Dip Pen Nib Suggestion For Learning English Roundhand

[penpals]

Hi, any suggestions on a good learning nib for english roundhand? Something that is pretty available, I looked at some stickys at the top of the forum, but could not find the suggested nibs, and those I believe were intended for engrosers script anyway.

 

 

Thanks.

[TheSherminator]

I don't know a whole lot about English Rounhand script, or rather, I don't know how similar it is to Copperplate, or if it IS in many ways what is often called "Copperplate".

 

I don't know for sure, but if it is something that many use broad nibs for, there are actually some nibs called "english roundhand pens", made by some brand. And Mitchell nibs are good broad nibs.

 

However, I myself would believe it is a pointed pen scripts, which is something I myself do. For copperplate, which is what I do, there are many nibs available. You will want something quite flexible.

 

I use the Gillott 303, which many people don't like, because our modern hands are very heavy, and because the nib is VERY flexible and delicate. But, if you take the time to lighten your hand and learn to use it, it is very much worth the time and effort. You will want to get quite a few, at like $0.80 (you can get quantity discounts at Paper Ink and Arts, I believe), as you may go through a few fast. But they are cheap, and like I said, it is totally worth it. I won't use any other nib for Spencerian, Ornamental, or Copperplate.

 

There is also the Gillott 404, which is considered more of a beginners nib. It is much less delicate and less flexible, but it still works. I personally don't like it myself, but I took the time to get used to the 303, which is extremely flexible. There is also the Leonardt Principle, which is supposedly a remake of the vintage Gillott Principality (a failed attempt in my own opinion); it's quite flexible and a little less delicate, but a lot more expensive than others, since they think it is somehow like the super rare Principality. There are also some smaller flexible nibs that are a little more delicate; a lot of these nibs are in many beginner kits that you can find at Paper & Ink Arts and John Neal Bookseller, and if you go to the websites, they list the nibs included in the Copperplate Beginners Kit, and you can read them off and see what they are.

 

Another nib I use on occasion (rarely), is the Hiro #40 or 41 (a big blue one), which is a little flexible, but doesn't hold very much ink. It is good for writing when you don't want to use something very delicate. The Brause Rose Nib is supposedly pretty good, but when I got one to try out, it came bent.

 

Like I said, there are many nibs, try a few and see which you like the most. My favorite is the 303, but yours could be something else. I suggest getting at least 2-3 of each when trying them out, as sometimes they can come bent or malfunctioning or something.

 

Good luck! Don't give up on it.

[caliken]

I don't know a whole lot about English Rounhand script, or rather, I don't know how similar it is to Copperplate, or if it IS in many ways what is often called "Copperplate".

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/Roundhandwriting562.jpg

 

The above example is handwritten and, as such, it lacks the polish and finesse of carefully written formal Copperplate. However, it is a useful handwriting style albeit a slower one than italic for example. It was written with a Gillott 404 nib at an x-height of 3mm which is as it appears on the screen. It took around 10 minutes to write.

 

Ken

[caliken]

Hi, any suggestions on a good learning nib for english roundhand? Something that is pretty available

If you look here you'll probably find the information you need.

 

Ken

[Chevalier]

I don't like the modern Gillot 303, you should try to get your hands on some vintage 303s.

 

I think Hunt 101 Imperial could be the best beginner's nib, it gives nice hairlines and takes a heavier hand without giving up.

Shoving a 303 once into the paper might finish the tines already off.

 

Pens like the Gilt-Point Dome Point, 1208 EF Tenax Series, Kugelzack 53 F, Kugelzack 53 EF worked well too. It's not like writing with a normal pointed pen, but it might be useful the first 200 Pages (you can use one of those nibs for possibly 200-500 pages). They just don't give a real hairline (ok, they sometimes do, on the right paper with the right ink), because of the bend tip, but that's not a problem, as long as you use a pointed nib from time to time, to develop a light touch. I still use them for some line/oval exercises.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Chevalier

[Randal6393]

Emptied due to error in posting. See below.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Randal6393

[Randal6393]

Hi, penpals,

 

Well, as you can see, we are fond of our flex nibs. Standard is pretty much the Gillott 303. The Gillott 404 is very much similar and a nice nib, too. Some of the other nibs that are often cited as being good are the Brause Rose, Leonardt Principal, Hiro 40 "Blue Pumpkin", and the Hunt 1XX series. And, as Chevalier says, the vintage nibs are often of better quality than modern ones. Vintage nibs can be bought for not much more than modern nibs.

 

Inks recommended for Copperplate are Higgins Eternal, McCaffery Penman series, and Old World Iron Gall. The Higgins Eternal reproduces well and gives fair hairlines. The others give excellent hairlines but are trickier to work with. And may not reproduce well.

 

Paper for Copperplate is pretty much whatever smooth paper you have that takes ink well. Practice pads ruled for Copperplate are available and, if you hunt around, you will find printable guidelines here on FPN.

 

IAMPETH is the site most often quoted for lessons and videos on Copperplate. Often referred to as Engraver's Script or Engrosser's Script. I found the videos by Dr. Joseph Vitolo to be especially useful.

 

Supplies -- nibs, paper, and ink -- may be obtained from John Neal Books in the USA or Scribblers in England.

 

Best of luck to you in mastering this useful, interesting, and (occasionally) frustrating hand.

[singer]

I was at iampeth and was looking at the pictures of the script. It looks like it is done with a flexible pointed nib

 

But there are RoundHand nibs by Leonardt and Mitchell, and they are all squared. See here. Odd isn't it...

 

.

Edited February 14, 2011 by singer

[Randal6393]

Mostly comparing apples to oranges. American concepts of roundhand are a style of cursive writing, derived from English Roundhand, that is done with a pointed-pen and duplicates the strokes of an engraver's burin. AKA as Engraver's Script or Engrosser's Script or Copperplate. However, earlier concepts for Roundhand, from both England and France, are of a roundish style of Humanist hand, done with a broad-edged (italic) nib. So, apples to oranges. And that's why respondents were asking for more information -- Round Hand isn't very descriptive, without more data.

 

Enjoy,

 

I was at iampeth and was looking at the pictures of the script. It looks like it is done with a flexible pointed nib

 

But there are RoundHand nibs by Leonardt and Mitchell, and they are all squared. See here. Odd isn't it...

 

.

[singer]

I see now. Thanks for clearing that up, I will be taking a look at both