Disassemble M400

[thoppen]

Hello fellow network members,

 

I am looking for an instruction on how to disasemble a M400. I have found the following link

 

http://www.penboard.de/penpoint/en/fillingsystems/PelikanPenRepairs.htm

 

but I was wondering if you know of any further information, or if you could give me any hints.

 

Thank you!

 

Regards, Tim

[Robert Alan]

Hello fellow network members,

 

I am looking for an instruction on how to disasemble a M400. I have found the following link

 

http://www.penboard....nPenRepairs.htm

 

but I was wondering if you know of any further information, or if you could give me any hints.

 

Thank you!

 

Regards, Tim

Hello there! The following information may be what you require.

 

From the book Pen Repair, A Practical Repair Guide for Collectable Pens & Pencils by Jim Marshall & Laurence Oldfield:

 

"Knocking It Out"

 

"The nib has been removed so after soaking and warming the barrel top, ensure that the piston is fully retracted back to the top. Insert a wooden punch, which is as big a diameter as possible (old knitting needles are ideal) and holding the pen in one's hand, give the punch a sharp hit with a hammer. No tapping -- a good quick bash, otherwise you can damage the piston.

 

 

If the barrel was well-prepared, one or two strong hits will move the whole unit. The piston is easily replaced with a new or better one or the piston gasket can be exchanged. It is not vital, but gluing on the replaced gasket will reduce the possibility of it being pulled off in use.

 

 

Before fitting the whole unit with a new piston, the gasket should be treated with some silicone grease to allow a smooth movement in the barrel."

 

 

I highly recommend reading Pen Repair, A Practical Repair Guide for Collectable Pens & Pencils. It is available from the Fountain Pen Hospital in New York City. I hope this information is helpful.

Good luck!

 

/Robert

Edited December 5, 2010 by Robert Alan

[thoppen]

Thank you Robert.

 

I will certainly find out if I can get this book, somewhere on the internet.

 

Thanks again. Regards, Tim

 

 

Hello fellow network members,

 

I am looking for an instruction on how to disasemble a M400. I have found the following link

 

http://www.penboard....nPenRepairs.htm

 

but I was wondering if you know of any further information, or if you could give me any hints.

 

Thank you!

 

Regards, Tim

Hello there! The following information may be what you require.

 

From the book Pen Repair, A Practical Repair Guide for Collectable Pens & Pencils by Jim Marshall & Laurence Oldfield:

 

"Knocking It Out"

 

"The nib has been removed so after soaking and warming the barrel top, ensure that the piston is fully retracted back to the top. Insert a wooden punch, which is as big a diameter as possible (old knitting needles are ideal) and holding the pen in one's hand, give the punch a sharp hit with a hammer. No tapping -- a good quick bash, otherwise you can damage the piston.

 

 

If the barrel was well-prepared, one or two strong hits will move the whole unit. The piston is easily replaced with a new or better one or the piston gasket can be exchanged. It is not vital, but gluing on the replaced gasket will reduce the possibility of it being pulled off in use.

 

 

Before fitting the whole unit with a new piston, the gasket should be treated with some silicone grease to allow a smooth movement in the barrel."

 

 

I highly recommend reading Pen Repair, A Practical Repair Guide for Collectable Pens & Pencils. It is available from the Fountain Pen Hospital in New York City. I hope this information is helpful.

Good luck!

 

/Robert

[Rick Propas]

I STRONGLY recommend against disassembling an M400 casually. They are NOT meant to be repeatedly taken apart and if you do so, before many times the filler will no longer fit properly into the barrel.

[1000km]

This is very helpful - thank you

 

Hello there! The following information may be what you require.

 

From the book Pen Repair, A Practical Repair Guide for Collectable Pens & Pencils by Jim Marshall & Laurence Oldfield:

 

"Knocking It Out"

 

"The nib has been removed so after soaking and warming the barrel top, ensure that the piston is fully retracted back to the top. Insert a wooden punch, which is as big a diameter as possible (old knitting needles are ideal) and holding the pen in one's hand, give the punch a sharp hit with a hammer. No tapping -- a good quick bash, otherwise you can damage the piston.

 

 

If the barrel was well-prepared, one or two strong hits will move the whole unit. The piston is easily replaced with a new or better one or the piston gasket can be exchanged. It is not vital, but gluing on the replaced gasket will reduce the possibility of it being pulled off in use.

 

 

Before fitting the whole unit with a new piston, the gasket should be treated with some silicone grease to allow a smooth movement in the barrel."

 

 

I highly recommend reading Pen Repair, A Practical Repair Guide for Collectable Pens & Pencils. It is available from the Fountain Pen Hospital in New York City. I hope this information is helpful.

Good luck!

 

/Robert

[Robert Alan]

I STRONGLY recommend against disassembling an M400 casually. They are NOT meant to be repeatedly taken apart and if you do so, before many times the filler will no longer fit properly into the barrel.

 

Thank you for adding this warning. Although I posted the information, I agree with Mr. Propas. This procedure should be avoided, unless absolutely necessary, since there is the real possibility of irreparably damaging one of these pens.

/Robert

 

Edited for typo.

Edited December 5, 2010 by Robert Alan

[wtlh]

One added WARNING:

 

The above instructions with knocking out the piston assembley using a wooden stick and hammer (also described by the penboard link) APPLIES ONLY TO THE **OLD** 400 MADE IN THE 50S OR EARLY M400 DESIGNS MADE IN THE 80S. These have friction fit piston assemblies.

 

The modern M400 piston assemblies are snap fit. There are slots cut into the barrel, in which small tabs on the piston snap in place. They are not meant to be taken out, but if one really have to, you must do it SLOWLY, try to extend the piston beyand limit and slowly push the tabs out of the slots. Doing this several times will worn the slot-tab interface and the piston can come out too easily, and you either need a new piston assembly (as fortunately it has softer plastic, so it will be more likely to be worn than the barrel slots) or glue it in place (not recommended). Knocking out the assembley with a hammer is going to rip the tabs off or worse crack the barrel, a sure way of taking the pen completely out of service.

 

You have been warned.

Edited December 6, 2010 by wtlh

[thoppen]

Thank you for your warnings. It is an old M400 (from the 1950s), but I think I will bring it to an official pen repair person.

 

Thanks again. Regards, Tim

[1000km]

A 1950s pen is a 400, not an M400

 

Thank you for your warnings. It is an old M400 (from the 1950s), but I think I will bring it to an official pen repair person.

 

Thanks again. Regards, Tim

[Kilrymont]

An old thread, but applicable to my question.

Ive become familiar with TWSBI piston fillers and their servicing, but this isn't about those. I've three sizes of Souveran  but servicing the piston and push/pull ass'y only looks straightforward on the M800, with its TWSBI type flats and spanner compatibility. Which latter I haven't attempted, all these pens are only weeks old. But I like to think ahead.

As many of you will know the smaller m400 and m600 sizes lack the brass coloured component with flats milled into the mech revealed when the ink knob is twisted several turns out.

I accept the above advice re. not stripping these assemblies out unless really needful, but I wondered if these are lubricated at the factory "for life" like many car differentials these days.

Saying that as I've had a couple of TWSBIs become too stiff for comfort in the operation of the piston pushrod. And used the spanner suppled to get the working parts relubed. Problem solved.

Do the M400 and M600 sizes normally live out their service life without this kind of strip down being needed?

If so I wonder why they built the M800 differently with real provision for servicing. Is it seen as a longer lasting pen than its smaller brethren? And therefore likely to need service access as the above?

[OCArt]

@KilrymontThe M200, 400, 600, et all have removable nibs that allow lubrication, when needed, from that end. Unless you are changing inks often and flushing the pen out very often you won't need to lubricate them more than one every five years or so.  Unlike TWSBI's they weren't designed to be played with but were designed to be a tool for writing. (end of curmudgeonly rant)

[Kilrymont]

7 hours ago, OCArt said:

@KilrymontThe M200, 400, 600, et all have removable nibs that allow lubrication, when needed, from that end. Unless you are changing inks often and flushing the pen out very often you won't need to lubricate them more than one every five years or so.  Unlike TWSBI's they weren't designed to be played with but were designed to be a tool for writing. (end of curmudgeonly rant)

 

On 12/4/2010 at 10:07 AM, thoppen said:

Hello fellow network members,

 

I am looking for an instruction on how to disasemble a M400. I have found the following link

 

http://www.penboard.de/penpoint/en/fillingsystems/PelikanPenRepairs.htm

 

but I was wondering if you know of any further information, or if you could give me any hints.

 

Thank you!

 

Regards, Tim

"Played with?" Why the "rant?"

Sir, your keyboard manners show considerable potential for improvement.

[A Smug Dill]

9 hours ago, Kilrymont said:

But I like to think ahead. …‹snip›…  a couple of TWSBIs become too stiff for comfort in the operation of the piston pushrod. And used the spanner suppled to get the working parts relubed. Problem solved.

Do the M400 and M600 sizes normally live out their service life without this kind of strip down being needed?

 

As an owner and active user of several hundred fountain pens, and among them a dozen modern Pelikan (M2xx, M4xx, M6xx, and M8xx) piston-fillers, I’d answer in the affirmative. Yes, the Pelikan Souverän M4xx and M6xx — as with the M8xx and (Classic, not Souverän) M2xx, the Aurora Ottantotto and Optima, the HongDian N1-S, the PenBBS 309, etc. — piston-fillers, as writing instruments in the hands of users, do not require that kind of disassembly by the user for continued regular operation or even (routine, preventative, or reactive) maintenance.

 

Never mind how you may prefer to manage or play with your pens, i.e. objects to which you have clear title and full ownership rights. I like to tinker with my pens, and even make a habit of fully disassemble converters (where it is relatively easy to do) for deep cleaning, then applying silicone grease to the piston plug and collar thread, upon reassembly; so I’m certainly not going to criticise anyone for doing so, or wanting to do so.

 

However, proper operation of the pens and parts in question neither requires nor needs that kind of handling; even the ‘need’ to remove the nib and feed from the gripping section (by unscrewing a threaded collar holding the nib and feed together, or otherwise), or removing every last trace of the previous fill of ink before switching to a different colour of ink, is arguably overkill for just writing with a fountain pen in the way it was designed and intended to work.

 

So, even though it may frustrate the user — me — to be unable to readily take a pen apart for switching nibs, or deep cleaning, or maintenance, I cannot criticise (the designer or manufacturer for) the implementation of a pen that does not make provision for the flexibility and serviceability. Those are not qualitative requirements that a buyer can reasonably expect to be fulfilled by all fountain pens, just to function and remain fit for purpose as writing instruments over the long term.

 

I have never seen any authoritative advice or official recommendation from Pelikan, Aurora, PenBBS, etc. for removing the piston component from the barrel in the name of maintenance by the user, irrespective of whether a tool exists (or is provided) to facilitate disassembly†, and whether a pen can be disassembled without a tool‡. Repair is a different issue; and proper use and maintenance of a fountain pen without manufacturing defects should not culminate in a need for repair in its normal service life (absent deliberate attempts to maximise the value of the aggregate of physical parts of the pen to the owner).

 

If you really ‘need’ to apply silicone grease to make the piston action smoother, you can unscrew the nib unit from a Pelikan M400 or M600 (or any aforementioned pen model of the other brands), and smear some silicone grease around the ink reservoir’s wall using a long, thin implement (preferably) with a non-scratching tip, then drive the piston forward into the greased part. That may not be how you want to apply grease, but it does the job and fulfils the ‘need’, even if it goes against your preferences (and experience with maintenance of other pen models), is not satisfactory psychologically, or raises concern about getting silicone grease onto where the next fill of ink would make contact. Once the piston action is sufficiently smooth for normal operation, you can then worry about cleaning the reservoir’s wall of remnants of silicone grease (using an implement such as a makeup applicator stick, or pressurised jets of water, etc. with or without detergent).

 

1 hour ago, Kilrymont said:

Sir, your keyboard manners show considerable potential for improvement.

 

Perhaps you should reconsider and recalibrate your expectations of your fellows in a discussion forum populated by a wide and diverse group of fountain pen hobbyists. It is folly to expect them to share your sensibilities or care about your preferences, when discussing the mechanics of how to do things, or ways of achieving specific outcomes. The community is not inherently here to offer service (to anyone in particular), or obliged to word their advice or remarks in such a way that nobody would feel their values and preferences are undermined, or cast as whimsical and/or unimportant in the big picture of ‘userhood’.

 

Expect, instead, that at least sometimes you’ll be treated as a geek by other geeks, whose primary commonality is a keen interest in fountain pens, and who come here to share information and exchange ideas, not pleasantries. Never mind that English is the accepted language of communication in this forum; your idea of what constitutes good manners should not be assumed to be the cultural norm in an Internet forum. If you feel their wording or framing is making you look bad in the eyes of other readers, or trivialising what you want, that’s your problem and not theirs.
 

They may indeed have room to improve — in your view, or someone else’s, or even their own — but they’re not obliged to do so, in the course of actively adding value to the forum community.

 

 

† The piston mechanism on the Aurora Ottantotto and Optima has notches on opposite sides of its rim, such that a tool keyed to those can be used to unscrew it from the barrel. No doubt Aurora’s authorised service centres and personnel have been issued with said tool; but that does not mean Aurora advices or even wants users to attempt piston component removal themselves. More than likely, the manufacturer would see such an action by the user as warranty-voiding misuse! HongDian piston-fillers have similarly removable piston mechanisms, and the manufacturer even includes the disassembly tool in the official retail packages for certain models, as well as produced an instruction video (which I’ve seen, as it was sent to me by the official HongDian store on AliExpress) on how to remove the piston mechanism using the tool. However, the key issue there is that some pistons are not seated properly when assembled in the factory, thus causing the reservoir’s maximum capacity to be compromised; the instruction video exists to show users how to reseat the piston in the piece that does the driving.

 

‡ The Lamy 2000 and PenBBS 309 can be fully disassembled by hand without a special tool. PenBBS even sells packs of 易損耗(“easily damaged or consumed”) spare parts that include replacement pistons (plugs attached to stems). Nevertheless, I have never seen any official user guide or instruction/ demonstration video provided by Lamy or PenBBS on disassembling the pens for maintenance or repair.

 

[DvdRiet]

4 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

As an owner and active user of several hundred fountain pens, and among them a dozen modern Pelikan (M2xx, M4xx, M6xx, and M8xx) piston-fillers, I’d answer in the affirmative. Yes, the Pelikan Souverän M4xx and M6xx — as with the M8xx and (Classic, not Souverän) M2xx, the Aurora Ottantotto and Optima, the HongDian N1-S, the PenBBS 309, etc. — piston-fillers, as writing instruments in the hands of users, do not require that kind of disassembly by the user for continued regular operation or even (routine, preventative, or reactive) maintenance.

 

Never mind how you may prefer to manage or play with your pens, i.e. objects to which you have clear title and full ownership rights. I like to tinker with my pens, and even make a habit of fully disassemble converters (where it is relatively easy to do) for deep cleaning, then applying silicone grease to the piston plug and collar thread, upon reassembly; so I’m certainly not going to criticise anyone for doing so, or wanting to do so.

 

However, proper operation of the pens and parts in question neither requires nor needs that kind of handling; even the ‘need’ to remove the nib and feed from the gripping section (by unscrewing a threaded collar holding the nib and feed together, or otherwise), or removing every last trace of the previous fill of ink before switching to a different colour of ink, is arguably overkill for just writing with a fountain pen in the way it was designed and intended to work.

 

So, even though it may frustrate the user — me — to be unable to readily take a pen apart for switching nibs, or deep cleaning, or maintenance, I cannot criticise (the designer or manufacturer for) the implementation of a pen that does not make provision for the flexibility and serviceability. Those are not qualitative requirements that a buyer can reasonably expect to be fulfilled by all fountain pens, just to function and remain fit for purpose as writing instruments over the long term.

 

I have never seen any authoritative advice or official recommendation from Pelikan, Aurora, PenBBS, etc. for removing the piston component from the barrel in the name of maintenance by the user, irrespective of whether a tool exists (or is provided) to facilitate disassembly†, and whether a pen can be disassembled without a tool‡. Repair is a different issue; and proper use and maintenance of a fountain pen without manufacturing defects should not culminate in a need for repair in its normal service life (absent deliberate attempts to maximise the value of the aggregate of physical parts of the pen to the owner).

 

If you really ‘need’ to apply silicone grease to make the piston action smoother, you can unscrew the nib unit from a Pelikan M400 or M600 (or any aforementioned pen model of the other brands), and smear some silicone grease around the ink reservoir’s wall using a long, thin implement (preferably) with a non-scratching tip, then drive the piston forward into the greased part. That may not be how you want to apply grease, but it does the job and fulfils the ‘need’, even if it goes against your preferences (and experience with maintenance of other pen models), is not satisfactory psychologically, or raises concern about getting silicone grease onto where the next fill of ink would make contact. Once the piston action is sufficiently smooth for normal operation, you can then worry about cleaning the reservoir’s wall of remnants of silicone grease (using an implement such as a makeup applicator stick, or pressurised jets of water, etc. with or without detergent).

 

 

Perhaps you should reconsider and recalibrate your expectations of your fellows in a discussion forum populated by a wide and diverse group of fountain pen hobbyists. It is folly to expect them to share your sensibilities or care about your preferences, when discussing the mechanics of how to do things, or ways of achieving specific outcomes. The community is not inherently here to offer service (to anyone in particular), or obliged to word their advice or remarks in such a way that nobody would feel their values and preferences are undermined, or cast as whimsical and/or unimportant in the big picture of ‘userhood’.

 

Expect, instead, that at least sometimes you’ll be treated as a geek by other geeks, whose primary commonality is a keen interest in fountain pens, and who come here to share information and exchange ideas, not pleasantries. Never mind that English is the accepted language of communication in this forum; your idea of what constitutes good manners should not be assumed to be the cultural norm in an Internet forum. If you feel their wording or framing is making you look bad in the eyes of other readers, or trivialising what you want, that’s your problem and not theirs.
 

They may indeed have room to improve — in your view, or someone else’s, or even their own — but they’re not obliged to do so, in the course of actively adding value to the forum community.

 

 

† The piston mechanism on the Aurora Ottantotto and Optima has notches on opposite sides of its rim, such that a tool keyed to those can be used to unscrew it from the barrel. No doubt Aurora’s authorised service centres and personnel have been issued with said tool; but that does not mean Aurora advices or even wants users to attempt piston component removal themselves. More than likely, the manufacturer would see such an action by the user as warranty-voiding misuse! HongDian piston-fillers have similarly removable piston mechanisms, and the manufacturer even includes the disassembly tool in the official retail packages for certain models, as well as produced an instruction video (which I’ve seen, as it was sent to me by the official HongDian store on AliExpress) on how to remove the piston mechanism using the tool. However, the key issue there is that some pistons are not seated properly when assembled in the factory, thus causing the reservoir’s maximum capacity to be compromised; the instruction video exists to show users how to reseat the piston in the piece that does the driving.

 

‡ The Lamy 2000 and PenBBS 309 can be fully disassembled by hand without a special tool. PenBBS even sells packs of 易損耗(“easily damaged or consumed”) spare parts that include replacement pistons (plugs attached to stems). Nevertheless, I have never seen any official user guide or instruction/ demonstration video provided by Lamy or PenBBS on disassembling the pens for maintenance or repair.

 

 

And that, my friends, is an ANSWER! 😊 

 

(I also think it's easy for the users of such pens to forget / not realize sometimes, that manufacturers supplying tools for disassembly and - dare I say - tinkering with their pens is the exception rather than the rule.)

[Bo Bo Olson]

My Pelikan piston pens work fine....so have no need to remove invisible ink from in back of the piston.

As of yet my '40-50-65 Pelikan pens have not needed piston repair like a few of my other old MB or Osmia pens.

 

IMO if one has a demonstrator there is a bit of magic in there that allows molecule seepage from in front of the seal to behind it.....so invisible ink micro-droplets are visible. 

Big Deal.....So What.

It does not effect the pens writing.

 

If one was toilet trained too early that matters.

 

Twsbi and Ahabs are designed to be taken apart at whim.....I don't think there are any other piston pens like that.

 

The 1000 and 800 have brass screw out pistons, so if you have an urge to 'deep' clean your piston pen often stay with them or the Twisbi, Ahab pens.

 

The 200-400-600 any MB's, Osmia's, Kaweco's or Soennecken and other German vintage pens are not designed to be yanked apart on whim...................especially for invisible ink.

 

I think a piston pen should only be yanked apart for repair. The plastic is not designed to be yanked apart....so will sooner than later become too broken to work and will be sold.

 

This has been said ever since I came on the com some 13 years ago. By others that knew more than me.

 

I have had old '40-'50's MB & Osmia re-corked by a professional. I could do it my self, I have everything to do it.....but feared ruining a delicate pen when I yanked it apart.

 

Many are well to do and fearless.............back when I bought some of my piston pens I did think $50 a lot of money....much less $100. So to me they are valuable. One don't risk breaking valuable pens for a mental problem of invisible ink.

 

Besides which I want properly done cork and it is possible from a professional like Francis, and not a plastic gasket. Marshal and Oldfield in their 'Repair Book' say boiled in oil and beeswax cork is the smoothest of all gaskets.

 

Yes, I've seen many, many pictures of amateurs who yank apart their pens for reasons I don't understand. To put in a new gasket is the only reason (or if the piston has gotten a bit off so the pen don't close quite as tight as when the pen was new.....yes. It is necessary.

 

Those pens I see ever so often being taken apapt, do belong to others....who risk ruining a pen for no reason but 'deep cleaning' and fear invisible ink. ...... the problem is sooner or later those yank apart every Sunday pens will be sold to the innocent, after they no longer quite work due to being yanked apart on whim.

Sold with out even the warning, 'deep cleaned often.'

 

IMO if one wants to buy a deep clean pen, buy a cartridge pen.