Best Archival Quality Ink

[bluemagister]

Noodler's line of bulletproof inks are pH balanced so they won't eat the paper like iron gall inks will. In addition, they use a cellulose reactive dye that chemically reacts with paper to become permanent. This new compound is chemically stable and so it will last as long as the paper will. If you use 25% or 100% cotton rag paper and Noodler's Bulletproof Black, it will still be OK 500 years from now, I think.

[redshifteffect]

Hi all, very new around here, trying to learn so I can put together a very durable long lasting heirloom journal so I'm researching all the components. From what I've been able to glean so far it sounds like there is a trade off here. No matter the paper quality you still have to also worry about the ink. It sounds like there are two basic types for long term archival purposes: carbon based and the iron gall. From what I understand the carbon based will still come off if exposed to moisture and such and that is the trade off for apparently centuries of fade proofed writing. That's ... not optimal but you just keep stuff out of moisture, locked up, whatever and that should be great. The other option is the iron gall which I understand to be a bit more waterproof than the carbon based but then the issue is that the components of it tend to eat away the paper eventually. For something that you literally want to last for generations that seems like an unlikely solution if you went out of your way to buy really high quality paper.

 

So. Is that the basics of archival quality ink? It seems like there are a lot of varying opinions about what's best for what and to get back to a fountain pen question as well: what archival quality inks work best in pens and does that vary tremendously from pen to pen?

 

Thanks for your patience and information while I'm learning!

 

Interesting - if you have a link to anything you've read about the carbon based inks that would make for an interesting read. I have tried the sailor kiwaguro under water, in boiling water and I've noticed no perceptible change in the color. It's still as dark as when I first wrote with it. However doing a 10-15 minute still doesn't mean it will last centuries.

[drawline]

Definitely this:

1) Archival ink, called Black Actinic Ink, light, heat, water resistant and chemically stable so it doesn't absorb impurities - museum-quality stuff. NOTE, however, this ink is NOT safe for fountain pens, but can be used with a dip pen.

 

That is most likely as good as it can get. Noodlers bulletproof inks as well as Sailor Kiwa Guro and Platinum Carbon Ink have not endured the tests of time and I think it is outside the scope of their purpose to be as (infinitely) archival as possible. Not to say they aren't but that is the problem.

Just as shellac pigment inks may be troublesome if we are talking centuries. Similarly googling archival materials disposable pigment ink pens often come up, but same problem - who knows what they actually abide to. With this you atleast know it was designed with this purpose in mind and dont contain organic pigments and is tested to be pure.

I am not really qualified to answer, but I am also interested in archival inks and this is how I look at it.

 

You could experiment with this ink out of a cheap pen that you can take apart completely for cleaning. Possibly modifying the feed with a razor and adjusting the nib slith to flow generously. Heavily diluted Ammonia (3-5% in 1 to 10 parts of water) and Rapido eze cleaner is known to tackle almost anything if it clogs badly. Look into safety pens (which submerge the nib in the ink while not in use by design).

[tonybelding]

I'd just point out that Noodler's waterproof inks come in different categories. . .

 

Baystate Blue -- Waterproof, but vulnerable to household bleach or extended sunlight (UV rays). The other Baystate inks are not waterproof.

 

Eternal -- Cellulose reactive ink that is completely waterproof and has good resistance to bleach and UV.

 

Bulletproof -- Cellulose reactive ink that is completely waterproof and has extreme resistance to bleach and UV.

 

Warden -- Ink with both a cellulose reactive "bulletproof" component and another component to resist energy attacks. It's not completely waterproof because the energy-resistant component washes out. (Texas Blue Bonnet also falls into this category, although not advertised as a warden ink.)

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

I'd like to bring this unexpected development to your attention: the widely beloved Biffy Beans (aka Beefy Beans) has indicated serious deal-breaking problems with the Sailor nano Black HERE

 

For my tuppence worth, I'd be using an iron-gall ink: either MB Midnight Blue or R&K Sallix from an FP; or Herbin's Encre Authentique from one of those dual-reservoir Brause ornamental dip pen nibs. (HEA is quite charming.)

 

A 25% rag acid-free paper would also seem appropriate and more than fit-for-purpose. Acid-free tissue/barrier interleaf pages.

 

And good storage of the finished work is critical to longevity. Free of mold, fungus etc. vermin, varmints, folding, metals, wood, leather, plastics/paints that off-gas nasties, etc.

 

Bye,

S1

 

Bye,

S1

[fiberdrunk]

3) Technical pens, such as Koh-I-Noor, designed specifically for architects, engineers, etc. These apparently use India ink, which is also not fountain pen safe, and of course, this is not a fountain pen either.

 

 

There is a fountain-pen safe India ink called Higgins Fountain Pen India Ink (it's non-waterproof, however).

 

But your best bet is any of the Noodler's bulletproof inks (they're pH neutral, waterproof, fadeproof, etc.) I've also had very good results with Magic Color as a permanent ink (I did a review of it here). I'm an avid journaler and permanence has always been a top priority for me as well. I've been doing my own sunshine tests on Noodler's and Magic Color, and they are both holding up excellently.

Edited August 11, 2010 by fiberdrunk

[sabriel]

I am really really glad I'm a geek because I'm really enjoying learning about all these details and levels of complexity and how everyone is talking about all the differences in how inks and papers and pens all react together in different environments and situations to produce different results. It's really quite fascinating and only exemplifies a certain level of intricacy not unlike the pens themselves in their construction.

 

Anyways. At this point, I'm just going to keep reading and listening and asking questions and doing my research. I'll pick up some materials and get to testing what inks and papers seem to work best and stick em out in the sun or rain or both for a while and see what happens.

 

Sandy, your post really made me laugh and I love the signature. Redshifteffect, if I can track down those particular URLs again I'll be happy to send them your way.

 

Thanks again all for being so welcoming and informational!!

[mstone]

For my tuppence worth, I'd be using an iron-gall ink: either MB Midnight Blue or R&K Sallix from an FP; or Herbin's Encre Authentique from one of those dual-reservoir Brause ornamental dip pen nibs. (HEA is quite charming.)

Just having iron-gall on the label isn't magic. Some fade tests have shown that the R&K inks fade badly (and quickly) in the sun, suggesting that there's not much iron-gall in them (so I wouldn't trust them for archival purposes). I would add Diamine's Registrar's ink to your list, as it seems pretty durable.

[Sandy1]

For my tuppence worth, I'd be using an iron-gall ink: either MB Midnight Blue or R&K Sallix from an FP; or Herbin's Encre Authentique from one of those dual-reservoir Brause ornamental dip pen nibs. (HEA is quite charming.)

Just having iron-gall on the label isn't magic. Some fade tests have shown that the R&K inks fade badly (and quickly) in the sun, suggesting that there's not much iron-gall in them (so I wouldn't trust them for archival purposes). I would add Diamine's Registrar's ink to your list, as it seems pretty durable.

Hi -- I think this ground has been covered so many times that I hesitate to even reply or read the posts. But, since you replied to my post, I shall respond.

 

I agree that having i-g on the label isn't magic. (What is?)

And if MB states on the box that the Midnight Blue is 'Permanent for documents' is that to be ignored? If so, one may well ignore the labels and statements from all Co.s then.

 

And if the R&K i-g inks fade in the sun means little: Archival documents are not (sensibly) displayed outdoors. (or at all)

The fading may be the dye component only. What about the remaining (i-g) component? Is that 'archival'?

 

I have not used the Registrar's Ink, as I do not use Black for correspondence from my FPs. (Hence my switch to EA.)

 

And on a more personal note, while I believe it is good to make a personal/family archive, it needs a mechanism to have a Custodian who watches over the contents, and that responsibility is handed down when the original Custodian no longer can execute the C's duties. (Also distributes copies of the contents - duplication and distribution is one of the most important components of promoting permanence.)

 

I have little interest in creating permanent personal/family documents: immortality is highly overrated, yes?

However, I had a Great Aunt who was an RN; she kept a record of the family tree in terms of health-related issues. That was passed-down to a cousin who's an MD. It's valuable, but its usefulness is limited by the extent that people add information (willingness to share).

 

And it was a rude surprise that the Sailor nano Bk got a grumpy-face from the widely beloved Biffy Beans. A number of people considered the nano, being a particle ink, would be archival. Well, no tests were done - just samples - and SnBk appears to be a relatively high priced shortcut to nowhere.

 

Best Regards,

Sandy1

 

P.S.

I brought more than pickles to the party: drawn samples of MBMB and JHEA: SAMPLE LINK

[Lloyd]

And if MB states on the box that the Midnight Blue is 'Permanent for documents' is that to be ignored?

OTOH, MB proclaims their pens as being made of "precious" resin. What element number is that in the periodic table again?:roflmho:

[mstone]

And if the R&K i-g inks fade in the sun means little: Archival documents are not (sensibly) displayed outdoors. (or at all)

The fading may be the dye component only. What about the remaining (i-g) component? Is

that 'archival'?

The point is that IG doesn't fade in sunlight. So if the ink fades to almost invisible QED there isn't much IG in it. (So the question of whether the faint remaining smear is archival is pretty much moot, unless by archival you mean "can be recovered forensically".)

[fiberdrunk]

 

Anyways. At this point, I'm just going to keep reading and listening and asking questions and doing my research. I'll pick up some materials and get to testing what inks and papers seem to work best and stick em out in the sun or rain or both for a while and see what happens.

 

 

 

Yes, I'd recommend conducting your own permanence tests, because some inks claim permanence but are not (J. Herbin inks were a case in point for me... they were the first to fade to oblivion in my sunshine tests). What I do is make 2 samples... one I keep in the dark, the other in full sun. Then after a certain time period, I compared the two samples for visible signs of fading.

 

I've done tests like this for as long as a year, seeing which inks really did hold up best. Rotring ArtistColor and Magic Color have held up very well, with no discernible fading. Most of the Noodler's I have are looking good as well, except for Noodler's Russian Lermontov, which is supposed to be bulletproof... but I have noticed that the purple component is fading to a periwinkle or light blue. It remains to be seen if it will fade all together. Will update in the future. The point is, conduct your own tests on the paper you will be using, then you can be absolutely confident in what you choose.

[pharmacist]

Actually the fear for the acidity of iron gall ink is a bit exaggerated. The real problem with ink corrosion is not the acid, but actually the formation of some nocif chemical compounds (peroxides and some furan derivatives) due to improperly balanced inks the past. The germans were the first to scientifically study the optimal ink composition so to overcome these problems. The prescribed hydrochloric acid used to stabilise the ink by preventing the oxidation from Fe(II) to Fe(III) will evaporate completely when applied to the paper. It is a dissolvable gas in water.

 

The only practical problem are the nibs of the dip pens, made of cheap steel and the ink tends to attack this metal when the nib is immerged for long periods in the acid ink. Most fountain pens are made from a corrosion resistant metal (like gold, platinum and sometimes even iridium) and this not a problem at all. How acid is good iron gall ink ? maybe like lemon juice or vinegar.

 

I made my own iron gall ink and use it in my cheap fountain pens, no specific gold nibs, but plain inox nibs. No corrosion, no clogging and a very good flow. period.

 

Leave it to the germans. The ink I made is based on the german chancery "Urkundetinte" specifications, endorsed by german law to be the only legal ink for writing and signing important documents and (state) treaties. Should be archival enough, I think so.

 

Unlike the MB and Lamy Blue-Black iron gall inks, the dye componend does not bleed from the writing, leaving a greyish ghost writing (iron gall pigment), but stays firmly fixed upon the iron gall pigment on the paper.

[hari317]

 

The ink I made is based on the german chancery "Urkundetinte" specifications

 

 

Are these specifications available for download or purchase?

 

Thanks!

Hari

[pharmacist]

 

The ink I made is based on the german chancery "Urkundetinte" specifications

 

 

Are these specifications available for download or purchase?

 

Thanks!

Hari

 

 

Have a look at the sticky topic about ink recipes on the last page. It is the recipe with tannic and gallic acid in it.

[lapis]

And if MB states on the box that the Midnight Blue is 'Permanent for documents' is that to be ignored?

OTOH, MB proclaims their pens as being made of "precious" resin. What element number is that in the periodic table again?:roflmho:

Ach, Lloyd, I just love your feelings about MB. BTW, that element number of precious resin is zero.

 

Wrack!

[Lloyd]

 

 

The only practical problem are the nibs of the dip pens, made of cheap steel and the ink tends to attack this metal when the nib is immerged for long periods in the acid ink. Most fountain pens are made from a corrosion resistant metal (like gold, platinum and sometimes even iridium) and this not a problem at all. How acid is good iron gall ink ? maybe like lemon juice or vinegar.

 

I made my own iron gall ink and use it in my cheap fountain pens, no specific gold nibs, but plain inox nibs. No corrosion, no clogging and a very good flow. period.

 

There's more to a FP than just a nib that can corrode. The trim is often plated and, if next to the feed, can suffer corrosion.

[Northwoods]

The iron gall inks are great for nostalgic reasons, but they're not strictly necessary today for permanence. When the choice was between iron gall and lamp black, it wasn't much of a choice. Lamp black could wash off and wouldn't adhere to parchment (animal skin). But there are modern inks that will hold fast to paper leaving a lasting impression.

 

How lasting? Well, for one, don't expect FP inks to be 100% waterproof. They are water based, after all, and what doesn't chemically bind with the paper will wash away in water. Fading? Some inks are better than others with regards to UV resistance. Chemical fading? Again, mileage varies. Depending how long you intend to archive, you'll want to consider neutral pH for both ink and paper or all the permanence of the ink will be for naught if the ink (or acidity of the paper itself) causes the paper to deteriorate.

 

Archival quality is a term that gets toss around and everyone (even manufacturers) see it differently. Look at what your needs are, look at the characteristics of existing inks, and find the one that best meets your needs. You may not find one that covers every base, especially with a fountain pen ink, so rank importance and be willing to make some compromises. You can see here that everyone has their own preferences and they vary nearly as much as the respondents, who each have their own reasons for liking what they do. And like each of us, you'll find the one that best suits you as well.

Edited August 12, 2010 by Northwoods

[Sandy1]

And if the R&K i-g inks fade in the sun means little: Archival documents are not (sensibly) displayed outdoors. (or at all)

The fading may be the dye component only. What about the remaining (i-g) component? Is

that 'archival'?

The point is that IG doesn't fade in sunlight. So if the ink fades to almost invisible QED there isn't much IG in it. (So the question of whether the faint remaining smear is archival is pretty much moot, unless by archival you mean "can be recovered forensically".)

I'll keep this brief, so if my manner is blunt, I do not intend to offend.

 

There is no commonly accepted or formalised standard for permanence of FP inks. So any claim of permanence is iffy. (Inkjet and rollerball inks have ISO standards for permanence, but not FP ink.) Its not all plain sailing.

• When the Parker Quink inks were re-done, the word 'Permanent' disappeared from the packaging. (Ironic, no?) The nice people at Parker explained that there was no standard for permanence, so 'permanent' was dropped.
• When MB re-did their iron-gall ink, the 'permanent for documents' text was retained. (Ironic, yes?)
• And J Herbin - mute about permanence, but their inks are widely regarded as long-lived. (That was the gist of a prior thread about ink permanence.)
• And R&K continues to market an ink named 'Blau permanent'.

I see no relationship between UV resistance and permanence.

Why? Because if something is intended to be permanent, then it needs to be stored in a manner consistent with that intention; so storage conditions are dark. I imagine that one is not seeking advice on preparing road signs for the Empty Quarter using an FP and ink.

Likewise, I see no relationship between water resistance and permanence: store your goodies in a dry place, and keep water away.

 

Bulletproof is an adjective applied (wrongly IMHO) to some Noodler's inks, which are intended to be long-lived and resist nefarious acts of criminals.

But I cannot make a direct connection why those admirable attributes contribute to longevity of a properly prepared and stored record. (No criminals toting bleach, nasty chems, gases or lasers in my Archive.)

 

What if an original changes over time? We get to do forensic recovery. Cool! Maybe I'll get to meet nice well-spoken moral young men like those I've seen on those CSI documentaries.

Preservation, recovery & restoration of originals is normal & routine, so should come as no surprise, and so be scheduled.

(When movies were made on film, some of those originals were not just restored/reprinted, but transferred to another medium: digital. Same for analogue recording of music on magnetic media, and a lot of other stuff. Is the Mona Lisa on display in Paris an artful inkjet print? The Sistine Chapel frescos - copies? The Hoover Dam - a hologram? Some are known to be copies, such as the works of some modern artists who used unconventional/unproven materials/techniques.)

 

And when an ink changes during a Wet Tests I conduct, I am not overly concerned if the colour changes. (Cd'A Grand Canyon for example) I am concerned about the legibility of what might remain, and the level of usefulness.

 

Ditto if an ink fades a bit: if it is still legible, then that's OK with yours truly.

 

So what would Ms Smartypants Bigmouth do? Go shopping of course! Wheee!

Splurge on these: a red dip pen nib holder ($10ish); a dual-reservoir writing nib ($2); some 25% acid-free rag paper @ 10 cents/sheet from Staples; a pot of Herbin's EA ($10); a few 100% polyethylene bags; a clear food-grade sealable container (Rubbermaid, or similar.). Create and distribute digital copies of the records. Put digital copies 'in the ether' on one or more free online file storage places - even a 'Custodian' email address. (While you're at it, make some laserjet / inkjet copies on the 25% rag paper, and post them, unfolded of course, to those concerned.)

Keep anything but ink, polyethylene and paper out of the container; close it; put it in a cool dry dark place. And Bob's your uncle.

All for less than the cost of a Pink Lamy Safari.

Oh, check the Archive contents every score of years; and pre-arrange for the subsequent Custodian to take-over.

 

Thank-you for allowing a lady to have the last word.

 

Until the end of time,

Sandy1

[Sandy1]

And if MB states on the box that the Midnight Blue is 'Permanent for documents' is that to be ignored?

OTOH, MB proclaims their pens as being made of "precious" resin. What element number is that in the periodic table again?:roflmho:

Hmm, good question.

 

With applied knowledge I may be able to deduce a likely value. (I'm too lazy to re-activate the cyclotron just now.)

 

We have the nib: tipped with Iridium [sic] AN=192, and the Gold (Au) bands AN=197.

So I reckon that PR AN=190 - 200. Other ideas?

 

Precious, because one may be paying for the privilege of ownership. (Hey, I really do like my 149 + B nib.)

 

S1

 

:roflmho:

:roflmho: