Fraud Resistant?

[pharmacist]

Actually cheques are so old-fashioned. For daily payments the overall method for payments from bank account to bank account is by direct debit, credit transfers, electronic payments using payment terminals (card + pin). The amount of paper to produce the cheques saved this way is considerable. Why sticking with cheques ? How actually do you check the cheque is covered or not, besides some cheque guarantee cards up to certain amount per cheque ? Electronic payment is done immediately on your accout and much safer then drawing cheques, which ultimately could not be cashed because of insufficient credit.

 

Back to topic: I made my own iron gall ink, optimized for fountain pens and I use almost concentrated hydrochloric acid (1 %) in my ink to stabilize the ink, but sofar in my very cheap fountain pens (papermate, Pelikan school FP's), sofar no clogging and no corrosion to be seen and these FP's have only stainless steel nibs, not even gold nibs like my more expensive Mont Blanc FP's. And I use these pens now for a few months in a refilled cartridge to test the stability and writing qualities. Even bleach treatment of the writing done with this ink, the reading is not impaired up to a point it becomes non legible. There is still a brownish line (of ferrous oxide) visible to the eye.

 

I am looking for test canditates who are willing to have try of my home brewed iron gall ink (German Urkundentinte), living in the EU area (just to limit shipment costs and problems with customs), who will only pay for shipment and packaging. The amount will be 30 ml per bottle and can be used in a wet writing fountain pen of any brand, provided the pen writes wet and uses a converter to fill the ink. I do however take no responsibily when something goes wrong with your pen, but it would be nice experiment for those interested to obtain a cheap and very good iron gall ink (German Urkundentinte) which writes a greyish blue and soon darkens into a nice black. If you like to experiment and you are a dare devil, contact me via a PM. This is not a commercial advertisment, but a call for testers, who want to try out the old fashioned iron gall ink used by granddad and not the modern versions produced by Lamy and MB, which only contain gallic acid, making the ink less permanent when produced with both gallic and tannic acid (both of them are present in my own home brewed iron gall ink). The amount of gallic acid in modern iron gall inks is also considerably less compared to the vintage fountain pen iron gall inks.

[cubic archon]

I mostly only use cheques to pay tradesmen. If somebody comes round to fix the washing machine, I'm unlikely to have cash on me to pay them, and they don't tend to carry credit card machines, so I will write a cheque. I can't remember having used one for other purposes in the last few years though. It always used to be 95% property-related (rents, deposits etc) and these days agents and landlords tend not to accept cheques until they clear anyway, so internet banking is quicker.

 

Common practice does vary at lot by country though.

[Bluecloud]

I'll have to go check my old diaries written in Quink Blue in the late 70ies - early 80ies. Last time I checked they were very much readable, but that was about 10 years ago...

[tfwall]

It has been a long time since crooks practiced the "check washing" and such that some ink makers promise to block with their "fraud resistant" inks.

 

- Fewer Americans write personal checks now, although the paper check has not disappeared as fast as we predicted 20 years ago. Checks are, however, rare enough that my European colleagues had no idea why we, in the US market, wanted to prepare for Check21, also known as "Check Processing for the 21st Century".

 

- Check fraud happens when people scan government checks and cash them at check-cashing stores. That's the big business in "check fraud", and "fraud resistant ink" will not stop someone from stealing a social security check out of a mailbox. For details, see the recent speech by Jim Freis, director of the US Treasury Department's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network at http://www.fincen.go.../20101002.html.

 

- No crook bothers to alter a signature on a contract, because each party signs many copies of a contract, and both sides usually digitize the results and shred the originals. Nobody wants to store that much paper.

 

- I suspect that "check washing" and such are imaginary threats used to sell more ink.

 

[Note: if you worry about accidentally spilling a cup of coffee, then, of course, take precautions.]

 

 

 

Concur on all points.

 

 

[Wilson Hines]

Actually cheques are so old-fashioned. For daily payments the overall method for payments from bank account to bank account is by direct debit, credit transfers, electronic payments using payment terminals (card + pin). The amount of paper to produce the cheques saved this way is considerable. Why sticking with cheques ? How actually do you check the cheque is covered or not, besides some cheque guarantee cards up to certain amount per cheque ? Electronic payment is done immediately on your accout and much safer then drawing cheques, which ultimately could not be cashed because of insufficient credit.

 

 

Mercy, I feel like I need to excuse myself for using checks. I keep a check book in my car or my book bag, but I probably only write two to three a month. Sometimes I skip a month or two. It all just depends on what is going on. U.S banks don't do a whole lot of transfers between people. I don't know of a method for that other than paypal and such. I am sure there may be a few banks that do that in the U.S, but then you have to be dealing with somebody that is also dealing with a bank that works that way.

 

Suffice it to say, it's just easy to walk in to the shoe repair service and pick up my newly re-soled shoes with either cash (which I never bring with me because of debit cards) or checks. Like the guy said a few posts up, if you have your washing machine fixed, then the ones around me in rural North Carolina, USA would rarely say to you, "You know I take credit and debit cards?" It happens from time to time and every now and then I meet someone like that, but that is going to be extremely rare around here, unless I am dealing with a franchise service, which I can't afford anyway. My uncle's car repair shop still only takes checks and cash.

 

Two to three a month folks. That's it. I still live in the United States - rural United States.

[voop]

Actually cheques are so old-fashioned. For daily payments the overall method for payments from bank account to bank account is by direct debit, credit transfers, electronic payments using payment terminals (card + pin). The amount of paper to produce the cheques saved this way is considerable. Why sticking with cheques ? How actually do you check the cheque is covered or not, besides some cheque guarantee cards up to certain amount per cheque ? Electronic payment is done immediately on your accout and much safer then drawing cheques, which ultimately could not be cashed because of insufficient credit.

 

 

Mercy, I feel like I need to excuse myself for using checks. I keep a check book in my car or my book bag, but I probably only write two to three a month. Sometimes I skip a month or two. It all just depends on what is going on. U.S banks don't do a whole lot of transfers between people. I don't know of a method for that other than paypal and such. I am sure there may be a few banks that do that in the U.S, but then you have to be dealing with somebody that is also dealing with a bank that works that way.

 

Suffice it to say, it's just easy to walk in to the shoe repair service and pick up my newly re-soled shoes with either cash (which I never bring with me because of debit cards) or checks. Like the guy said a few posts up, if you have your washing machine fixed, then the ones around me in rural North Carolina, USA would rarely say to you, "You know I take credit and debit cards?" It happens from time to time and every now and then I meet someone like that, but that is going to be extremely rare around here, unless I am dealing with a franchise service, which I can't afford anyway. My uncle's car repair shop still only takes checks and cash.

 

Two to three a month folks. That's it. I still live in the United States - rural United States.

 

Wow. Someone should send the US an invitation to join the 21th century.

 

I haven't written a cheque since 1998. Actually, I have written less than a dozen cheques in the past 30 or so years.

 

Doesn't eliminate the requirement of fraud-resistant, durable inks, though. But not for cheques....

[Possum Hill]

Wow. Someone should send the US an invitation to join the 21th century.

 

Yup -- all those folks using archaic writing instruments to fill out their archaic financial instruments.

[Trebster]

I'll have to go check my old diaries written in Quink Blue in the late 70ies - early 80ies. Last time I checked they were very much readable, but that was about 10 years ago...

 

/agree Everything I wrote in the 70s with Quink is still perfectly legible. (In those days, Quink was about the only thing I could buy.) Might add that I never had a check tampered with, or had a mail delivery failure due to non-waterproof ink.

[bluemagister]

Noodler's fraud resistance isn't a claim, it's a fact.

 

Check washing is not possible if using Noodler's or gel inks.

Neither all Noodler's nor all gel inks are equally fraud-resistant.

 

 

I should have clarifed. Noodler's bulletproof inks and pigmented gel inks are fraud-resistant and everything else resistant, too.

[Fuddlestack]

....

I keep a check book in my car

...

 

The law here views leaving a cheque-book in your car as negligence, and if it is stolen you are liable for any fraudulent cheques drawn on your account.

[mstone]

Ironically, people are are concerned with fraud often make sure that they sign with an fraud resistant ink, when logically, having everything on the check except the signature be permanent makes more sense. It would make the one thing that could be removed be the thing most likely to make the check useless.

Not having a valid signature won't slow things down at all, as the check probably won't be processed by a human or checked against a signature on file anyway. You can contest it, but will still end up having to deal with a lot of aggravation. Making the payment information indelible will certainly help.

[mstone]

Actually cheques are so old-fashioned. For daily payments the overall method for payments from bank account to bank account is by direct debit, credit transfers, electronic payments using payment terminals (card + pin). The amount of paper to produce the cheques saved this way is considerable. Why sticking with cheques ?

 

As far as I can tell, check processing in the US was always more convenient/available than in Europe, so it had a much bigger presence. For person to person transfers and small businesses in rural areas it's much more convenient and cheaper than a card reader. (The availability of credit card processing is changing, with the technology available to do it with a cell phone even--if you're in an area with cell phone coverage--but for a small business it is a significant overhead to accept payment by card if you don't have to. In urban areas, OTOH, checks are nearly dead.)

[mstone]

Wow. Someone should send the US an invitation to join the 21th century.

 

There's a strong cultural aversion in this country to moving to entirely electronic payments, as one of the primary motivators is increased government taxation/monitoring/control. In some cultures that's not seen as a problems, in others it is. Very 18th century, I know.

[voop]

Wow. Someone should send the US an invitation to join the 21th century.

 

Yup -- all those folks using archaic writing instruments to fill out their archaic financial instruments.

 

Touché

[Northwoods]

Wow. Someone should send the US an invitation to join the 21th century.

 

I haven't written a cheque since 1998. Actually, I have written less than a dozen cheques in the past 30 or so years.

 

Doesn't eliminate the requirement of fraud-resistant, durable inks, though. But not for cheques....

 

You might as well say to eliminate cash. Some businesses, especially independent contractors in the service industry like babysitters, cleaning, lawn maintenance, etc, prefer checks, as they don't wish to deal with credit card surcharges for an already low margin business. So, yes, there is still a use for checks, and will be for some time to come.

 

 

 

[bassopotamus]

Wow. Someone should send the US an invitation to join the 21th century.

 

There's a strong cultural aversion in this country to moving to entirely electronic payments, as one of the primary motivators is increased government taxation/monitoring/control. In some cultures that's not seen as a problems, in others it is. Very 18th century, I know.

 

Which is largely misplaced, as a check is basically an paper request for an electronic transaction at this point. Cash under the mattress or barter is about all that doesn't leave a trail.

[Randal6393]

Actually, I use mostly Noodler inks, bulletproof or eternal, for most of my writing. Not because of the waterproof/forger-resistant properties. I like the characteristics of the ink and the low cost per use.

 

Noodler is one of the least expensive inks available and has some of the smoothest, best-flowing properties of any ink I have ever used. My particular favorite is Heart of Darkness. In addition, I love Navajo Turquoise (one of the standard, non-waterproof Noodler inks.)

 

Whatever ink I choose to use, I use because the ink works well for me. In addition to Noodler inks, Montblanc (especially the Toffee Brown) inks have good flow characteristics. As do Private Reserve, Waterman, and Skrip. Aurora is a lovely ink to work with and the Pilot Iroshizuki inks are a lot of fun to use. Sailor and Pilot make excellent products as well. In fact, I can't think of a major, modern ink manufacturer that doesn't have plenty of persons singing their praises (as well as a few detractors every now and then). But I can't afford every ink offered for sale and had to limit myself to a tried and true standard ink. For me, that is Noodler ink. Thanks, Nathan.

 

Enjoy,

[Truppi327]

Actually, I use mostly Noodler inks, bulletproof or eternal, for most of my writing. Not because of the waterproof/forger-resistant properties. I like the characteristics of the ink and the low cost per use. Noodler is one of the least expensive inks available and has some of the smoothest, best-flowing properties of any ink I have ever used. My particular favorite is Heart of Darkness. In addition, I love Navajo Turquoise (one of the standard, non-waterproof Noodler inks.)Whatever ink I choose to use, I use because the ink works well for me. In addition to Noodler inks, Montblanc (especially the Toffee Brown) inks have good flow characteristics. As do Private Reserve, Waterman, and Skrip. Aurora is a lovely ink to work with and the Pilot Iroshizuki inks are a lot of fun to use. Sailor and Pilot make excellent products as well. In fact, I can't think of a major, modern ink manufacturer that doesn't have plenty of persons singing their praises (as well as a few detractors every now and then). But I can't afford every ink offered for sale and had to limit myself to a tried and true standard ink. For me, that is Noodler ink. Thanks, Nathan.Enjoy,

 

+1. I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Wilson Hines]

....

I keep a check book in my car

...

 

The law here views leaving a cheque-book in your car as negligence, and if it is stolen you are liable for any fraudulent cheques drawn on your account.

 

I would seriously doubt it is considered negligence in North Carolina, or in any state of the Union. I will ask a lawyer friend for kicks and giggles on Wednesday. When it comes to theft, home invasion, auto related mischief and such, the law in the United States is very much in favor of the victim.

[pharmacist]

Why is everybody talking about credit cards as an alternative to cheques ? There are debit cards too and person to person payments can be achieved by credit transfers too (give a call to your bank or use E-banking to transfer the amount to the person who you want to get the money): if there is a bank, then there should be an employee that could do this for you, but E-banking is possible I hope for the smallest town in the US, just have a connection on the internet. I know credit cards are expensive because of the fee the companies charge, but debit cards (like Maestro) are accepted world wide, no additional fees and actually cheaper for the bank then manually cashing cheques and the infrastructure to keep the astronomical amount of cheques for a few years somewhere in a warehouse. Payment by cheque still holds the possibility for tax officers to have a look at you and actually you have signed the paper, so I would pay cash if this is a reason !!!