The Death Grip

[caliken]

See that your grip is the classic "tripod grip", then work on relaxing. You'll find yourself writing comfortably for longer periods.

This is the tripod grip which is generally considered to be best for flexibilty and eliminating hand fatigue.

 

If you pick up a Lamy Safari or AllStar pen, you'll find that your hand falls naturally into this position. These pens are specifically shaped to accommodate this pen grip.

 

caliken

 

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/Righthand2.jpg

 

This example of the tripod grip is from an excellent video by tipstricks.

 

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/Tipstricks2.jpg

Edited July 30, 2010 by caliken

[caliken]

I tried the forefinger up method, a year ago after reading and looking at some pictures Caliken posted.

I now use that method, without thinking now @95% of the time.

Thank you Bo Bo Olson...you've made my day!

 

There's a good reason why this hand tripod grip has been advocated as best for so long. It's easier to produce good lettering this way as the hand is relaxed and controlled writing is possible with no hand fatigue.

 

I left school with a most perculiar hand grip for writing and re-trained myself in my teens from an illustration in a book. It took a surprisingly short time to adjust, and I'm very glad that I did.

 

Give it a try...it really is easy!

 

caliken

[Bo Bo Olson]

Hi, long time no "see". I've been using your name in vain.

For much of the time as "a good poster" until I dug out a few notes...

You are at fault....yep....glad you were and are. I use what I've been calling forefinger up, ever since you showed it to me.

At the start it was some times, to now I use it for just about every pen but my American P-75.

 

Thanks.

 

 

As far as I can see, the second way to grasp a fountain pen is not the Tripod pinch...it's a completely different grip than the first picture pinch tripod. It's as completely different as a baseball grip and an overlapping grip is in golf. I know a few who use a baseball grip.

 

It appears having read the post above I'm off with my terminology. Still going to leave my definition of the terminology.

 

It's not quite the pictures I remember. There were also some of you standing with hand half curled relaxed normal.

 

Number two picture is very close to what I do, but my thumb is a tad higher.

Where the nail leaves meat of the thumb, is even by me, with the first finger joint.

 

Un-posted, I am very close to that position in picture two.

 

How ever, when I post, the barrel drops down into the start of web of my thumb with a light pen. Un-posted if a heavier metal pen, about the same place under the knuckle; start of the web.

 

A lighter posted pen lays at the start/in of the web of my thumb, a heavier or back weighted pen like a MB 234 1/2 snuggles down in the middle of the web of my thumb.

 

A real Heavy pen like a Cross Townsend or Lamy Persona needs me to climb it a tad to get a balance when posting.

This "forefinger up" grip allows me to do that and still control the pen. If one has had the practice with lighter metal pens, I can adjust.

I am very stubborn sometimes, in posting my very heavy pens....but the caps click on so nice and loud; even though it would be more sensible to use the pen un-posted, I'll post them because I can.

 

Caliken, thanks for showing up with the pictures.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Bo Bo Olson

[caliken]

Caliken, thanks for showing up with the pictures.

Have a look at this picture which I've just posted of tipstricks using the tripod grip. This is as close as you'll get to the perfect position for this 'classic' pen hold.

 

caliken

 

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/Tipstricks2.jpg

[Bo Bo Olson]

I had the last one, and Mastered Hen Scratch....with the second grip, I've Mastered Turkey Scratch, and can really strut for hours instead of having to fly into the hen house and perch, due to cramped finger only writing.

 

I know I'm supposed to do more with my shoulder.

 

Looks like I'm going to have to lurk over on Penmanship for a while.

[karinh]

 

I think that this may have been me, as I advocated this in an earlier post on the Penmanship forum. These before and after shots may explain the technique.

 

caliken

 

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/penholds.jpg

 

I hold my pens (pencils, crayons, paintbrushes etc) like picture 2. I can't remember holding them any other way but I suppose I might have at some point in the dim past. Maybe I was just taught to hold a pencil like that as a child by my fountain pen using Dad? Possibly. Or at school by teachers who had grown up using fountain pens back in the day. I did learn calligraphy a long time ago but I already used the tripod grip then so I assume I learned it at school.

 

I've tried out the death grip to see what it feels like and I can't even write like that. It's really awkward and painful and I lack control. Is that what people who use it were taught in school? Not critisising, just wondering. My nieces (19 and 11) were taught the tripod hold at school in NZ but maybe it's a cultural thing? Anyone have any ideas on that?

[dcwaites]

I guess I have to thank Miss Edith Hat, who taught me to write cursive with a dip pen (one of those evil, wooden things, where the metal ferrule is the same diameter as the wooden shaft, about 1/4") in grade 3.

 

I just checked, and I automatically hold pens as in caliken's second picture, and always have, as far as I can remember.

 

Decades of handwriting (high school, university, etc) have produced a bump on my middle finger, with a little 'dent' of a pen rest just in front of it. I only notice it when I use a pen.

 

Rarely have I ever had writing cramps, and I think they were associated with exams (lots of intense writing, coupled with stress...).

[holgalee]

Wow, I'm glad this thread took on a life of it's own! I was torn between the penmanship forum and this, and decided that probably more people visit this forum.

 

As the OP, I should have added that I grip my pens with four fingers. I'm not sure if we were taught the proper grip in school, if so, it was never drummed into us, or at least the classes I attended. I'm a left-handed underwriter and tilt the paper to the right all the way up to 90 degrees if there are space constraints. The four finger grip feels the most secure to me; perhaps I grew up in an era of stick ballpoints and had to grip them hard so they wouldn't skitter away.

 

I've been trying a three-fingered grip the past few days, and was flummoxed by the relative position of the fingers. The thinner pens, in particular, seemed tricky to hold without the fingertips (or nails!) of the thumb and index finger pressing into each other. But when I lengthened the index finger, that stabilised the thinner pen and remove the problem of the fingertips meeting. But I wasn't sure whether I was doing it right, so the photos posted by Caliken helped a lot.

 

So instead of grip 1, I'll use grip 2. I'm thinking of them as the 'o' grip and the 'u' grip respectively, so that it's easier for me to remember.

 

Thank you all for your comments and advice!

[yachtsilverswan]

Girth is Good.

 

Girth allows your fingers to relax in the grip without crowding.

 

Think Montblanc 149.

[holgalee]

Apart from practise, practise, practise, my only problem now is what to do with the non-fps that feel scratchy when holding the pen at a lower angle.

[troglokev]

Bin them.

[Bo Bo Olson]

The pen by me, rests a 1/4 or 1/3 of an inch lower on the middle finger too, not being pressed into the root of the nail where it meets the side flesh; as before and rests is the key word. I am not pressing it into the flesh like before.

 

As one can see, there can be variations of exactly where the thumb rests, mine rests a tad higher, Caliken's a tad lower.

 

One's forefinger can be 100% on top or a tad off to the side.

 

The main thing is the pen rests in one's grasp and is guided, it is not pinch griped and wrestled.

 

I learned the death grip as a kid.

I can remember some teacher, perhaps Jr. HS, perhaps two that said something about the fountain pen should be in web of the thumb.

If they mentioned a different way to grasp the pen, it went over my head and with out the forefinger up tripod grip, it is very uncomfortable trying to keep the fountain pen in the web of one's thumb while pinching.

So I kept, pinching; preparing my self for a life time of ball points.

 

Writing was something one did, it was not fun. (Well there had to be something here, or I'd not started gathering fountain pens, while still Pinching.)((Seeking the Holy Grail..a fountain pen that wrote good; with out having to re-learn writing.))

Now it is fun, ... well, more fun.

 

and I got The Magic Pen, perhaps even Two. The dammed thing will even write good pinched.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Bo Bo Olson

[Russ]

I used a death grip too, until I learned a better way. I practiced leaning the pen back and loosening up. It was quite difficult and took months to get used to, but eventually I was happy I had learned. Now I write with my pens nearer to 45-degrees. The farther back I lean, the easier it becomes to release the grip. And I can write longer with more comfort. Practice makes perfect...

[holgalee]

Is it normal to experience some finger fatigue or cramps when using the tripod (3 finger) grip? I think I may not be used to it yet?

[nxn96]

I've tried out the death grip to see what it feels like and I can't even write like that. It's really awkward and painful and I lack control. Is that what people who use it were taught in school? Not critisising, just wondering. My nieces (19 and 11) were taught the tripod hold at school in NZ but maybe it's a cultural thing? Anyone have any ideas on that?

 

I think the decline of teaching a "relaxed" grip that makes cursive writing so much easier for the long term is a function of two evolutions:

1. The decline of teaching handwriting in schools, and the increase in teaching "keyboarding skills" in the early grades. I think both of my children (now in college) were being encouraged to use word processing (almost said "type"; shows you how old I am...) for their reports by the 4th or 5th grade. As, there was no premium put on teaching handwriting skills.

2. The introduction of the "print/write" style of cursive that most everyone under the age of 40 seems to have been taught in school. It's beauty is in it's simplicity to learn, and tends to be legible for most users except the most untrained hands. It has no soul, but that's my personal opinion.

[Pentech42]

See that your grip is the classic "tripod grip", then work on relaxing. You'll find yourself writing comfortably for longer periods.

This is the tripod grip which is generally considered to be best for flexibilty and eliminating hand fatigue.

 

If you pick up a Lamy Safari or AllStar pen, you'll find that your hand falls naturally into this position. These pens are specifically shaped to accommodate this pen grip.

 

caliken

 

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/Righthand2.jpg

 

This example of the tripod grip is from an excellent video by tipstricks.

 

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/Tipstricks2.jpg

 

 

Good to know that I actually use a good grip! never called it a tripod but it does make sense. I've also built up a callous on my middle finger above the first joint that the pen slides right above.

[RMN]

I guess I have to thank Miss Edith Hat, who taught me to write cursive with a dip pen (one of those evil, wooden things, where the metal ferrule is the same diameter as the wooden shaft, about 1/4") in grade 3.

 

I just checked, and I automatically hold pens as in caliken's second picture, and always have, as far as I can remember.

 

Decades of handwriting (high school, university, etc) have produced a bump on my middle finger, with a little 'dent' of a pen rest just in front of it. I only notice it when I use a pen.

 

Rarely have I ever had writing cramps, and I think they were associated with exams (lots of intense writing, coupled with stress...).

 

Ha, I've got the same bump.....

 

D.ick

[MeiLin]

I love you people. I have been looking for solutions to this for years. (I just wish I could keep up! You guys are CHATTY!)

[mstone]

Is it normal to experience some finger fatigue or cramps when using the tripod (3 finger) grip? I think I may not be used to it yet?

no, you're probably gripping too hard

[caliken]

Is it normal to experience some finger fatigue or cramps when using the tripod (3 finger) grip? I think I may not be used to it yet?

no, you're probably gripping too hard

One of the great advantages of writing with a dip or fountain pen, is that no pressure is required to produce lines on a page.

If you hold any decent fountain pen at the very end between finger and thumb, you should be able to 'draw' a fine line across the page with only the weight of the pen.

The tripod grip helps achieve this, and if you can imagine that you're writing with the weight of the nib alone, you'll be well on the way to avoiding finger fatigue or cramps forever!

I've just posted a topic 'The Tripod (or Triangular) pen hold' on the Penmanship forum showing three views of the hold.

 

I hope that they are of some use.

 

caliken