Considering A Ph Meter For My Reviews

[corniche]

Greetings all,

 

Lately, my reviews have been devoid a pH reading because there are so many new inks on the market that are not in Greg Clark’s last book. Unfortunately, my original pH meter, (a professional model with the probes), no longer works properly, so I am considering purchasing a new pH meter. Most likely, one of the less expensive single probe electronic models; these units are not “spot on” accurate, but I believe they are sufficient for our needs here.

 

However, BEFORE I spend the money, I would like to know your opinions. First, I’m not sure how many people really benefit from my reviews; I write these things solely as a service to you guys so I am not so much “dead wood” here; however, if my reviews do little or nothing for you, (or you’d prefer it if I just shut up ), - please let me know - really - and I’ll save my time AND money.

 

Second option, perhaps you enjoy my reviews, but pH isn’t important to you, in which case, I can save my money. The third option, you would be interested in knowing the pH levels of the inks I review and hence, should buy the meter. Please let me know what you’re thinking, so I know which way to go on this.

 

All the best,

 

Sean

Edited February 5, 2011 by S. P. Colfer

[lapis]

I myself don't worry about inks' pH. My oldest ink is only 40-50 years old and I'd say that in the last 10-20, no inks are manufactured which could be precarious. I too have been interested in pHs. To be honest, more in regard to coughing out a piece of information for here in the forum. Especially iron galls.

Why not start off with pH paper sticks? Don't forget that they are not only available in 1-14 levels but also all sub-ranges like 6-7, 7-8 etc. I know that because I used to use them for quick pH checks of HPLC buffers for cell culturing (in cases of doubt or more precise documentaion, I of course used a pH-meter, but all that rinsing and calibration was often unnecessary).

Also, if you happened to worry about the ink's own discolouring of the strips, you can always dilute, say 1:10 and adjust the read-off yourself.

I consider any possible pH aberrations in inks to be no worse than, say, an overabundant saturation. Washing/rinsing, with or without a very mild solution of dishwater soap has always yielded an adequate amount of maintenance, IMO.

 

MIke

[AlanE]

Hi Sean

 

Your reveiws are great !! I always read them. I dont worry too much about PH cos as Lapis says, there are not that many inks that are going to be that dodgy. So, save your dosh and continue as you are. If it aint broke, dont fix it ! IMO

 

Best

 

Alan

[Black Rose]

I enjoy your reviews but currently don't have a need to know the pH of an ink.

[Lloyd]

If you read some of SamCapote's pH related postings, you'll soon see the ardor required in trying to get accurate pH measurements.

[SamCapote]

LOL! It's great to see who voted for what. If you decide to get a pH meter, you may find this thread of value....as I wrestled with the same issue. I think it is useful to know pH ranges as far as it being another characteristic and design of the ink....and especially for those concerned about mixing inks or using them in vintage pens. Then there is also the other concern I have regarding using Phenol as a biocide which is less effective above pH 8.00. On a practical basis, if you do reviews sporadically, you really need to calibrate the pH meter each time...which means you have to keep going through those sets of fluids. It's easier to do a "slew" of inks at one time once you have the calibration liquids open.

[dennis_f]

Sean,

I read all of your reviews, and find them incredibly useful. Thanks a million for doing all of the work required to keep us up-to-speed.

 

As for the pH levels: up until I read your headline I didn't realize that this was an important characteristic. Given that I haven't worried about it for all the years that I've been using fps, I don't think you should bother with the meter.

 

D.

Edited February 7, 2011 by dennis_f

[corniche]

Hello Lapis, I go along with you; personally, I do not have a deep-seated fear of ink pH because for years I used WMbb with a pH of 2.8 and never experienced any problems with it. I don’t know- I've heard of a couple of people here who claim WMbb runined their pens; maybe I’ve just been fortunate. Furthermore, I am not much of a mixologist anymore; I used to do a lot of ink blending, but now I basically use my inks straight from the bottles, so worrying about mixing acids and bases is no longer a concern of mine either.

 

However, for the sake of the people here who are interested in those things, I thought it would be nice to include the data; however, the single probe meters are a lot more complex to use than I thought and I can’t afford a two probe unit. Your suggestion of using pH strips with diluted formulations and then “doing the math” is an intriguing suggestion and I will look into it further.

 

Hello AlanE, Thank you very much. . . and thank you for the wise advice- the way things are looking, I think I will take you up on it.

 

Hello Black Rose, Thanks and thanks for your input. BTW, isn’t your avatar an album cover- it looks eerily familiar???

 

Hello Lloyd, Yes, so I gather. . . .

 

Hello Sam, Yes! I’ve love to know who the four people are who’d like to see me “dry up and blow away.” :ltcapd: Oh well, I guess you can’t please everyone. . . at least they’re in the minority. . . I hope. Thanks for the link and the advice; since I do these reviews intermittently, (and considering my physical situation); it would probably behoove me to accept the majorative opinion here and skip it.

 

Hello Dennis, Thank you very much! I really appreciate your kind words; a lot of effort goes into those reviews and I’m glad my time and efforts have not been wasted; at lease in your case, (among a few others), that makes it worthwhile for me.

 

In summation, I think I'll give Lapis' idea a shot, (I may run this idea past Chemyst and see what he thinks of it). Those strips are inexpensive, so it won't cut into my dosh, (great term AlanE), and it may at least provide a solid clue as to what a particular inks pH is.

 

Again, thank you all,

 

Sean

[pharmacist]

If your nib get corroded by ink, than your FP is the problem. A good fountain pen nib is not attaced by acid inks like IG-ink. I am now using my own home-brewed IG-ink based on the german Urkundentinte specification and the ink must be very acid (I think near pH 2), which is stabilized using concentrated hydrochoric acid (about 1 %, so it is comparable to lemon juice). The ink actually flows better than the very dry Lamy Blue Black IG ink, which constantly dries out in my cheap papermate fountain pen, which not even has a gold nib but a plain stainless steel nib. Those having a fountain pen with a iridium or gold nib should be even more at ease.

[Trebster]

The pH meme just refuses to die. Just use the ink, enjoy the ink, but don't be afraid of ink. It's. Just. Ink.

[Black Rose]

Hello Black Rose, Thanks and thanks for your input. BTW, isn’t your avatar an album cover- it looks eerily familiar???

You are correct, it is an album cover.

 

It's the cover of my favorite Thin Lizzy album, Black Rose, featuring Gary Moore who passed away yesterday

[jomielll]

Hi Sean,

 

I enjoy your reviews a lot (and sad I won't ever see your ink)! I read Sam's thread about ink pH, and I found the different pH interesting--quite a spread! I do appreciate both your and Sam's hard work in ink reviews / ink topics, though I don't think that knowing these pH would make me change my ink behavior. I would continue using Sailor and Iroshizuku inks even though they are 9-10 pH, I just love their colors and characteristics too much.

[SamCapote]

Hello Sam, Yes! I've love to know who the four people are who'd like to see me "dry up and blow away." :ltcapd: Oh well, I guess you can't please everyone. . . at least they're in the minority. . . I hope. Thanks for the link and the advice; since I do these reviews intermittently, (and considering my physical situation); it would probably behoove me to accept the majorative opinion here and skip it.

 

(I may run this idea past Chemyst and see what he thinks of it).

 

You just click on the faint text showing the number of votes, which is a link. (5 votes [19.23%] - View)

 

Who voted for: Save your time AND money!

GeeTee, AlanE, Chemyst, Trebster, specialk0449

 

Oh, whoops.....you may want to rethink your consultation idea. :roflmho:

 

I do know absolutely for a fact that the cheap paper "litmus" type strips are worthless, as the ink colors distort any color change interpretation.

Edited February 8, 2011 by SamCapote

[SamCapote]

The pH meme just refuses to die. Just use the ink, enjoy the ink, but don't be afraid of ink. It's. Just. Ink.

 

You don't need to be afraid of electricity, battery acid, rattle snakes, Ouija Boards, or microwave ovens either, but it can be interesting and useful in certain applications to extend beyond a superficial awareness of things you are interested in.

[Trebster]

The pH meme just refuses to die. Just use the ink, enjoy the ink, but don't be afraid of ink. It's. Just. Ink.

 

You don't need to be afraid of electricity, battery acid, rattle snakes, Ouija Boards, or microwave ovens either, but it can be interesting and useful in certain applications to extend beyond a superficial awareness of things you are interested in.

 

Sean's work and enthusiasm is top drawer, and I have told him exactly that. As discussed, I hold that weighting an ink by its pH can lead to misinterpretation of its quality. While pH can certainly be of interest to inveterate mixers, pH can be easily misunderstood. It's a slippery slope, as acknowledged.

[tfwall]

In summation, I think I'll give Lapis' idea a shot, (I may run this idea past Chemyst and see what he thinks of it).

 

PM inbound my friend.

[TMA]

The pH level will be interesting, so long as it is in the context of dye colour, permanence, etc.

I don't believe that there is a current ink being made that will affect a nib or feed due to it's pH*, especially since the vast majority of nibs are made either of stainless steel or a gold alloy.

Another point is that you probably don't need more than 1 significant digit of accuracy and precision (i.e. 2, 3, 6, 7, 9) in the context of inks, dyes, pens and papers. Sticking to that will definitely keep your costs and complexity down.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* That is not to say that there are not some inks with solvents that might affect some feeds. I have seen mention in here somewhere where it is claimed that Quink damaged a feed. If Quink will damage a feed, what hope do we have with Lamy and Mont Blanc iron gall inks, Wancher inks, various Noodler's inks, in fact any ink that contains biocides, surfactants and flow-control substances.

[ImolaS3]

Reviews are good and useful, thanks - PH don't care a jot.

[corniche]

Hello Black Rose, Thanks and thanks for your input. BTW, isn’t your avatar an album cover- it looks eerily familiar???

You are correct, it is an album cover.

 

It's the cover of my favorite Thin Lizzy album, Black Rose, featuring Gary Moore who passed away yesterday

 

Hello Black Rose,

 

I should have known- my brother Kevin was always a big TL fan; I liked them too but not as much as my brother did.

 

How sad, my dad entered into the next life the very same day. Perhaps they've met.

 

All the best,

 

Sean

[corniche]

Hello Pharmacist, Thank you for your input.

 

Hello Trebster, Thank you for your kind words and advice; both here and b/c.

 

Hello JomieIII, Thank you very much for your kind words; I really appreciate them. I can also appreciate your loyalty to Sailor and Iroshizuku inks.

 

Hello Sam, Thank you for all the tips and guidance along the way.

 

Hello Chemyst, Thank you for all the useful and helpful tips and information sent b/c.

 

Hello TMA, Thanks for your input.

 

Hello ImolaS3, Thank you much!

 

I have decided to abstain from purchasing any pH metering equipment at this time because I do not believe the cost and effort involved is equivalent to any possible risk factors. However, I would encourage anyone who mixes or blends inks of different brands to do so in an isolated environment, i.e., not in your pen. Do it in a vial and set it aside for a few days to see how the inks interact.

 

All the best,

 

Sean