Finishing Wood, To Gloss Or Not?

[FlatCactus]

As stated in the title and poll question.

 

What type of finish do you prefer on wooden pens?

 

I'm asking this just so I can determine what people would look for in a handmade wooden pen. The pen I'm making will be from silky oak.

 

As a side note, Has anyone used Ubeaut traditional wax on a pen? If so how does it fair against other offerings?

 

Thanks,

 

John

Edited June 1, 2011 by FlatCactus

[EricJS]

I've used different waxes. The only good results came from naturally oily woods such as cocobolo & other rosewoods. The upkeep on others will be continual, as they will become dry & need oil/wax applied quite often.

 

Satin sheens make the wood look synthetic, where high gloss looks like wood under glass. I've had both and this is the common response when I ask people their opinion. Very surprising as I thought the responses would be opposite.

 

My personal opinion for finish is this: Cabinetry, furniture, and most small wooden items look good in satin to semi-gloss. Pens, jewelry boxes, humidors, pendants, and such look better in high gloss. Again, that's just my opinion.

[patsikes]

Gloss or not, use CA! It holds up better than any of the friction / wax only finishes. If you want satin, micro mesh to 12000 like you would for gloss then start back down the heavier grits...down 3 pads or so you will have a nice satin...

[FlatCactus]

I haven't got around to actually turning the pen yet but I will probably do a gloss CA is it makes the silky oak look fantastic!

 

I did a small test piece on a turned piece I had laying around.

[OldGriz]

Gloss or not, use CA! It holds up better than any of the friction / wax only finishes. If you want satin, micro mesh to 12000 like you would for gloss then start back down the heavier grits...down 3 pads or so you will have a nice satin...

 

Sorry, I disagree... I consider CA a fast and dirty finish that gets a high gloss that does not last...

CA is hydroscopic and does break down from hand oils and acids...

If you want a truly good high gloss finish that is going to last use lacquer.... it needs multiple coats (that can be applied on lathe quickly) but is slow curing, and stands up the sands of time...

Over the beaucoup years and pens that I have produced I found CA does not stand up like lacquer...

Lacquer also has a nice hand feel and warmer glow than the very plastic feel of CA..

[richardandtracy]

Tom,

 

Do you have a brand of laquer you prefer to use?

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

[OldGriz]

Tom,

 

Do you have a brand of laquer you prefer to use?

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

 

I generally use high grade guitar nitrocellulose lacquer.... Stewart MacDonald Color Tone Clear and if I can't get that Behlen Nitrocellulose lacquer are my two favorites

On your side of the pond you might want to contact Manchester Guitar Tech

 

Just remember that the better and smoother the sanding of the wood, the better the final finish...

You can't expect to get a glass smooth high gloss beautiful finish if the wood has not been properly sanded.

Also open pored woods need to be sealed... I use Behlen Sanding sealer for this before the lacquer...

If you do not seal open pored woods you might get micro bubbles in the finish from air being released from the pores.

Lacquer needs at least 4-5 days to cure in a dry, warm environment... Lacquer cures by the evaporation of the solvents leaving just the had finish...

After the lacquer has completely cured it can be further polished to a higher gloss and then waxed if desired.... I use Renaisance wax as it does not take finger prints.

[richardandtracy]

Thanks Tom.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

 

 

 

[mirosc]

Another suggestion: Take a look at pipes. Treated with pure Carnauba you can get all variations between matte - satin - glossy. And they are made for handholding, too. It also has its downsides, but if treated properly, it will last.

[JefferyS]

Considering the minuscule area of wood to be finished, go with the best...nitrocellulose lacquer. Minwax Tung Oil may be something to consider.

[richardandtracy]

I asked a UK guitar supplies emporium ( http://www.rithkoandfrost.co.uk ) about nitrocellulose laquer, and got a very interesting reply back. I was mainly asking about dipping metal furniture, but thought the reply would be of wider use:

Hello Richard, thank you for the interesting enquiry.

 

To begin with I would wholeheartedly recommend NOT using nitrocellulose lacquer. In terms of technical specification it is a dreadful lacquer – highly corrosive against other finishes, it yellows, shrinks and cracks with age, manages to be both soft and brittle at the same time, is highly toxic.. guitars, instruments and some furniture restoration is really the only use for it, either because it is used for fixing the original nitrocellulose finish or because this yellowing and cracking is a desired effect (as with vintage-style guitars, for example).

Really there are two options, either an acrylic or polyurethane based lacquer. I would try an acrylic lacquer first.

 

Acrylic lacquer, at least the version we supply, is a water based lacquer which sets to a waterproof and highly abrasion resistant thin finish. Unlike nitro’ it does not discolour or crack with age, and is far harder without being so brittle.

Polyurethane is slightly different, it is the hardest of all the finishes but doesn’t ‘bite’ into the base surface as well, it ends up forming what can only be described as an onion ring around whatever it coats. It is much thicker and nigh on impossible to remove or repair. While great for use on kitchen worktops and flooring I believe a thinner finish, as given by the acrylic, would be more suitable for your application, although your experience may suggest otherwise.

The only complication is with regards how the finish is applied. Brush on finishes, for example varnish or tinned paint, are very slow drying. This allows them to level out prior to setting solid, therefore not showing brush marks caused by brush application. Acrylic and nitrocellulose lacquers are much quicker drying than normal finishes so aren’t really suitable for brush on application as they will set before the surface has had a chance to level out, thereby showing the brush marks. This is the main ‘advantage’ of polyurethane, that it takes a day or two to set so will not display brush marks.

However, dipping them or using a sponge-brush for application should get around this problem when using acrylic lacquer. The main risk with this is that the lacquer will set before enough of the excess has dripped off.. the more I think about this the less certain I am that there is one ‘correct’ solution!

My advice would be to try an aerosol spray of acrylic lacquer (with the piece itself suspended so that it can be sprayed all around), and also some neat acrylic lacquer for dipping & sponge-brush application. One of these methods should work for you; I definitely believe that acrylic is the most suitable finish to try.

Obviously I have no experience of using these lacquers on pens so I would strongly advise testing any of these treatments on an item before using them on everything you produce.

 

I hope this may be of some use.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

 

 

 

[Left FPN]

2 or 3 coats of Liberon Finishing Oil

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Liberon-Finishing-Oil-500ml-LIBFO500/dp/B000TAWCIE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1309176798&sr=8-1

[OldGriz]

I asked a UK guitar supplies emporium ( http://www.rithkoandfrost.co.uk ) about nitrocellulose laquer, and got a very interesting reply back. I was mainly asking about dipping metal furniture, but thought the reply would be of wider use:

Hello Richard, thank you for the interesting enquiry.

 

To begin with I would wholeheartedly recommend NOT using nitrocellulose lacquer. In terms of technical specification it is a dreadful lacquer – highly corrosive against other finishes, it yellows, shrinks and cracks with age, manages to be both soft and brittle at the same time, is highly toxic.. guitars, instruments and some furniture restoration is really the only use for it, either because it is used for fixing the original nitrocellulose finish or because this yellowing and cracking is a desired effect (as with vintage-style guitars, for example).

Really there are two options, either an acrylic or polyurethane based lacquer. I would try an acrylic lacquer first.

 

Acrylic lacquer, at least the version we supply, is a water based lacquer which sets to a waterproof and highly abrasion resistant thin finish. Unlike nitro' it does not discolour or crack with age, and is far harder without being so brittle.

Polyurethane is slightly different, it is the hardest of all the finishes but doesn't 'bite' into the base surface as well, it ends up forming what can only be described as an onion ring around whatever it coats. It is much thicker and nigh on impossible to remove or repair. While great for use on kitchen worktops and flooring I believe a thinner finish, as given by the acrylic, would be more suitable for your application, although your experience may suggest otherwise.

The only complication is with regards how the finish is applied. Brush on finishes, for example varnish or tinned paint, are very slow drying. This allows them to level out prior to setting solid, therefore not showing brush marks caused by brush application. Acrylic and nitrocellulose lacquers are much quicker drying than normal finishes so aren't really suitable for brush on application as they will set before the surface has had a chance to level out, thereby showing the brush marks. This is the main 'advantage' of polyurethane, that it takes a day or two to set so will not display brush marks.

However, dipping them or using a sponge-brush for application should get around this problem when using acrylic lacquer. The main risk with this is that the lacquer will set before enough of the excess has dripped off.. the more I think about this the less certain I am that there is one 'correct' solution!

My advice would be to try an aerosol spray of acrylic lacquer (with the piece itself suspended so that it can be sprayed all around), and also some neat acrylic lacquer for dipping & sponge-brush application. One of these methods should work for you; I definitely believe that acrylic is the most suitable finish to try.

Obviously I have no experience of using these lacquers on pens so I would strongly advise testing any of these treatments on an item before using them on everything you produce.

 

I hope this may be of some use.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

 

Richard, I don't don't know what the problem is with that outfit, but I (and a boat load of other pens makers I know) could not disagree more with their opinion of using nitrocellulose lacquer for finishing wood pens....

I don't know why you would be considering dipping the metal furniture of the pen in lacquer as it does not need any additional protection.

Nitrocellulose lacquer has been used by high grade guitar makers here in the US for decades and is still in use (and not only for restoration of old finishes)

I have three personal wood pens that are lacquer finished and still look as good as the day I made them almost 10 yrs ago.....

I have a feeling that the outfit you contacted probably sells a lot of acrylic lacquer and their answer is based on what they want to sell and not necessarily on what is the best product. I tried acrylic lacquer and was never satisfied with the gloss, clarity or feel that it had when compared to nitrocellulose lacquer.... I also found that it was more difficult to apply to a pen on the lathe as it did not dry quickly to allow additional coats like nitro lacquer does... in fact it took much much longer to dry and then required a lot more additional polishing to get a gloss that was not as good as nitro lacquer.

Yes, nitrocellulose lacquer is toxic, but if take some basic precautions there is no problem applying it in the amounts you would use on a pen....

Edited June 27, 2011 by OldGriz

[Left FPN]

....nitrocellulose lacquer is toxic, but if take some basic precautions there is no problem applying it in the amounts you would use on a pen....

 

what about chewers.....

[richardandtracy]

Tom,

 

I was principally asking about dipping home made brass furniture (clip & rings) to prevent corrosion without gold plating, however thought the answer could be applicable more widely. I have tried spraying these bits, but the finish was poor. I think I will have to gulp & get them plated as I have used clear acrylic varnish in these bits, only to have the varnish scrape off rapidly.

 

I do not know exactly where they are coming from in regard to acrylic vs cellulose, but with alloy wheel cellulose spray I have had small amounts of yellowing over a few years when it has been left outside on a motorcycle (I think it's UV damage).

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

 

 

 

[OldGriz]

....nitrocellulose lacquer is toxic, but if take some basic precautions there is no problem applying it in the amounts you would use on a pen....

 

what about chewers.....

 

Once the lacquer has cured there is no problem for "chewers", the toxicity of nitrocellulose lacquer is during the application and curing process and comes from the carrier for the lacquer that totally dissipates when the lacquer cures.