Writing On Shiny Paper

[milkb0at]

Do you know the shiny / glossy paper you get with birthday cards, postcards and so on? I have found that fountain pen ink can take an age to dry and stick.

 

My main ink choice, Noodler's Walnut, is pretty unusable on such paper as it takes forever to dry and even then might still smear.

 

My wife's Noodler's Eternal Hunter Green works fairly well as long as you give it a bit of time to dry, so we used her pen when doing Christmas cards.

 

Quink blue seems to be in the middle of the two Noodler's.

 

What is the defining feature of the Eternal ink that makes it work on the glossy paper and not the Walnut? Is there an alternative to the Walnut e.g. is there an Eternal Walnut? Or how about, say, Diamine Chocolate Brown?

 

This thread suggests some black inks, putting talcum powder on the page or using, but I tend not to use black in.

 

(First post, by the way. Hello and thanks!)

[nicholasyeo]

The thing I like about coated paper is that bleed virtually does not occur, and the surface is nice and smooth... However smearing kind of makes it impractical...

[DanielB]

Welcome!

 

For this type of paper my choice is to use a Blue-Black ink with some iron-gall content. These tend to be very fast drying. Pelikan and Lamy Blue-Black are the ones I personally use, but there are others.

[DwarvenChef]

I feel your pain, my main goto ink is also Noodlers Walnut in my Pilot VP. Cards are a pain, but just a few minutes ago I filled that pen with Polar Brown and I'm looking for a card I can scribble on

[Fuddlestack]

 

Maybe there's a case for producing a series of FPN Greetings Cards featuring full frontal pictures of undraped fountain pens (the work of a moment, for sure...)

 

But in the likely event of that not happening, you could always tip in a piece of writing paper that screams opulence! in several registers, and write your greetings on that. Much more personal than Hallmark's one-size-fits-none sentiments.

[epo]

Isn't the point of ink that it reacts with-or at least is absorbed by-the paper? A glossy or other hard surface will prevent, or very much slow down, this process and the ink will eventually dry by evaporation but be just lying on the surface to be wiped away like a dry-wipe marker on a white board.

[Monophoto]

Depends on both the ink. I use a number of Noodler's inks - some work well on coated paper, some do not. Prime of the Commons and Polar Blue tend to work better than Bay State Blue and Green Marine.

 

It also depends on the nature of the coating. Some papers have a lacquer-like glossy surface - almost nothing works on these. The best you can do is use a pencil eraser to slightly buff the surface, and then use a Rapidograph with India Ink. You have to let the ink thoroughly dry before letting anything touch it.

[Fuddlestack]

Depends on both the ink. I use a number of Noodler's inks - some work well on coated paper, some do not. Prime of the Commons and Polar Blue tend to work better than Bay State Blue and Green Marine.

 

It also depends on the nature of the coating. Some papers have a lacquer-like glossy surface - almost nothing works on these. The best you can do is use a pencil eraser to slightly buff the surface, and then use a Rapidograph with India Ink. You have to let the ink thoroughly dry before letting anything touch it.

 

Reminds me of David Frost's advice to people filling in tax returns: if there's a box marked Do not write in this space, rub it hard with a wax candle on the basis that if you can't write there, why the hell should they?

[Chris]

Reminds me of David Frost's advice to people filling in tax returns: if there's a box marked Do not write in this space, rub it hard with a wax candle on the basis that if you can't write there, why the hell should they?

 

:roflmho: :roflmho: :roflmho: :roflmho: :roflmho: :roflmho:

 

Chris

 

(Got to do the tax return this weekend )

[Sandy1]

Hello,

 

I responded to a similar query here, Post #10: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/174613-private-reserve-american-blue/page__view__findpost__p__1753276

 

I continue to show a Written Sample on glossy card stock in my recent Ink Reviews, so if one is curious about a certain ink, then if I have done a Review it should include such a sample - early Reviews may not.

 

In general, I have found that Noodler's 'bulletproof' inks do not do well - typically there is little if any cellulose available to which they may adhere.

 

Most other inks do fairly well - but at reduced dye-loads. i.e. The coated surface may only have a capacity to absorb a low quantity of dye; anything greater will sit atop the surface where it may smudge and/or never dry. Consequently, I would suggest diluting an ink, and adding a surfactant which may allow greater penetration by reducing surface tension.

 

Use of a blotter goes without saying, OK?

 

On greeting cards, I still give them a brushing with climbers' chalk or gum sandarac as a default treatment.

 

Using a Dip Pen, I have achieved the best and most reliable results with StazOn stamp pad ink; and achieved fairly good line-width even on Mylar and plastic-coated surfaces (some origami papers) which have no 'tooth'.

 

Patience with dry time is essential - a day's wait would not be surprising.

 

YMMV dramatically according to the materials chosen and the methods used, and everything else.

 

Bye,

S1

[milkb0at]

Thanks all. It seems to be more trial and error than anything specific (except maybe iron gall). It is also true that even the Hunter Green can struggle on some papers, in which case we revert to ball-point (not always successful either) or similar.

 

It's a good excuse to try some new inks, I suppose. Unfortunately The Writing Desk (where I tend to buy pen stuff) is out of most Noodler's, so I'll delve into the weird and wonderful world of alternative brands.

[milkb0at]

Thanks Sandy. That is useful indeed!

[Northwoods]

For me, this is a case of making a round peg fit into a square peg. Just because you can use a fountain pen to write in a glossy card doesn't mean it's the best tool for the job. For coated paper, I'll use a dip pen with pigmented ink, a brush pen, or some variant of marker pen.

 

Sometimes we just need to adapt to the medium.

[KCat]

What is the defining feature of the Eternal ink that makes it work on the glossy paper and not the Walnut? Is there an alternative to the Walnut e.g. is there an Eternal Walnut? Or how about, say, Diamine Chocolate Brown?

 

 

I'm not positive what the defining feature is but I would guess it is more "detergent" or whatever fluid is being used to make inks flow because the same inks that stick well to those cards tend to be spread a little on cheap papers. At least, in my experience. But I believe it's more complex than that. A balance of factors. My beloved Violet Vote for example writes beautifully on a variety of papers but I don't see much in the sway of spread or feathering unless it's on really cheap paper (on which any ink would spread). I have found the eternals to be fairly consistent in this regard - they even write on post-its which never took my Aurora, WM, or PR inks. (Unless post-its have changed considerably - I haven't tried other inks on them in a while).

 

I used Ebony Green on glossy cards this Christmas and it worked very well. The Ebony line seems to have something about it that is similar to the eternals. A sort of "flat" look when dry. So perhaps it has the right balance for that sort of paper.

 

I'm surprised that Sandy has had the opposite experience with the bulletproof inks. Maybe it's Violet Vote in particular that I find so amenable since I no longer bother with the black or other bulletproofs (Hunter Green though was similar in behavior to VV). OR maybe it's just a matter of choice of shiny cards and luck of the draw on those.

Edited January 14, 2011 by KCat

[tonybelding]

Gel ink rollerball. Seriously.

 

I haven't found anything that works better for writing on slick surfaces. A good quality gel pen (my favorites are Zebras) will write on plastic surfaces that defeat fountain pens, rollerballs and even ballpoints. Also their writing qualities -- smoothness, wetness, etc. -- are quite good, very close to a good fountain pen. If I were in a situation (let's say travelling) where I couldn't have bottled ink, a rollerball with a bunch of Zebra JF gel refills would be my next option.

Edited January 14, 2011 by tonybelding

[milkb0at]

Gel ink rollerball. Seriously.

 

I haven't found anything that works better for writing on slick surfaces. A good quality gel pen (my favorites are Zebras) will write on plastic surfaces that defeat fountain pens, rollerballs and even ballpoints. Also their writing qualities -- smoothness, wetness, etc. -- are quite good, very close to a good fountain pen. If I were in a situation (let's say travelling) where I couldn't have bottled ink, a rollerball with a bunch of Zebra JF gel refills would be my next option.

 

I'm one of the seemingly few people in the world who doesn't like gel pens. Perhaps I haven't tried the very best, but I haven't got on with them. When everyone in the world was switching their Parker ball-point pens to the gel refills I switched mine back very quickly. The Pentel gels pens I've used have been ok but still not my favourite.

 

I find that the gels will also smudge on greetings cards etc. At least with ball-point it seems to either write or not, and if it does write (which is usually the case) it just works.

 

Luckily I'm mostly concerned with writing "Dear XXX, Happy Birthday, Love YYY" so it doesn't really matter what pen I use. I'll stick with my nice pens for "proper" writing.

[Sandy1]

For me, this is a case of making a round peg fit into a square peg. Just because you can use a fountain pen to write in a glossy card doesn't mean it's the best tool for the job. For coated paper, I'll use a dip pen with pigmented ink, a brush pen, or some variant of marker pen.

 

Sometimes we just need to adapt to the medium.

Hi,

 

I think I know what you're on about, and I certainly do not wish to speak for you, but to clarify:

 

The limiting factor is the FP ink - not the fountain pen (applicator) itself. So to use an FP ink in a brush pen is no more likely to be successful than using that same FP ink from an FP.

 

And the inks most likely to succeed are not FP inks, so use of an FP is a nonstarter.

 

Or ...???

 

Bye,

S1

Edited January 14, 2011 by Sandy1

[tonybelding]

Perhaps I haven't tried the very best, but I haven't got on with them. When everyone in the world was switching their Parker ball-point pens to the gel refills I switched mine back very quickly.

 

I tried those too and didn't like them. The ones I tried seemed dry and skippy.

 

I find the ubiquitous Pilot G2 works pretty decently, and the Zebras have been better than Pilot.

[psfred]

The problem with those cards is that they are not only super-calendared (rolled at VERY high pressure) but coated with at least clay and a binder. I've run into a few that didn't even like ball points, let alone any water based ink I tried (no Rapidograph ink at the time). Nasty. Felt tip pens also sometimes leave only a dotted line.

 

I prefer softer surface cards, and only get those that will accept fountain pen ink well.

 

You can use a sharpie on the others, solvent based inks work fine on whatever the coating is. Nasty to write with, smelly, and somewhat less that light resistant, but they do write on super shiny cards.

 

Peter

[Ada]

Welcome!

 

For this type of paper my choice is to use a Blue-Black ink with some iron-gall content. These tend to be very fast drying. Pelikan and Lamy Blue-Black are the ones I personally use, but there are others.

 

I have had good luck with R&K Scabiosa and Salix (both iron gall inks, but not blue-black -- the former is a dusky purple, the latter a grey-tinged blue).