M800 Back Heavy

[Silvermink]

I'm intrigued by this piston-modification idea...

[gyrosan]

I sent the piston assembly to fountainbel and I'll post my findings when I reassemble my pen.

 

Best,

gyrosan

[Bo Bo Olson]

First that pen was so designed to back weight. And it is good so...

 

Go to...in "Hello, Recommend Me A Pen"" this is covered better.

 

 

If this link works and it's the first time I tried. It didn't...makie Learnie....

may be next time....eventually.

 

3/4ths down the page starts my normal rant...of an alternative way to hold a fountain pen.

 

 

 

 

It will explain the Modern Up to Date Forefinger Up method of grasping a pen, vs your Old Fashioned, awkward Pinch method.

 

The modern way took me a whole 2 minutes to learn and allows one to balance a pen, with out being so limited as when using the Obsolete Pinch grip.

 

The pen is supposed to be slightly back heavy so it will rest properly in the web of your thumb.

Edited July 25, 2010 by Bo Bo Olson

[gyrosan]

Dear FPN colleagues,

 

I received the modified piston part and installed it in my green M800. My speed in writing has risen about 40 % and the fatigue from writing has gone down by more than 50 %.

The M800 reminds me of a light Sheaffer Flattop from 30' now. I didn't pay much for modification and I would do it again.

 

Thank you, fountainbel.

 

Kind regards,

gyrosan

[hari317]

That's great news, thanks for sharing with us the outcome.

 

-Hari

[Silvermink]

Dear FPN colleagues,

 

I received the modified piston part and installed it in my green M800. My speed in writing has risen about 40 % and the fatigue from writing has gone down by more than 50 %.

The M800 reminds me of a light Sheaffer Flattop from 30' now. I didn't pay much for modification and I would do it again.

 

Thank you, fountainbel.

 

Nice. Mind if I ask what the cost was? I'm seriously tempted now.

 

The M10xx uses the same piston assembly, doesn't it? Can anyone confirm?

[hari317]

The M10xx uses the same piston assembly, doesn't it? Can anyone confirm?

 

Yes, same assembly in the m1000 and m800.

[gyrosan]

The cost was 50 €. Considering the value of the pen, 50 € is relatively affordable, IMHO.

 

Kind regards,

gyrosan

[Painterspal]

I also find the balance of the M800 unsatisfactory. However, I noticed that the Demonstrator version has a small amount of the brass cut out to reveal the inner mechanism and, sure enough, it is lighter (19g instead of 21g on my kitchen scales). It's a small difference but is just enough to be noticeable in use. I'd never previously thought about it but I always tend to reach for my demo in preference to the standard model and now I know why!

 

I'm no engineer, but I wondered whether the more cut outs could be made to the brass component; another couple of grams shaved off the weight would make the balance about perfect for me and would presumably retain enough strength. Then all they need to do is make the gripping area slightly longer (think Aurora Optima) and you'd have my perfect workhorse fountain pen.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Painterspal

[fountainbel]

Hi all,

FYI, just received the message from the Pelikan legal dept. ( over Penexchange Germany)

The Pelikan guarantee is void as soon as one changes anything on the pen.

A pity, but not unlogical.

This implies that I will not alter any piston housings anymore (except on my own pens!)

Francis

[hari317]

Hi all,

FYI, just received the message from the Pelikan legal dept. ( over Penexchange Germany)

The Pelikan guarantee is void as soon as one changes anything on the pen.

A pity, but not unlogical.

This implies that I will not alter any piston housings anymore (except on my own pens!)

Francis

 

That is very unfortunate Francis.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Go over to the forefinger up method of gripping a pen instead of the pinch method.

 

Dear Bo Bo Olson,

 

I think that the nib would write more like a bold one instead of medium one in this way (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

Regards,

gyrosan

 

 

Not that I noticed. I never thought about that, so I don't think so.

Fountain pens are designed to be used from behind the fore knuckle to the web of the thumb.

Just checked a 400 Pelikan ('90-96) pinched, fore finger up, posted and non posted, no difference in nib width.

The only back weighted plastic pen I have is a MB 234 1/2 Deluxe (52-55) and it is a KOB, but did not notice it writing wider.

 

In the "Death Grip" thread, Caliken, a calligrapher, uses a forefinger up tripod grip, just under the fore knuckle. my variation (me a Chicken scratcher) is just a tad different, in my thumb is say a 1/4 of an inch further up the barrel, and the pen lays well in the web of my thumb.

 

My modification I developed off Caliken's original post about a year ago.

If you ever played golf, a massive move of your hand/fingers of 1/8-1/4th of an inch makes for huge differences.

 

In that my Cross Townsend and Lamy Persona click so nice when posted, I am stubborn enough to post them too.

Those are the only pens I have where I am comfortable not posting. I have other metal pens that are better balanced.

 

Having developed confidence; in the forefinger up method, I can wiggle up the pen a bit and find a balance point even posted that allows me to write, with no deterioration, of my chicken scratch.

 

Fore finger up, removes all the pressure of the Obsolete Pinch method on threads. Threads are no longer an irritant, but a light slip guard.

 

I have no problems with forefinger up mastering thin pens too, like a Reform 1745.

 

 

It will take you all of 2 minutes to master Calikin's forefinger up tripod pen grasp.

Give that five minutes then move your thumb up the pen a tad until where the thumb nail finally leaves the meat of the thumb is even with the finger crease of your first joint.

I post...so that's best for me, because I do post.

 

 

I post....if all else fails, write posted for 15 minutes, then non posted, suddenly it will not be so heavy.

 

Hell, do something to you...weird, try my method, posted, so the weight of the pen rests in the web of your thumb.

 

In golf, one continues to use the wrong grip, because it feels comfortable, when a bit of time spent with a better grip will pay off soon...it becomes comfortable very shortly.

 

 

 

I think you will have to go to one of the thicker Italian pens. Perhaps some one can give you a good recommendation.

Edited August 13, 2010 by Bo Bo Olson

[fountainbel]

Go over to the forefinger up method of gripping a pen instead of the pinch method.

 

Dear Bo Bo Olson,

 

I think that the nib would write more like a bold one instead of medium one in this way (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

Regards,

gyrosan

 

 

Not that I noticed. I never thought about that, so I don't think so.

Fountain pens are designed to be used from behind the fore knuckle to the web of the thumb.

Just checked a 400 Pelikan ('90-96) pinched, fore finger up, posted and non posted, no difference in nib width.

The only back weighted plastic pen I have is a MB 234 1/2 Deluxe (52-55) and it is a KOB, but did not notice it writing wider.

 

In the "Death Grip" thread, Caliken, a calligrapher, uses a forefinger up tripod grip, just under the fore knuckle. my variation (me a Chicken scratcher) is just a tad different, in my thumb is say a 1/4 of an inch further up the barrel, and the pen lays well in the web of my thumb.

 

My modification I developed off Caliken's original post about a year ago.

If you ever played golf, a massive move of your hand/fingers of 1/8-1/4th of an inch makes for huge differences.

 

In that my Cross Townsend and Lamy Persona click so nice when posted, I am stubborn enough to post them too.

Those are the only pens I have where I am comfortable not posting. I have other metal pens that are better balanced.

 

Having developed confidence; in the forefinger up method, I can wiggle up the pen a bit and find a balance point even posted that allows me to write, with no deterioration, of my chicken scratch.

 

Fore finger up, removes all the pressure of the Obsolete Pinch method on threads. Threads are no longer an irritant, but a light slip guard.

 

I have no problems with forefinger up mastering thin pens too, like a Reform 1745.

 

 

It will take you all of 2 minutes to master Calikin's forefinger up tripod pen grasp.

Give that five minutes then move your thumb up the pen a tad until where the thumb nail finally leaves the meat of the thumb is even with the finger crease of your first joint.

I post...so that's best for me, because I do post.

 

 

I post....if all else fails, write posted for 15 minutes, then non posted, suddenly it will not be so heavy.

 

Hell, do something to you...weird, try my method, posted, so the weight of the pen rests in the web of your thumb.

 

In golf, one continues to use the wrong grip, because it feels comfortable, when a bit of time spent with a better grip will pay off soon...it becomes comfortable very shortly.

 

 

 

I think you will have to go to one of the thicker Italian pens. Perhaps some one can give you a good recommendation.

 

HI Bo Bo Olson,

FYI, The original posting is also posted on "Penexchage". (Pelikan forum)

Likewise pro's & con's there and also very enlightening discusions !

Francis

[hari317]

FYI, The original posting is also posted on "Penexchage". (Pelikan forum)

Likewise pro's & con's there and also very enlightening discusions !

Francis

 

Found it! here is the link in case anyone else is interested too. Axel put in an interesting arguement.

 

Best

Hari

[Felix1]

...the Demonstrator version has a small amount of the brass cut out to reveal the inner mechanism and, sure enough, it is lighter (19g instead of 21g on my kitchen scales). It's a small difference but is just enough to be noticeable in use.

 

Thanks for that clarification...I've certainly been able to feel the difference between my Demonstrator and a standard M800 (and verified it on postal scales) but just figured it was due to a lighter barrel. Now I know why the Demonstrator "feels" better...it's less top heavy.

[Bo Bo Olson]

That translation program was a riot.

But it beats :bonk:

 

The next time I'm in town I have to try out the 800 and 1000, along with the 146-149. It's not far from my war chocolate chip cookie connexion. Subway's.

 

Learning that fore finger up takes a whole 2 minutes...and I post so the web of my thumb takes the "excess" weight.

 

 

You can lead a horse to water, but most of the time they don't drown. :hmm1: oh..

[fabrimedeiros]

Both my M800 and M1000 are well balanced, IMHO. I like them the way they are. But if you don't think that way, it's nice to reconstruct that. The "polymer"- Peek Piston Filler is nice, but I prefer mine in brass constrution.

Edited August 17, 2010 by fabrimedeiros

[pajaro]

I would love to have this sort of modification done to my M800. It has a sublime B nib from John Mottishaw but is sadly underused because it's just too heavy for me.

 

I just acquired an M805. Handling it felt pretty nice. If you people think the M800 is back-heavy, try a recent Montblanc 146/LeGrand. I have a 146 that Montblanc recently serviced and replaced the piston assembly, and that is back heavy. The M805's back heaviness is, by comparison, unobtrusive. I think I will actually be able to use the M805.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Go over to the forefinger up method of gripping a pen instead of the pinch method.

 

Dear Bo Bo Olson,

 

I think that the nib would write more like a bold one instead of medium one in this way (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

Regards,

gyrosan

 

I got to try out someone else's pre 1990, 800. It is a big, heavy pen. . Posted, I took it a tad further up the barrel like a Cross Townsend or a Lamy Persona. It wrote still like a medium.

 

It is large enough to use un-posted.

Normally I'd post the Empire State building. I will have to spend a bit of time with it. Not long because on Monday it goes to the owner. I could see it as an un-posted pen for many. I could not see a 605 as an un-posted pen, though.

I was just checking the pen out, not doing any real writing. That comes in the morning.

 

I can see I was ignorant of it. I'd not expected it to be so big.

 

It is a wet writer. After that Noodlers black was flushed, I used Waterman South Sea Blue. Tomorrow I'll try MB Toffee and Pelikan Brown. I want to see how it shades with MB Toffee the most.

 

I was surprised how much bigger and heavier it was than my 605. A 1/3 of an inch in length more and a larger barrel it is an impressive pen. For my some what limited experience, a big pen.

 

I have to try out the 1000, because at that cost, unless a certain LE, is only in the 800, I could only afford one of them second hand.

 

I have heard the nib of the 1000 is better. I thought the nib of the 800 pre-1990 to be a good nib.

 

That nib is springy. That is the first springy nib I've tried. It is close to semi-flex, but not quite. It is a very good nib.

I have a stiff semi-flex that I may down grade to springy.

Tomorrow, when I have the 800 back together, I will check that out.

 

I understand the pre-'90's 800 nib was/is better than the newer nib. Does any one have one of those and a 1000? It would be good to know if the 1000 is as good, or better. Rather than as good as the pre-'90 and better than the modern 800.

 

It needed a good soaking.

Some one left Noodlers's black get old in it. Well over a year and it was also a lot in the cap. I was still getting ink out of the top of the cap, with a short soak and lots of ear syringe.

I have a lot of experience getting old ink in old pens, and really thank the fact, that super saturated ink was not often used in the old days. Love that Pelikan Blue.

 

The ink came out clumpy (lots of little specks and clumps) after I unscrewed the nib and flushed it out with an ear syringe. It took some five minutes with the ear syringe to clear the nib and section. With an ear syringe that is a long time.

 

Noodler's is high maintenance ink. I don't need it. Living in Europe I have many other choices, at the same price give or take.

 

Well perhaps I speak too soon, I don't know how high maintenance the new Pelikan inks are.