White Dot Placement

[DaleR]

While out antiquing with the Mrs. today, I picked up five pens. Among them was a brown striated Sheaffer Balance with a 14K gold-filled cap. The interesting thing is, the white dot is located on the bottom point of the plunger knob, and not on the cap above the clip. I've never seen this before...Maybe this was how they placed it for the gold caps? Might this placement be a clue as to the approiximate manufacturing date of the pen?

 

Dale

[Roger W.]

While out antiquing with the Mrs. today, I picked up five pens. Among them was a brown striated Sheaffer Balance with a 14K gold-filled cap. The interesting thing is, the white dot is located on the bottom point of the plunger knob, and not on the cap above the clip. I've never seen this before...Maybe this was how they placed it for the gold caps? Might this placement be a clue as to the approiximate manufacturing date of the pen?

 

Dale

 

They didn't figure out metal cap placement of the white dot until the late 1940's. The white dot at the end of the barrel occurs as early as 1940 though the catalogue places the white dot on the side of the pen in catalogues after that (maybe showing the white dot in the catalogue was important and that could not be done with the dot at the end? or maybe it was not that important to update the artwork?).

 

Roger W.

[jar]

One other question. Where are the threads located on the pen body?

[DaleR]

The threads are located at the very top (bottom?) of the section, right at the nib. I found out yesterday that what I have is a 1st year (1939) Sheaffer Crest. One of my fellow St. Louis Pen Users has one just like mine, but his is a lever-filler. Apparently , Sheaffer made the Crest in either the lever or the vacuum configuration, but only for the first year. The also move the placement of the white dot after that as well.

 

Dale

[jar]

Neat. A pointy sucker isn't it?

[Roger W.]

The threads are located at the very top (bottom?) of the section, right at the nib. I found out yesterday that what I have is a 1st year (1939) Sheaffer Crest. One of my fellow St. Louis Pen Users has one just like mine, but his is a lever-filler. Apparently , Sheaffer made the Crest in either the lever or the vacuum configuration, but only for the first year. The also move the placement of the white dot after that as well.

 

Dale

 

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO! At least you are here. We've been getting the word out for years now but, I guess everyone hasn't heard. There is no such thing as a "first year crest!". They are in every catalogue from 1937! (not 1939) thru 1941! That would be 5 years of first year crests. Earlier crests have the white dot on the side of the barrel and later ones on the end of the blind cap but every catalogue shows the white dot on the side of the barrel though it clearly moved earlier (maybe done to illustrate the white dot or maybe they didn't think it that important to fix).

 

So please tell your friend there is no such thing as a first year crest.

 

Roger W.

[Glenn-SC]

So please tell your friend there is no such thing as a first year crest.

Would not the 1937 version be the "First Year"?

[Roger W.]

So please tell your friend there is no such thing as a first year crest.

Would not the 1937 version be the "First Year"?

 

Glenn;

 

In a highly limited way that is true however, the use of "first year" in this context always means threads on the section. Unless you have a pen with the original sticker "47T" or "C47T" there is no absolute way to determine it is a "first year". To be clear it is not called a "Crest" until 1938. So if you have a pen with threads on the section it can't be a "first year Crest" because they never called them that in the first year! I'm really advocating that the whole term "first year" is so meaningless when it comes to Crests that people stop using the term altogether.

 

I don't like vacs but, in looking thru the catalogue the vac style does not appear to have been offered until 1941 so very far from the "first year" indeed.

 

Roger W.

[jar]

So please tell your friend there is no such thing as a first year crest.

Would not the 1937 version be the "First Year"?

 

Glenn;

 

In a highly limited way that is true however, the use of "first year" in this context always means threads on the section. Unless you have a pen with the original sticker "47T" or "C47T" there is no absolute way to determine it is a "first year". To be clear it is not called a "Crest" until 1938. So if you have a pen with threads on the section it can't be a "first year Crest" because they never called them that in the first year! I'm really advocating that the whole term "first year" is so meaningless when it comes to Crests that people stop using the term altogether.

 

I don't like vacs but, in looking thru the catalogue the vac style does not appear to have been offered until 1941 so very far from the "first year" indeed.

 

Roger W.

 

Roger, is there any variation in the shape of the cap in those first few years? Were they all pointed like the one in the middle of this picture or did they become more rounded like the classic Balance at some point?

 

http://www.fototime.com/40AB8B0057FD11F/standard.jpg

[Glenn-SC]

Roger,

I guess my point is that there was a point in time when a "Crest" like pen first appeared, it may or may not have been called a "Crest" and may have changed design features but it appeared at some time.

Or did the Crest "evolve" slowly over time from a pen not quite a "Crest" into one?

Glenn

[Roger W.]

Roger,

I guess my point is that there was a point in time when a "Crest" like pen first appeared, it may or may not have been called a "Crest" and may have changed design features but it appeared at some time.

Or did the Crest "evolve" slowly over time from a pen not quite a "Crest" into one?

Glenn

 

Glenn;

 

I got your point - there was a "first year crest" and I explained the only way to detect such was to have a 47T or C47T sticker on it. The only one that is crest like that we know instantly is the sterling capped 47T's as they seem only to have been made in 1937. The problem is that when people are talking about "first year crests" they are talking about a section threaded pen that was made for five years and not just in 1937 (or '39 another date often used or any other date that doesn't apply). Also, as I pointed out it wasn't called a crest in the first year of production anyway.

 

I'll cut to the quick - call it a section threaded crest and drop the "first year" carp. For some reason people are real happy with this "first year" myth that has been used for so long in association with this pen. It is wrong, in error and otherwise an uneducated position to call it "first year" anything. It is also strangely associated with this pen - we don't go around saying "first year flattop", "first year balance", "first year Targa" - just first year crest - see it doesn't make any sense especially as we now know it isn't.

 

Roger W.

[Glenn-SC]

Roger,

I guess my point is that there was a point in time when a "Crest" like pen first appeared, it may or may not have been called a "Crest" and may have changed design features but it appeared at some time.

Or did the Crest "evolve" slowly over time from a pen not quite a "Crest" into one?

Glenn

 

Glenn;

 

I got your point - there was a "first year crest" and I explained the only way to detect such was to have a 47T or C47T sticker on it. The only one that is crest like that we know instantly is the sterling capped 47T's as they seem only to have been made in 1937. The problem is that when people are talking about "first year crests" they are talking about a section threaded pen that was made for five years and not just in 1937 (or '39 another date often used or any other date that doesn't apply). Also, as I pointed out it wasn't called a crest in the first year of production anyway.

 

I'll cut to the quick - call it a section threaded crest and drop the "first year" carp. For some reason people are real happy with this "first year" myth that has been used for so long in association with this pen. It is wrong, in error and otherwise an uneducated position to call it "first year" anything. It is also strangely associated with this pen - we don't go around saying "first year flattop", "first year balance", "first year Targa" - just first year crest - see it doesn't make any sense especially as we now know it isn't.

 

Roger W.

Roger,

Thanks for the explanation!

 

PS I DO go around saying 'My First Year Parker "51"' (even though there were prototypes made and in circulation before the "First Year" pens).

[Roger W.]

 

 

PS I DO go around saying 'My First Year Parker "51"' (even though there were prototypes made and in circulation before the "First Year" pens).

 

Hi, Glenn;

 

I don't collect Parkers so I can't help you with that one. We don't even say first year snorkel when we talk about the ones with gold snorkel tubes. It's just odd that it is a term so associated with crests.

 

Roger W.