The Death Grip

[wednesday_mac]

I used a death grip until I took a calligraphy course. The first lesson - absolute first - was how to hold the nib holder between the thumb and forefinger and only rest the holder on your second finger. With that technique, I left the death grip (and fingers cramping) behind within about two days of short practice. It transferred over to "normal, every-day writing without a pause.

 

I found a thread here on FPN that shows in illustrations what I learned and what others have recommended. Apparently it's called the "tripod grip", and the link is above from another member, and under that name.

Edited July 26, 2010 by wednesday_mac

[jniforat]

yes, this usually happens when i'm taking one of those "in-class essay" exams and using a f to xf nib. when i use a m to b nib, however, i don't have this problem as much...but now i have no more b nibs

 

need to get on that soon

[Martius]

I write with an almost zero-pressure grip and I started out that way (always hated ballpoints). I'm actually one of the extreme writers whose pen must start under its own weight or I have startup issues. I also use a low angle and grip relatively high on the barrel. I figure that as long as I'm using fountain pens, I am going to be as relaxed about it as possible. I didn't spend a ton of money buying dozens of pens so I could tire out my hand with ballpoint pressure! (Not that you need dozens of pens, of course - I spend food money on pens!)

[jimhughes]

Ruby:

Having big time fun with the Japanese Pen you sent. This is known as the Sumatran Death Grip if you can believe an Brit NCOIC, with many years field experience. He caught me writing AAR's one night and quickly called me up short. Unfortunately, I've tried a gazillion fixes all to no avail. 40 years later I still do this when ever I'm in a hurry, trying to finish my notes to move on to the next person waiting, finish and go home, taking notes of a rapid speaker. The achiness is always there after a day of this. The problem is summed up in one word, haste. You're in a hurry, for what ever reason and the grip gives you more control to press on at a high rate of speed. In any case I solved my problem by retiring and writing in less hurried conditions. I hope one of the other posters suggestions works for you. I tried pretty much them all, to no avail. Good luck, Jim

[RMN]

I'm getting cramps just reading about some of the grips some folks use. Blame cheapo ballpoints, having to really press hard to get some ink out.

 

I learned writing with a dip pen. A brightly colored preformed thing. It had ridges and recesses to just guide your fingers in the ideal position. Hand resting on the pink, the pen resting on the crooked middlefinger, the thumb along the pen to stop it rolling to the left and then the indexfinger lightly on top along the pen. Ideally when writing someone should be able to lift the pen from your hand easily without disturbing the position of the fingers. The writing is done by using the arm muscles, not the fingers. The weight of the pen should be all the pressure you need.

This is the ideal way to write cursive. No strain, no pain, you gain.

 

D.ick

[penicillin]

Had the same problem, and the legendary lady at Fahrney's (sorry, I have forgotten her name) told me I needed a larger barrel pen (and the sold me a LeMan 100). Problem gone.

Good luck.

M

[mstone]

Bo bo's link is http://www.fountainp...96#entry1616696 if the one in his post didn't work for you.

 

The link works fine. I'm just having a hard time understanding what he's describing without seeing a picture.

It sounds like a confusing new name for the tripod grip. If there's a difference from the tripod grip I'm not seeing it, and if it's the same thing it's burning a lot of brain cells trying to understand an already-familiar concept.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I'm getting cramps just reading about some of the grips some folks use. Blame cheapo ballpoints, having to really press hard to get some ink out.

 

I learned writing with a dip pen. A brightly colored preformed thing. It had ridges and recesses to just guide your fingers in the ideal position. Hand resting on the pink, the pen resting on the crooked middlefinger, the thumb along the pen to stop it rolling to the left and then the indexfinger lightly on top along the pen. Ideally when writing someone should be able to lift the pen from your hand easily without disturbing the position of the fingers. The writing is done by using the arm muscles, not the fingers. The weight of the pen should be all the pressure you need.

This is the ideal way to write cursive. No strain, no pain, you gain.

 

D.ick

 

Yes, Forefinger Up!

[Bo Bo Olson]

Bo bo's link is http://www.fountainp...96#entry1616696 if the one in his post didn't work for you.

 

The link works fine. I'm just having a hard time understanding what he's describing without seeing a picture.

It sounds like a confusing new name for the tripod grip. If there's a difference from the tripod grip I'm not seeing it, and if it's the same thing it's burning a lot of brain cells trying to understand an already-familiar concept.

 

Could well be, in I've never heard of the tripod grip.

The Way of the Forefinger Up, as I have explained it, is so simple, so easy, so light, and your style of scribble is not ended. (rats!)

[Lloyd]

In the usual tripod grip, the pen's tail is not supported in the webbing between thumb and forefinger; the the, forefinger and middle fingers fully support the pen. In Bobo's grip, the pen is primarily supported on two points: the webbing and the first joint of the middle finger. If the pen is adequately wet, the thumb and the forefinger are barely necessary except to prevent the pen from rolling or lifting off of the middle finger.

[Bisquitlips]

Just remember that whatever you pen will be read by others.

 

That is usually enough for me to pay attention to my penmanship.

[mstone]

In the usual tripod grip, the pen's tail is not supported in the webbing between thumb and forefinger; the the, forefinger and middle fingers fully support the pen.

Here's two links: http://www.otility.com/articles/pencil-grasp-patterns.aspx http://www.drawyourworld.com/grip.html

 

The first describes the tripod grip as resting the pen forward of the index finger's knuckle, the second as behind. I consider both on a continuum, and within the definition of "tripod grip".

 

There's book called "Pencil grip : a descriptive model and four empirical studies" that has a nice vocabulary for different grips. Short of a common lexicon or pictures, I don't see this discussion converging.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Tripod still looks like pinch to me, something needed to shove drag a pencil or ball point across a piece of paper rather than guide a slick nib tip in a tiny puddle of ink.

 

Thanks for showing it, but I gave that up last year for Forefinger Up, and thumb back.

[D.C. in PA]

I've had the good fortune to spend a bit of time with two handwriting consultants at separate pen shows. While I admit that I have not adopted what was presented by either completely, I've learned that position and posture (I know, it's a pain to hear this, but it's true) matter - really.

Relaxed posture and a writing position that doesn't force cramping help. Then there's the other issue - it's called practice; posititive practice, meaning that the practice uses the techinques to be integrated appropriately. When you have practiced properly you tend to revert to this good location - which allows easy pen grip and writing flow. It takes a bit of time and effort, but if you have ever whatched someone doing Spencerian script you have seen the ease and flow of this approach. You don't have to as committed as this, but it is instructive.

At the least, relax. We have been programmed to push the wax out of ballpoints. Fountain pens do not require so much effort. Amazing, huh? The old tech is less demanding than the newer.

[southpaw]

Get a travel size tube of toothpaste. Take the cap off. Stand over your wife's favorite rug. Grip it like a pen. Start writing in the air. Problem solved either way, as you'll either learn a light grip or . . .

[ImNotSam]

I've always held a pen (pencil, crayon, whatever) resting in the web of my thumb, forefinger up and thumb touching the knuckle of my forefinger.

 

Imagine my horror when I discovered (oh, maybe a year ago, when I joined this forum ) all the illustrations of the "proper" (pinch, tripod) way to hold a pen!

 

How come nobody told me this before???

 

I have since tried to master the pinch grip, I have since tried to master the tripod grip, but ... It's easier actually for me to write with my non-dominant hand than it is to write with my dominant hand and the "correct" grip.

 

You can't teach this old dog new tricks, I guess.

 

I can write fast and legibly with no pressure on the paper and very little pressure in my hand. I do use shoulder and arm motion, plus some finger motion. I don't think I've ever had a hand cramp.

 

Some day I'll figure out how to take a picture of my little paw gripping a pen. Or not.

 

 

 

 

 

Yep..that's the place....all that trouble....sorry about that. I just did not want to bore everyone so much.

 

I find I like the fountain pen in the web of my thumb. I do not need it high unless I'm using a calligraphy pen.

 

I have two pens that would allow me to write like a ball point but I don't. I have an old MB 234 1/2 with a bent up tip, KOB 15 degree (K-kugle=ball) and a Geha 790 with a true kugle or ball tip. Both are semi-flex.

About the only pen I still pinch is the triangle sectioned P-75.

 

I like my pen in the web of my thumb....I post all my pens, except three super heavy metal pens,(Townsend, Persona, Fake Dupont) and I can post them if I wiggle my hand up the barrel of the pen to balance them too.

 

I'll see if I can make some pictures I just got a new camera, so I can sell my wife's demi-cups or Mocca cups on Ebay.

[mstone]

Tripod still looks like pinch to me, something needed to shove drag a pencil or ball point across a piece of paper rather than guide a slick nib tip in a tiny puddle of ink.

Then you're doing it wrong. :-) You should not be putting pressure on the pen, just holding it. People were teaching this at least centuries before ball points were invented...

[Bo Bo Olson]

True perhaps...I've not really gotten into the antique schools. I did do some light reading.

 

How ever, I think it rather limiting to only have one way to hold a fountain pen.

 

 

Must there be only one way to do something?

 

I tried the forefinger up method, a year ago after reading and looking at some pictures Caliken posted.

 

I now use that method, without thinking now @95% of the time.

 

Perhaps, pinching works best for those who do not post, and forefinger up works best for those who post.

I post.

 

Un-posted my pen ends up just under my first knuckle,and or the start of the web of my thumb,and I find my self with out thought having more a pinch grip. I have to think about getting the pen into the start of the web of my thumb.

 

So, try the forefinger up, while posting. Perhaps I've been preaching apples to a bunch of orange squeezers. :embarrassed_smile:

 

Perhaps that is the main difference, of why some can't get the other method; they write un-posted, and I post.

 

Posting a pen will not be so back heavy then I think.

 

Try this method posted, if you will.

[mstone]

I tried the forefinger up method, a year ago after reading and looking at some pictures Caliken posted.

The only post I can find that seems like it might be the one you're talking about is https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/65981-pen-hold-suggestion/

which just shows two ways of doing the tripod grip. If you're talking about something else, without pictures it's just not clear.

[caliken]

Some good advice from this forum (I can't remember who to credit, specifically) that works for me is to extend and straighten your fingers while writing. Same grip, but when your fingers are nearly straight, it isn't possible to create the crushing death grip pressure that curled fingers can. It helps with learning to write with a light hand, as well.

 

Ryan.

I think that this may have been me, as I advocated this in an earlier post on the Penmanship forum. These before and after shots may explain the technique.

 

caliken

 

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/penholds.jpg