Why Can't We Have Silver Nibs!

[adi2009_0812]

 

 

Now i know silver corrodes with ink.. BUT...if there is stainless steel... why isn't there stainless silver yet!!

 

What is stopping the manufacturers from offering it...??

Why can't I have a gold like nib in a $50 pen like TWSBI from Speedy??

 

 

Any of the distinguished chemistry/physics students among us please englighten me...

[jar]

Steel is an alloy.

 

Silver is an element.

 

Alloys of silver have been used in nibs for at least a half century, and personally I probably have forty or fifty such pens.

 

It really is that simple.

[Possum Hill]

Steel is an alloy.

 

Silver is an element.

 

Alloys of silver have been used in nibs for at least a half century, and personally I probably have forty or fifty such pens.

 

It really is that simple.

Interesting!

 

What pens used silver alloy nibs? When were they made? How do they write?

[FrankB]

"What pens used silver alloy nibs? When were they made? How do they write?"

 

I was thinking the exact same thing. I have never seen (at least not to my knowledge) or heard of a silver or silver alloy nib. I am really curious.

[Taurean]

Sheaffer is known to have used an alloy of Silver and Palladium (abbreviated as Pd/Ag) in Snorkels and PFMs. That's the only example I am aware of.

[Edub]

Why do you want to spend more money on a nib that looks the same? alloy or silver, well ... no difference. And Gold is just used because gold has a special value for us all, it's kind of thing that keeps it's value and is very expensive. They do not need gold in Nibs but people like it, therefore they will sell them. But silver is not as expensive as Gold , has no good "material benifits" and people do not think it's expensive when they see it ( at least i am not ). So it's kind of nonesense to build this nibs in my eyes.

[jar]

Steel is an alloy.

 

Silver is an element.

 

Alloys of silver have been used in nibs for at least a half century, and personally I probably have forty or fifty such pens.

 

It really is that simple.

Interesting!

 

What pens used silver alloy nibs? When were they made? How do they write?

 

Sheaffer use PdAg nibs in many of their pens and they write just fine. Esterbrook IIRC also offered a line of PdAg (89xx? ) nibs as did Pelikan.

 

There were likely others as well.

[sentraser165]

+1 on the Sheaffer Snorkel. It says Palladium Silver right on the nib!

[UltraMagnus]

why isn't there stainless silver yet!!

The is, it is called argentium silver.

[Scriver]

Steel is an alloy.

 

Silver is an element.

 

Alloys of silver have been used in nibs for at least a half century, and personally I probably have forty or fifty such pens.

 

It really is that simple.

 

Jar, this is not quite right (i's a bit like saying gold is an element, not an alloy). While it is true that silver is an element, the silver used for domestic items is typically sterling silver, which is an alloy. Like pure gold, pure silver is too soft for most uses and so is alloyed with other elements to strengthen it and improve its properties, including corrosion resistance. But alloys with a high enough silver content to appear silver are generally still too corrosion resistant to avoid significant tarnish.

 

Sheaffer's Pd/Ag nibs are made with a palladium-silver alloy that, I believe, is more palladium than silver. That is, it is a palladium alloy, not a silver alloy.

[Scriver]

why isn't there stainless silver yet!!

The is, it is called argentium silver.

 

I fair point. I am not familiar with the corrosion resistance of argentium silver, so I don't know if it would hold up in pens, but it is supposed to be a significant advance over traditional sterling silver.

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Both my high school and university class rings are of silver/palladium alloys.

 

I believe it has to do with both corrosion resistance and hardness.

 

I distinctly remember that in high school, the Jostens representative told us in so many words that while both sterling and 14Kt gold were available, we would be better off with either a silver/palladium alloy or with 10Kt gold.

 

The reason why gold is used for nibs is the same reason that it's used for high-reliability electrical contacts: corrosion resistance. Which is to say that a gold plated nib is nearly as corrosion resistant as a solid gold one.

[handwriter]

Scriver

"But alloys with a high enough silver content to appear silver are generally still too corrosion resistant to avoid significant tarnish"

No. Unlike gold, even 100% pure silver does tarnish just on standing in the air.

[ticoun]

i have a Sheaffer Imperial II deluxe with a short palladium silver triumph nib, and it's my best writer. but those nibs are incredibly stiff, even stiffer than steel nibs.

[Inka]

Hunt [C. Howard Hunt Pen Company] of Camden, NJ used silver alloy nibs during WWII, dip pens specifically I believe, when other metals like steels were only used for making munitions.

Drafting pen sets came with nibs in both silver or gold, silver for tracing paper and gold for the plastic film used.

Search pen history and nib materials used and you're likely to come up with many more that used silver nibs, especially during wartime when bans were placed on steel/ stainless steel for use other than specialty items on a list of allowable manufacturing using steel.

 

There's also the RU-PL [Ruthenium-Plathenium] and OS-PL [Osmiridium-Plathenium] nibs used in Parker "51"s I'm aware of, not silver but not gold either.

[Scriver]

Scriver

"But alloys with a high enough silver content to appear silver are generally still too corrosion resistant to avoid significant tarnish"

No. Unlike gold, even 100% pure silver does tarnish just on standing in the air.

 

Sorry about the typo. Yes, I meant corrossion prone.

[UltraMagnus]

There's also the RU-PL [Ruthenium-Plathenium] and OS-PL [Osmiridium-Plathenium] nibs used in Parker "51"s I'm aware of, not silver but not gold either.

Do you mean Platinum? I cant find any information on what "Plathenium" is.

[ticoun]

There's also the RU-PL [Ruthenium-Plathenium] and OS-PL [Osmiridium-Plathenium] nibs used in Parker "51"s I'm aware of, not silver but not gold either.

Do you mean Platinum? I cant find any information on what "Plathenium" is.

plathenium is usually an alloy made of platinum and ruthenium.

[fierdog]

My understanding is that gold alloys were/are used for nibs to prevent corrosion from iron gall inks (origional inks often used acids in their formulation). Silver is relatively corrosion resistant, but gold falls below it on the activity series (one of the most inert metals). This is why silver currency is rarely recovered from shipwrecks and gold is significantly more commonly found and why medevial illuminated manuscripts written in silver metal ink look black.

 

I assume that the reason silver is rarely used in nibs is a practical one; why would one use silver alloy when stainless steel is cheaper and more corrosion resistant?

[D Armstrong]

I think you will find that no one has ever made a production pen that uses any kind of pure metal (not counting fancified special edition pens). Especially when it comes to precious metals, they are all heavily alloyed.

 

As an example, the karat system refers specifically to how much of your gold is actually something else. The karat number refers to 24 parts in total; thus, 14 karat gold is 14 parts gold, and ten parts something else. Common combinations can include copper (red gold), silver (electrum, or green gold), nickel (white gold),etc. Often it is a combination of non-gold metals. This is done for any number of reasons. Often hardness is an issue, but melting point, flexibility, ductility, weight, or other factors can be involved, and most, if not all, of these are issues in pen manufacture. Many inks tend to react with metals, and manufacturers were, and are, very aware of this. A high gold content is one of the best ways to combat this, hence the higher karat content in higher quality pens.

 

There's also the RU-PL [Ruthenium-Plathenium] and OS-PL [Osmiridium-Plathenium] nibs used in Parker "51"s I'm aware of, not silver but not gold either.

 

It should be pointed out (pardon the pun), but the RU-PL and OS-PL refers to the tipping material, not the rest of the nib. P51 nibs were made of 14K gold, with the balance made up of silver, zinc, and copper; see Shepherd (2004), p96.

 

Argentium is a patented alloy out of the UK, where silver is mixed with germanium, rather than copper. It is effectively tarnish-free, and is about 20% more expensive than standard silver alloys. It has only been available since about 1990, which is likely why you don't see it used in too many pens. It would, actually, be a fabulous substance for nibs.

 

John Mottishaw has an excellent article examining the use of metal in nibs at http://www.nibs.com/article4.html. He specifically examines tipping materials, but his research is easy to read and gives excellent insight into pen manufacturing practices of the past century.

 

I assume that the reason silver is rarely used in nibs is a practical one; why would one use silver alloy when stainless steel is cheaper and more corrosion resistant?

 

Heh heh. I think you've hit the nail on the head!