So What Exactly Is The Difference Between A $50 Pen And A $150 Pen?

[erratik]

For starters, I've been a bit of a pen and paper fanatic for years, but have just recently taken the steps over to fountain pens. Up until now, I had been using my Zebra Sharbo X with 0.4mm gel inks and a 0.3mm pencil, 2B lead (or 4B if i ever used a 0.5mm. . .anyway) but I finally decided to cave and get some fountain pens.

 

It was not the smoothest road, I must say. My first was a Lamy Safari EF with Lamy black ink and I did not enjoy ANYTHING about it. it was too bold, it was scratchy, and it wasn't comfortable to write with. Sold it after about a week. After that I got a hero liseur 925 F along with some private reserve midnight blues which was slightly better in terms of smoothness, but still far too bold and too heavy for my liking, sold in another week.

 

After that I got a TWSBI Diamond 530 EF. The thickness was right but it was terribly scratchy. About that time I stumbled on goulet pens and got some various ink samples, and eventually got some Noodlers Turquoise Eel, as well as ordering a F nib set from twsbi off ebay just as a last resort.

 

and let me say, i LOVED it. it was honestly even more fine than the EF the pen came with, and silky smooth. I liked it so much that I bought a second pen right away, this time with a F.

 

Well thats where trouble began, I got it in and it was SIGNIFICANTLY more bold than the F nib I had received. Concerned, I emailed back and forth with speedy and they sent me a replacement nib fearing that maybe there was a mix up and i had gotten an incorrectly labeled nib or something. It was still huge. I decided as a last resort to purchase 2 more nib sets from ebay, one F and one EF. They came in today. And low and behold, the F I received was, once again, MUCH more fine than the other F's I had received, and noticeably more fine than the EF I had purchased along side it, though still slightly more bold than the first one i fell in love with (maybe its the different ink im using? Noodlers Dragons Napalm in this one) . I honestly have no clue whats going on there, but I got what I wanted so I wont question the workings of the world.

 

Anyway, these pens are quite smooth in my opinion, and write quite well, though I've never written with a $XXX pen before. and I don't mind spending the money, Id just like to know what I'd be getting into ahead of time? People told me I was crazy for spending $300 on a pair of jeans and $500 on a pair of headphones and they were WELL worth it, but I at least had the chance to try those out first ahha. I guess I'm mostly questioning it because between buying the second TWSBI and the number of nibs I went through trying to get one i liked, i almost could have gotten a pilot VP or something. Not that I mind.

 

Now to figure out what paper I like the most. . .but thats for another topic I guess

Edited April 28, 2011 by erratik

[uzkntuocmw]

Price has very little to do with how well a pen writes. Some of the very cheap pens (Safari, Prera) can write very well, and some of the expensive pens are just there to look pretty and cost lots because they're covered in bling.

[WriterJP]

I agree. I've writen with pens which cost 25 dollars, and pens that cost over 2,000. To be honest, the best performing nibs I've ever written with have been the Lamy 2000 ($150USD) and some of the Caran D'ache ($275-500USD) models. The Montegrappa NeroUno is also nice, but only if you like a very flexible nib.

 

What you'll find is *the perfect nib* is based entirely on personal preference, but price has no direct correlation on performance.

 

JP

[erratik]

I understand. I just fear that with as picky as I am, I may be stuck spending an excessively large amount of money on a wild goose chase or settling and wondering what else is out there. I know what im looking for in a pen, theres just so many possible places to look its a bit overwhelming.

 

but like, some pens have 14k gold, 18k gold, steel nibs, etc.

 

is 14k vs 18k going to make any sort of difference in how the pen feels when put to paper? or is that all about shading and flexing and line variation and such? because i could care less about that. I just want a super smooth pen with as fine a line as possible while maintaining good ink flow, and actually would prefer zero line variation. I try my darndest to keep constant pressure, but after hours of grinding through differential equations (physics student ahha), things get crazy

Edited April 28, 2011 by erratik

[WriterJP]

As someone who has recently become ludicrously immersed in this collective hobby...I would suggest you do some research at a store which specializes in pens if at all possible. If you live near a major city, there is most certainly a pen store which would be willing to help you out.

 

Where I live in New Jersey, there are several within range (such as Paradise Pen Co., as well as being a skip from NYC).

 

While you are in there, ask the shopkeeper to dip the nibs of the displays and let you write with them. Most reputable writing instrument dealers allow you to test your pen of interest before purchasing.

 

I doubt you are on a wild goose chase; have hope! What exactly are you looking for in a nib? A fine line with smooth flow? Something akin to a pin of ice writing on a mirror? Are you looking for something with more feedback from your paper? There is definitely a pen out there for everyone, I can assure you that.

[mdbrown]

Alternatively, if there is a pen club in your area that would be an excellent way to see what's out there. If you are in an area that has pen shows that would also be a good way to see what's out there. Until you try a variety of pens you don't know what's out there and may not even know what you want yet. Before you fork over a lot of money, try out as many different pens as you can to get an idea of what's what...

[WriterJP]

 

but like, some pens have 14k gold, 18k gold, steel nibs, etc.

 

is 14k vs 18k going to make any sort of difference in how the pen feels when put to paper? or is that all about shading and flexing and line variation and such? because i could care less about that. I just want a super smooth pen with as fine a line as possible while maintaining good ink flow, and actually would prefer zero line variation. I try my darndest to keep constant pressure, but after hours of grinding through differential equations (physics student ahha), things get crazy

 

14k vs 18k really, as far as I have ever experienced, makes very little to no difference. As far as gold versus steel, it's mainly cosmetic. The use in the old days for gold was that is it was far more resistant to corrosion than old school steel; now, the alloys and material they use in regards to stainless steel is worlds better. Mostly now, gold nibs are expected on pens that cost more, mostly to help "explain" the increased price tag. It is my understanding that gold has slightly more flex than steel.

 

As far as the nib point however, neither stainless steel nor gold are present. That little ball of material which actually makes contact with the paper is generally a different alloy (known as iridium). Getting the shape correctly of that alloy piece is what truly makes the writing experience wonderful or abysmal with respect to how it "feels". Ink flow can be affected by the alignment of the tines, but it is reasonable to expect that right out of the box, this shouldn't be an issue with a quality instrument.

 

It has also been my experience that Asian manufactured pens (hero, pilot, etc.), ON AVERAGE, run finer in nib line width than European manufacturers. Again, take this for what it's worth.

 

Also, the greater the flex, ON AVERAGE, the easier it is to get line variation; this is most apparent on nibs which are labeled as italic, or those with gratuitous amounts of flex.

[erratik]

I would like a nib that's floating in thickness somewhere close my 0.4mm gel sharbo, while still being as smooth to write with (or smoother) than a pilot G2 or my A.G. Spalding & Bros Rollerball. Something that keeps very consistent line width regardless of direction of travel or writing angle (to some degree, vectors and diagrams and such can get kinda intense these days). If it has some beautiful shading, thats cool too but isn't a big issue. Something that lays a shiny wet line that makes me slow down and enjoy writing without smudging up my paper. Something like an old roadster. Like when you swap from shaving with an electric or a mach 3 to a nice, expensive badger hair brush and heavy well made safety razor. Something that makes you step back and just go "wow I ENJOY this" you know?

 

As for the body of the pen, I'd like it to weigh somewhere between 19 and 23 grams (filled), and (ideally) somewhere between 8mm and 13mm in diameter, about 135mm in length

 

I'm not OCD I swear!

 

And I have no idea if there's any sort of pen shop near me. I'm in the heart of Southeastern Louisiana. MAYBE something in Baton Rouge or New Orleans, but i'm thinking that the odds of that are the same as the odds of finding a selvage denim retailer (there aren't any. I had to go to Tokyo for my jeans )

[JonSzanto]

Just one thing to add: those people were right - $300 for a pair of jeans is certifiably insane. Imagine the bottle of wine you could have gotten for that amount!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[erratik]

Just one thing to add: those people were right - $300 for a pair of jeans is certifiably insane. Imagine the bottle of wine you could have gotten for that amount!!

 

 

 

 

uggghhhhh but the beautiful selvage and the zimbabwe cotton and the beautiful fading and the lack of washing them. . . .

 

 

though I could have held off and gotten a decent entry level tube amp for my headphones. . . . I have way too expenisive hobbies for a lowly physics major

[Beechwood]

I gave a £1 pen and a £100 pen to a non pen user and asked them which nib they thought was best, they picked the cheapie as being the best writer.

 

And I agreed.

[Ernst Bitterman]

On the 14k v. 18k question (or, saints preserve us, 22k) it's partially a question of semantics and partially a question of bragging rights. The latter I'm clearer on-- "The 22k point we use has more gold involved, so you should pay more!"

 

On the other point, I understand that there's something in French law that says anything under 18k/750 isn't allowed to call itself gold, so makers there must use at least 18k to be allowed to advertise as having gold points (makers like Parker and Waterman), as must those who want to sell there. I am not entirely certain about this, and will happily accept correction if I'm in the middle of misleading people.

 

Looking at gold or steel-- I think it's a little easier to get gold points (14k or higher) which are both springy and corrosion-resistant than it is steel.

 

The difference between a $50 and a $150 pen is a combination of advertising, degree of craftsmanship, and materials. As the price goes up, the relative importance of these variables shifts.

Edited April 28, 2011 by Ernst Bitterman

[erratik]

I see.

 

 

well I certainly like the aesthetics of the pilot VP, and the fact that asian F's on average are finer than western F's is attractive as well

 

just wish I could write with one :X

[hbquikcomjamesl]

For my own part, I was pleasantly shocked at the feel and the smoothness of a $15 Pirre Paul "Wood." Straight out of the padded envelope, it writes as well as any of my Pelikans do on thoroughly broken-in nibs (and better than they do on brand-new nibs). And unlike the Pelikano that was the subject of my first penbash, it writes dry enough that Pelikan brown ink actually comes out looking like brown, instead of a heavy sepia (or a slightly anemic black).

 

If only they came in a version that, unmodified, could be filled without disassembly.

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Short answer to the original question (i.e., "what exactly is the difference between a $50 pen and a $150 pen?"):

 

$100.

[JefferyS]

You used to be able to get a 14K gold nib on a $150 pen, but the ante has been upped over the years. I prefer the feel of a gold nib over a steel nib, and they are less likely to corrode. A Bexley Elegancia is a nice looking pen for $100 (steel nib).

[RMN]

The initial question is inviting a snide remark like: A great night on the town.. (or as James answered above while I was typing: $100)

 

However it is not that easy. Here are some ramblings on your questions.

 

A 15$ pen may write better than a 150$ one. But that is between brands. A company like, say Waterman would never make a cheap pen be on average a better pen than a more expensive one in their range. It is the same as with cars. If you make the larger better car cheaper than the smaller mediocre car you won't sell the mediocre car any more.

That is simple brand economics.

 

Inside the same brand-range a higher price will give you better or more expensive materials. You might find a gold nib on the 150 pen, but most likely steel on the 50 pen. It's not that a gold nib is so much more expensive to make, but after the whole retail chain with everybody getting their share a 15 increase in price in the factory may become a 50 increase in your B&M store.

The gold nib is more expensive, but that does not mean it is also a better nib. There are great steel nibs and very bad gold nibs. But that is explained elsewhere in detail, also on this board.

 

Between brands comparison is even more difficult. You mention TWSBI. This is a starting company making fairly cheap pens, and they have a good name. They do not have as much overhead as say Parker or Waterman or.. So likely a 50 TWSBI will be better than a 50 Parker. Once their sales go up they will have to expand the business and will have to change their prices accordingly (more overhead).

 

Pens are also emotion. If you call a new version a Limited edition people are sometimes lead to pay more for that pen. There is no rational reason for this. An LE will write the same as a non LE of the same design. But the fact that you have pen 5 of only 50 means more to people than having pen 5634 out of 12464 (and counting). No rationale in terms of writing performance. But then again, some LEs are so darn pretty....

 

Basically, the higher priced pens ARE better pens, but you can always have a baddie. People here admire the Lamy 2000. Well, mine was a dud. It had a bad nib. Had to send it back to get a new nib. That one writes OK. (but not more than that. And there it comes to another factor: Taste. You specify optimum sizes/weights. Well then. I am 99% sure you will not like some of my best pens, as they are over 60 grams.

 

Something about nib sizes. There is no international nib size standard. If I want to call a 1 mm nib a fine, than I can do so. Every factory has their own sizechart, and even inside one brand there are differences. Most of the time the nib size is measured on the pellet on top of your nib, NOT on the line it produces.

 

Even in one type of pen, one M could write totally different from another M. The grinding on the second nib may be slightly different, the flow may vary beacause of how the nib was placed on the feed, the tines may be just that little bit more apart, and so on.

 

Only a nibmeister who does custom work may get you two pens that write (almost) identical, but you pay a lot for that handywork. You could get that in regular brands, but at great cost. And for most people that is just not worth the extra money...

 

So alas, there is no easy answer to your Topic question.

 

But, in my opinion, my more expensive pens give me better writing joy, on average. And that is a matter of taste. (De gustibus...)

 

 

D.ick

Edited April 28, 2011 by RMN

[pkoko]

Sounds to me you will need to try Japanese Pens with Fine and EF nibs. I would reccomend Pilot/Namiki and Sailor. Japanese pens have very smooth fine nibs. I would say that nothing that I ever used beats Sailor 1911 Fine nib in terms of smoothness. But you need to write small with it.

[Ernst Bitterman]

A company like, say Waterman would never make a cheap pen be on average a better pen than a more expensive one in their range.

 

...which is why the Phileas was withdrawn.

[redisburning]

Sounds to me you will need to try Japanese Pens with Fine and EF nibs. I would reccomend Pilot/Namiki and Sailor. Japanese pens have very smooth fine nibs. I would say that nothing that I ever used beats Sailor 1911 Fine nib in terms of smoothness. But you need to write small with it.

 

Sailor's fine is bonkers good at what it does. It's very fine, and very dry, but doesnt feel that way on paper. Yes it's a nail, but so what?

 

This topic is as dead as a dead horse can get; all the meat's picked off the bones and the skeleton has been crushed in and dried out. I see the same sentiments in EVERY hobby; my benchmade cuts as well as your sebenza, my casio tells time better than your oyster, my glock shoots as well as your Ed Brown custom, my Camaro is just as fast as your M5. If that's really honestly good enough for you, save your money.