Parker Date Codes Discussion

[Number99]

3 hours ago, lobster said:

believe it or not, but I found a 45 Flighter with a date code of L. (with the trailing dot).

I believe it. Here is a 45 Flighter with the date code "U." engraved too.

I was confused, not realizing that the discussion was venturing into that realm. I just noticed that the date code table was not only added, but clearly corrected.

 

 

[Number99]

On 11/5/2023 at 7:12 AM, Number99 said:

45 Flighter with the date code "U." engraved

 

I will add relevant images to my previous comments. Can you see the "U." (U dot)? Sorry, this is the limit of my equipment. The pen is a Parker 45 flighter ballpoint pen with a black domed jewel.

 

Edited February 21, 2025 by Number99

[Mercian]

4 hours ago, Number99 said:

 

I will add relevant images to my previous comments. Can you see the "U." (U dot)? Sorry, this is the limit of my equipment. The pen is a Parker 45 flighter ballpoint pen with a black domed jewel.

 

 

That is right for a 45 that was made in 2001 Q4. @lobster's 45 with a 'L.' code would have been made in 2003 Q4.
Parker made the 45 Flighter at Newhaven until 2008.

See e.g. this link: https://parker45pens.com/parker-45-flighter-time-line/

 

Slàinte,
M.

[Number99]

23 minutes ago, Mercian said:

 

That is right for a 45 that was made in 2001 Q4. @lobster's 45 with a 'L.' code would have been made in 2003 Q4.
Parker made the 45 Flighter at Newhaven until 2008.

See e.g. this link: https://parker45pens.com/parker-45-flighter-time-line/

 

Slàinte,
M.

You are unaware of something important.

😁

This thread is discussing date codes.

[Mercian]

10 minutes ago, Number99 said:

You are unaware of something important.

😁

This thread is discussing date codes.

 

Yes, I know that. And was discussing them. See ↓

 

34 minutes ago, Mercian said:

That is right for a 45 that was made in 2001 Q4. @lobster's 45 with a 'L.' code would have been made in 2003 Q4.

Parker made the 45 Flighter at Newhaven until 2008.

See e.g. this link: https://parker45pens.com/parker-45-flighter-time-line/

I posted in this thread to point out that single-letter date codes followed by a '.' correspond to pens that were manufactured in Q4 of years in the 2000s.

And that the Parker 45 was produced at Newhaven until 2008. So, lobster should not be surprised at finding a 45 with a 'L.' date code, as that would correspond to 2003 Q4 - a few years before the end of production of the 45 at Newhaven.

Edited February 21, 2025 by Mercian
Edited for FFEs.

[Number99]

12 minutes ago, Mercian said:

I posted in this thread to point out that single-letter date codes followed by a '.' correspond to pens that were manufactured in Q4 of years in the 2000s.

Amazing!

You haven't provided a source for your knowledge, but what is it?

[Mercian]

41 minutes ago, Number99 said:

Amazing!

You haven't provided a source for your knowledge, but what is it?

 

It's a bit of knowledge (learned here) about how the date code stamps were changed.

 

---

Edit to add this bit:

I want to add that I have three Parker pens that were produced in Q4 of different years.

My 2007 Sonnet has the date code 'P.'

My 2011 Urban has the date code 'U'

My 2013 Urban has the date code 'L'

To me, this suggests that the '.' is meant to be included on Q4 pens produced in decades when a '.' is included in all the other date codes.

---

 

The date code has one component that is the letter ('Q', or 'U', or 'A', etc), and the other component is the vertical lines that indicate the quarter - 'III', 'II', 'I', or ' ' (i.e. no line, for Q4).

The stamp for the letter would remain in use all year long.
The stamp for the quarter code would initially have three raised bars on it (to stamp the three lines for Q1). At the end of each quarter a raised bar was ground-off the stamp. So, at the end of Q1 a bar would be ground off, leaving two raised bars; which would then stamp two vertical lines to indicate production in Q2.

At the end of Q2 another would be ground off, etc.

 

It makes sense to have a raised pip (to stamp the '.') as a feature of the metal stamp that creates the letter for the year code, as one then doesn't run any risk of the pip that creates the dot getting ground-off at the end of the wrong quarter.

 

Even if one were to instead have four separate stamps for the quarter codes (one for each quarter), it still makes sense to have the dot created by the stamp that marks the letter code, because one never needs to worry about having to pay an employee to change the letter-code stamp.

 

If one reads about Parker's various date-coding methods on https://parkerpens.net/codekey.html one can see the remark

 

Quote

In 2000 the code again underwent a small change when the quarter switched sides with the year and there was a dot between them "Q.III"
There are however inconsistencies, such as missing dots and quarter codes appearing on the wrong side of the year code

 

Such inconsistencies are easily explainable as instances of employees having accidentally ground-off the pips that create the '.' mark, or of putting the stamps back into the code-stamping machine in the incorrect order.

Of course, if the pip to create the '.' IS on the vertical lines/quarter-code stamp, then the presence of the '.' on some Q4 pens but not others is explainable as an instance of an employee having forgotten to grind-off the pip (or replace the stamp with a blank).

Anyone who ever thinks that he has invented a foolproof system has underestimated the abilities of fools!

 

On a more-general note about how Parker cycles-through its date-codes, I must admit that I have been surprised to NOT see Parker alternate its date-coding system so that it alternates each decade in the manner
Q.III - III.Q - QIII - IIIQ - Q.III - etc

 

Doing it in that way would make each cycle of date codes cover forty years, rather than 'only' twenty.

Edited February 21, 2025 by Mercian
Edit to add remarks about my own Q4 Parkers

[Number99]

I asked you to present the source of your information.

Then I ask what the truth is.

So which is the true date code, a date code with a dot after a single alphabetic letter like "L." and "U." or a date code without a dot?

 

P.S.

Rationale for the question.

If it is assumed that the employee forgot to ground-off the pips, then all of the last four people who replied to this thread are victims of a work error, and it all sounds pretty strange to me.

 

1 hour ago, Mercian said:

My 2007 Sonnet has the date code 'P.'

My 2011 Urban has the date code 'U'

My 2013 Urban has the date code 'L'

 

What is the country of manufacture of your Urban?

 

Edited February 21, 2025 by Number99

[Mercian]

29 minutes ago, Number99 said:

I asked you to present the source of your information.

Then I ask what the truth is.

 

Re-read my post.
I DID present the source of my information.

 

AND I provided the date codes on the Parker pens that I own that were made in the Q4 of their respective years.

 

29 minutes ago, Number99 said:

So which is the true date code, a date code with a dot after a single alphabetic letter like "L." and "U." or a date code without a dot?

 

BOTH are true!

To be clear, the date codes for pens produced in Q4 of any year in a decades in which Parker includes the '.' in its date-codes (e.g. the 2000s, and presumably the 2020s) should include the '.'

Like the 'P.' on my Sonnet, and the 'U.' on your 45, and the 'L.' on the 45 seen by lobster.

 

And in the decades in which Parker DOESN'T include the '.' in its date codes (e.g. the 1990s and the 2010s), pens produced in Q4 shouldn't have a '.' in their date code.
Like the 'U' and 'L' on two of my Urbans.

 

29 minutes ago, Number99 said:

What is the country of manufacture of your Urban?

 

The short answer to that question is: I don't know!

 

I have five Urbans, all of which are examples of the first shape/style of the Urban, and all from the 2010s. They use the same feeds and nibs as the Parker Vector and Jotter models of that era - but NONE of them has a country of manufacture marked on them!
 

The box of the one that I bought brand-new did have a barcode on it that corresponded to the pen having been made in France - but then the Law that defines what companies can claim as the 'country of manufacturer' are written so that the company can specify that as wherever the most-expensive part of the process occurred.
So the pens' parts could have been made in  'low-wage' countries such as China, or Vietnam, or Indonesia, and with those component parts then being shipped over to France (a 'high-wage' country) for Parker employees to assemble the pens in France prior to sale.

I know that Parker used to ship Parker 75 components that were made in the USA to Australia, and employ people in Australia to assemble those parts into full pens, as a way of getting around high Import Duties. Those Parker 75s are stamped 'MADE IN AUSTRALIA'.

 

Then again, I also own three Parkers (two Frontiers and a Vector) that were made in India by Luxor (under license from Parker). THOSE pens are stamped with an 'I-' before their date codes, so Parker is at least happy to acknowledge/mark that those pens were made in India.

As such, I would be slightly surprised if Parker had 'concealed' the origin of those models of the Urban - but I don't know that they didn't.

[Number99]

1 hour ago, Mercian said:

Re-read my post.
I DID present the source of my information.

 

As an explanation, it's fun, but without proof I can't responsibly quote your story even if I wanted to…

 

1 hour ago, Mercian said:

BOTH are true!

 

That would be your own denial of the story that the employee forgot to ground-off the pips.

 

1 hour ago, Mercian said:

The short answer to that question is: I don't know!

 

I believe the discussion on date codes in this thread was region specific.

Actually, my Urban ballpoint pen also has a date code of "Q" only, but I am aware that that is made in China, so I deleted the question about that in my previous reply.

 

P.S.

My Urban ballpoint pen was purchased new on Amazon in 2021.

Edited February 21, 2025 by Number99

[Number99]

@Mercian. I cannot conclude anything from these few examples, but my only impression is that my discussion with you was a good time to get an idea of which direction to look in.

As for the new criteria for these date codes, I will leave that to the knowledgeable experts.

The new interest in the mystery of Urban is one achievement for me.

 

Thank you.

 

[Liuna]

Greetings. I acquired a Parker Classic flighter ballpoint pen, which says Made in,USA and has date code IP (possibly 3rd quarter year of 1997).

 

According to this site, that kind of coding came after the 90s:

https://parkerpens.net/codekey.html

 

What I'm unsure about is about until when were Classics made in the US? Could they have been still made while the UK ones' production has already begun, like an overlap?

 

At an other thread (I used to have a date codeless England Classic which I have lost) someone said this:

 

"The first Classic bp in a 'flighter model' was, if I am correct,  introduced in 1971. The Parker Classic bp was discontinued in 1994. What probably is important: it is stamped with "made in England" and not with "made in the UK". That means that your pen has been made before 1990. Date coding began at Parker UK in 1980. That means that your Classic bp is probably made between 1971 and 1980."

 

So then is it 1987 or 1997?

 

Greetings. I acquired a Parker (75) Classic flighter ballpoint pen, which says Made in,USA and has date code IP (possibly 3rd quarter year of 1997).

 

According to this site, that kind of coding came after the 90s:

https://parkerpens.net/codekey.html

 

What I'm unsure about is about until when were Classics made in the US? Could they have been still made while the UK ones' production has already begun, like an overlap?

 

 

Could it have been made in 1997?

 

According to

 

https://parkerpens.net/classic.html

 

"In 1994 only the Matte black and the Desk pen was offered as fountain pens.

The Classic line was not featured in the 1995 product catalogue, nor the 1998.

 

According to Jim Mahmoulian the Classic surfaced again as a ballpoint and pencils in the 2001 catalogue. In 2003 it was gone again. This could however be discreapancies between the US and European markets."

 

 

Thank you in advance. 

 

Editing is due to that I may have mixed 75 (discontinued in 1994) and Classic up.