

Edited June 5, 2011 by jde

[jonveley]

Well, I'm not sure. The 1932 catalog lists four colors: carnelian, kashmir (green marble), topaz and black. Of course, the catalog doesn't list Cathay (that electric lime green), and we know these come in that color (as well as that wild black with red veins on my page), so it's possible the brown and green ones were something else.

 

I'd love to hear that my brown and green ones are some rare off-catalog variant, but I've seen an awful lot of them, and I've never seen anything approximating the color shown as "topaz" in the 1932 catalog. I'm looking forward to seeing that picture of yours.

 

This may be another case of the 1932 catalog being close but not dead on with the color?

[jonveley]

Yep. Green streaks. Check out Frame 15 of my Eversharp page at the museum.

 

 

Binder refers to that color as "Bronze and Green." I cannot remember the official name for it, either. Surely Syd or Ihimlen would have this info somewhere.

 

BTW: SpeerBob there was a thread on Topaz vs Carnelian with photos of the Carnelian in the Doric Jr size. Very handsome pen!

 

Well, I started a reply, left to play minigolf with the kids, came back and hit send before I reviewed this thread. Looks like there is a Topaz without the green streaks - that's the first one like it I've seen. So now I really don't know.

[Wahlnut]

Yep. Green streaks. Check out Frame 15 of my Eversharp page at the museum.

 

 

Binder refers to that color as "Bronze and Green." I cannot remember the official name for it, either. Surely Syd or Ihimlen would have this info somewhere.

 

BTW: SpeerBob there was a thread on Topaz vs Carnelian with photos of the Carnelian in the Doric Jr size. Very handsome pen!

 

 

Well, Bronze Green or Green Bronze and sometimes referred to as Brazilian Green is the plastic shown here on the Deco Band below:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a75/wahlnut/greenbronzedecoband.jpg

[jde]

Yep. Green streaks. Check out Frame 15 of my Eversharp page at the museum.

 

 

Binder refers to that color as "Bronze and Green." I cannot remember the official name for it, either. Surely Syd or Ihimlen would have this info somewhere.

 

BTW: SpeerBob there was a thread on Topaz vs Carnelian with photos of the Carnelian in the Doric Jr size. Very handsome pen!

 

 

Well, Bronze Green or Green Bronze and sometimes referred to as Brazilian Green is the plastic shown here on the Deco Band below:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a75/wahlnut/greenbronzedecoband.jpg

 

 

 

Is this what Binder is calling "bronze and green?" I don't think so but I'm just a dweeb who doesn't know much. (See bottom of that link for the photo.)

 

Could Jon's "green stripped" brown pencil be a Doric pencil material but not FP?

 

Edited to correct the link.

Edited June 6, 2011 by jde

[ihimlen]

OK. This is a tough one. The pen in the original pic posted by Bob is Carnelian Pearl and Topaz is slightly lighter.

 

The green & gold colour in fact *is* very close to Topaz but the marbling is different (in Topaz it's the same as i Carnelian and Cathay and the Bronze & Green is more chunk & chips) so I'm not sure it was referred to as Topaz in Wahl catalogues. So far this colour is off-catalogue (until a catalogue listing it is found), even if not all that rare - at least comparing to some others.

 

I'd say the Green & Bronze (as Richard calls it) could be dated to c. 1934 - 1938. The Doric Jr line was continued until 1939 and by then it was the only pen to be called simply "Doric" (Wahl dropped the Jr bit) in Wahl catalogues. The "second generetion" Doric is called Eversharp Airliner Doric in the 1939 catalogue.

 

Doric Jr (or just Doric), since c. 1934 had the following colour options available:

 

1) Black & Green Oyster Pearl (often confused for Kashmir)

2) Black & Silver Oyster Pearl (often confused for Burma)

3) Black & Red Oyster Pearl (often confused for Morocco)

4) Jet Black

5) the Green/Gold & bronze in question (pic).

 

While in the 1939 catalogue colours 1 to 4 are listed, there's no mention of the No. 5. Which probably means it was gone by then. And since it doesn't appear in the 1932 catalogue, it (probably) wasn't yet available then.

 

I've got pens & pencils in all of these colours except Black & Red Oyster Pearl (Jon has a DRC pencil in that colour though) so I will post'em this evening. Until that, I attach a pic of the Green & Bronze pen from my collection

Edited June 6, 2011 by ihimlen

[simp]

 

1) Black & Green Oyster Pearl (often confused for Kashmir)

2) Black & Silver Oyster Pearl (often confused for Burma)

3) Black & Red Oyster Pearl (often confused for Morocco)

Why confused?

 

They are mainly black, with some tiny colored veins, so they are quite different form Kashmir, Burma and Morocco.

 

I should have some sample of the first two, I'll try to take some picture, but I'm a very bad photographer...

 

Simone

[ihimlen]

Here are some pics of the other Doric Jr. colours:

 

Jet Black

 

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk60/ihiml3n/FPN/DSC06763.jpg

 

Black & White Oyster Pearl

 

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk60/ihiml3n/FPN/DSC06723.jpg

 

Black & Green Oyster Pearl

 

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk60/ihiml3n/FPN/DSC06719.jpg

 

...and last but not least....

 

...Topaz Pearl

 

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk60/ihiml3n/FPN/DSC06775.jpg

 

Here is the 1939 Wahl-Eversharp Airliner page showing the Dorics and the colour breakdown (special thanks to jde!)

 

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk60/ihiml3n/FPN/1938AirlinerDRC.png

 

And here is the link to Jon's Pencil museum The Red Oyster Pearl on black is the 13th pencil on the Tray no. 15 Note that Jon has two pencils in yet another colour - somewhere between pink and red (pencil 4 and 8 on the same tray). I have no idea what this colour is called but I've only seen it on these two pencils.

 

Hope this helps

 

ihimlen

Edited June 7, 2011 by ihimlen

[jonveley]

The 4th and 8th pencils in my frame 15 are in fact the Carnelian. My Doric photos were the first taken when I set up the museum, and the color looks off due to the inexperience of the photographer. I'll reshoot that picture and post a copy here.

 

Good to know about the Oyster series -- thanks for that. I love learning new things, and now I'm going to end up rewriting the text for that frame!

[jonveley]

OK, I've got new pictures shot and rewritten the text. All 3 of my "topazy" examples have the green streaks; although 1 is a "chunk and chips" topaz color ihimlen notes (appears to be a later, long-tip example), the other 2 are nearly identical to the pure topaz example he's posted the picture of.

 

I went ahead and split this group into a small model and large model shot so I could get in closer. It is now frame 15a and 15b. I think I've got it all straight in the text now, but if I don't, please let me know!

 

Seems like whenever I get the light right on the carnelian and topaz, the kashmir goes a bit grey, but other than that the colors shown are pretty true to life:

 

http://www.jonathanveley.com/images/stories/pencils/e/eversharp15a.jpg

 

Anyone know in what year Wahl changed from a short tip to a long tip in the full size models?

 

http://www.jonathanveley.com/images/stories/pencils/e/eversharp15b.jpg

 

Hotlink straight to the Eversharp page for text: Eversharp page