Difference b/w Clairefontaine and Rhodia Paper

[GouletPens]

I thought this was more appropriate in this subforum instead of the reviews one, b/c I'm not really reviewing a specific product here. If it's more appropriate in the other subforum, then by all means moderaters, move it there

 

So what's the difference between Clairefontaine paper and Rhodia paper? This is a common question, one that I had myself when I first got into fountain pens. Whenever you hear talk of fine paper, Clairefontaine and Rhodia will always come up. What’s confusing though is that some people know the difference between the two, and others don’t, so rumors spread. Well I’m here to clear up some of the confusion between the two brands.

 

Clairefontaine has been making paper in France since 1858, and Rhodia has been making paper (also in France) since 1932. In 1997, Clairefontaine bought Rhodia. Their products have been long established so the brands are separate, but Clairefontaine is the parent company. The paper in the Clairefontaine notebooks and Rhodia pads is all made by Clairefontaine, but it’s not the same paper.

 

The Clairefontaine staplebounds are smooth, 90g paper, ideal for fountain pen use. The paper in the Rhodia pads is 80g, and slightly less smooth, ideal for fountain pens or pencils. That’s the big secret! There’s really not much more to it than that. There are a whole variety of different products under both brands, which might meet your needs based on your individual preferences. Check them all out for yourself and see what you might like now that you know what’s up with both brands!

 

Check out the video I made (similar info as what's here) on my vlog, Ink Nouveau: http://inknouveau.com/2010/03/episode-20-clairefontaine-vs-rhodia-paper/

 

http://inknouveau.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/R11000-6-300x224.jpg http://inknouveau.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/CFCBGroup-300x225.jpg

[2Hearts]

That's actually very useful. I used to think it was the same paper, but after getting both, I can feel the difference under the nib. Both are great, but Rhodia feels more like everyday paper, which is why I'm glad I got the Clairefontaine Mille No, which makes it extra special!

[tanalasta]

Thanks for the clarification! Always helpful

 

I'll vouch for Clairefontaine. Best everyday paper I've ever used (I have the A4 spiral notebook) - well designed, sturdy spiral and even perforated at the sides if you want to tear the pages out. And you can write on both sides without bleeding. It's smooth and wonderful and really allows you to truly appreciate your fountain pens (especially if you write in an EF or F nib like me).

[roger3]

Aha! Initially I loved my Rhodia, but learned it was only infatuation, a school boy's crush, once I became acquainted with the superior qualities of Clairefontaine. Thanks again Brian for clearing up a paper mystery (well it was a mystery to me) My nibs, most of which are Fine or XF, like Rhodia but they are ecstatic when used on Clairefontaine

Edited March 30, 2010 by roger3

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

Many thanks for laying rumours to rest.

 

In your neat video (I love the time-lapse music!) you discussed the stapled products, which is great.

 

But what of the A4 pads that I use for [personal] correspondence? i.e. The Clairefontaine 'Triomphe' paper and the Rhodia paper in the #18 pad.

 

Allow me to position myself a bit better:

• Other than personal use of the paper, I've been doing some Ink Reviews and want to continue improving the relevance of those.
• I've been requested to drop the G Lalo in favour of the Rhodia, the rationale being that more people use Rhodia than G Lalo.
• Well OK then : If the paper in the Rhodia A4 pads is the same as most of their other pads/journals, etc. then I certainly agree to the switch, as the Ink Reviews will be relevant to more people.

Also, as background, a lot of this stems from an OP by SamCapote, about doing large quantities of Ink Samples. viz. https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/146355-best-way-to-do-large-number-of-brand-comparisonsreview/page__p__1452970__fromsearch__1entry1452970

 

The Vortex roils.

 

Best Regards,

Sandy1

[Juicyjones]

Brian you are such a cool and helpful guy all over the place, thanks for the info. It's so obvious you're a big fan of pens, ink, and all the accoutrements!

[patsikes]

I read a post over on Rhodia Drive last week that talks more about this as well. Rhodia pads are specifically printed on machine No 6 in the Clairefontaine mill in France.

 

While doing some maintenance on No 6, they printed Rhodia on another machine and totally changed the final product! Read the rest of the story at http://rhodiadrive.com/2010/03/24/no-6-machine/

 

I hope nothing bad ever happens to that No 6 machine!

[GouletPens]

Hi,

 

Many thanks for laying rumours to rest.

 

In your neat video (I love the time-lapse music!) you discussed the stapled products, which is great.

 

But what of the A4 pads that I use for [personal] correspondence? i.e. The Clairefontaine 'Triomphe' paper and the Rhodia paper in the #18 pad.

 

Allow me to position myself a bit better:

• Other than personal use of the paper, I've been doing some Ink Reviews and want to continue improving the relevance of those.
• I've been requested to drop the G Lalo in favour of the Rhodia, the rationale being that more people use Rhodia than G Lalo.
• Well OK then : If the paper in the Rhodia A4 pads is the same as most of their other pads/journals, etc. then I certainly agree to the switch, as the Ink Reviews will be relevant to more people.

Also, as background, a lot of this stems from an OP by SamCapote, about doing large quantities of Ink Samples. viz. https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/146355-best-way-to-do-large-number-of-brand-comparisonsreview/page__p__1452970__fromsearch__1entry1452970

 

The Vortex roils.

 

Best Regards,

Sandy1

I myself had this dilemma...I am preparing a whole barrage of ink reviews (every J. Herbin color), and what paper to use was a big issue. You want something that is common enough that people will recognize....but that also will give an accurate picture of how the ink will perform. For me, I settled on Clairefontaine Triomphe (bright white) and G. Lalo Vergé de France ivory. There are two reasons I did this, one, is because the inks look different on white and ivory, so it gives a pretty good picture for the ink on both types of paper. Secondly, both of these papers are A4 size used primarily for correspondence. I needed a large sheet for the type of review I wanted to do. I had considered using Moleskines, Black 'n Reds, Webbies, Habanas, etc for the reviews, but they weren't big enough to fit everything I wanted. No matter what kind of paper you settle on, there will always be those who will want to see it on something else. So if you'd like to have a little niche, use a paper that maybe no one else is using for their reviews. Whatever you do, keep it consistent from review to review, because the paper is critical to the drying time, flow, shading, and color of the ink. I subscribe to the thought that it's more important than the pen in terms of the end result of the ink's appearance. Much like the type of road surface you drive on is more important than the type of gas you put in your car.

 

Triomphe is a separate breed altogether. I did a couple of videos on Triomphe as well, a Triomphe Overview, and Triomphe Torture Test. They were some of the first videos I ever did! Triomphe is 90g, smooooooooooth paper, smoother than the Clairefontaine staplebounds. It's (in my unbiased and my biased opinion) the nicest writing paper in the world for correspondence. I love it, and anytime I use ANY other paper, I always think to myself "I wish this wrote like Triomphe". It's my gold standard.

 

Brian you are such a cool and helpful guy all over the place, thanks for the info. It's so obvious you're a big fan of pens, ink, and all the accoutrements!

Thank you so much! I really am a fan first....I not only have an interest in all this stuff but I have a passion for it as well. I'm glad it shows through! I am a man who lives by his passion...it takes different forms for each person, but for me it's wood working and writing materials. I appreciate art in all its forms, but wood craftsmanship speaks to the core of who I am, and writing has connected me with some of the most passionate and spectacular people in the world. I share a common bond with fountain pen enthusiasts because none of us do it out of obligation....fountain pens are too much trouble for someone who doesn't love them. For those of us that do love them though, we share a common bond no matter what our culture or backgrounds. I love it.

 

I read a post over on Rhodia Drive last week that talks more about this as well. Rhodia pads are specifically printed on machine No 6 in the Clairefontaine mill in France.

 

While doing some maintenance on No 6, they printed Rhodia on another machine and totally changed the final product! Read the rest of the story at http://rhodiadrive.com/2010/03/24/no-6-machine/

 

I hope nothing bad ever happens to that No 6 machine!

I saw this post, very cool!

[RLTodd]

So Clairefontaine and Rhodia are the same paper from the same paper mill. The manufacture puts more pulp in one than the other. The only real difference is they print the lines on the Rhodia on a different printing press. No wonder they feel the same to me.

 

BTW, since Moleskine was brought up, and keeps getting brought up in discussions realtive to paper fountain pen use consistancy, they don't own a paper mill and paper will vary depending on who they buy it for. Moleskine is only a printer / binder, and they may be contracting that out also.

[Sandy1]

Hi again,

 

So I was going to include Rhodia in my Ink Reviews, because more people seem to use Rhodia than G Lalo.

 

BUT, as the paper I've chosen is unlined it has not been 'kissed' by the Number 5 Machine, so is not the same as Rhodia in the lined pads that were kissed by N5M.

 

So now I have to get more Rhodia - but lined this time.

And the latest review of Penman Sapphire includes all 3. :-)

 

Oh, remind me when/if you think it'll get any easier, OK?

 

Bye,

S1

[StudyAnimal]

One thing I noticed, that may cause confusion.

 

Don't many of the Rhodia products, Webbies I believe, in fact use the 90g paper rather than the 80g? As far as I know this has been the case in the US for a while, and is now standard worldwide.

 

What I don't know is which Rhodia products use the 80g and which use the 90g, what the difference is, if any, between the 90g used in the Rhodia notebooks and the 90g used in the Clairefontaine ones.

 

Just thought I raised it as the video had the goal of clearing up the confusion, but someone watching it for that purpose may come away thinking ALL Rhodia notebooks are 80g.

[nvbrennan]

I must be weird or something but I find a definite difference between the Rhodia and Clairefontaine I've tried. The Rhodia has less texture than the Clairefontain and seems greasier to me as I write on it, a little more likely to resist ink soaking into it. I'm sure this isn't subjective and for me it's a big enough difference to prefer Clairefontaine over Rhodia. But as I said, I may just be weird (I'm also writing with super-fine nibs so maybe that's what brings some differences out).

[GouletPens]

One thing I noticed, that may cause confusion.

 

Don't many of the Rhodia products, Webbies I believe, in fact use the 90g paper rather than the 80g? As far as I know this has been the case in the US for a while, and is now standard worldwide.

 

What I don't know is which Rhodia products use the 80g and which use the 90g, what the difference is, if any, between the 90g used in the Rhodia notebooks and the 90g used in the Clairefontaine ones.

 

Just thought I raised it as the video had the goal of clearing up the confusion, but someone watching it for that purpose may come away thinking ALL Rhodia notebooks are 80g.

As far as products available in the US, the Webbie and the large Weekly Planner are the only 90g Rhodia products. There are other products that are different, like the ePure that's 100g (not in US) and the pocket weekly notebook that's 64g. Rhodia Drive had a blog about just this topic not too long ago: http://rhodiadrive.com/2010/03/10/grammages/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rhodiadrivecom+%28Rhodia+Drive%29

 

If you're confused at all about the Rhodia paper, it's very simple.....all of the top and side staplebound and wirebounds have 80g paper, the large weekly planner and Webbie have 90g paper (same as what's in Clairefontaine notebooks), and the small planner is 64g. If you're in the US, that's all you need to worry about

[Rev. Nathan]

I wish Clairefontaine could be found locally. I think every Target carries Rhodia in 3 sizes (A4 staplebound journal for $5, square Reversebook spiralbound for $10, and no. 11 notepad (that's the small one) for $ 1.80). Decent prices, found easily. But alas, no luck searching through art and stationary stores for Clairefontaine. So for now, the ol' purple-gridded, orange bodied notepad is my go-to.

[GouletPens]

I wish Clairefontaine could be found locally. I think every Target carries Rhodia in 3 sizes (A4 staplebound journal for $5, square Reversebook spiralbound for $10, and no. 11 notepad (that's the small one) for $ 1.80). Decent prices, found easily. But alas, no luck searching through art and stationary stores for Clairefontaine. So for now, the ol' purple-gridded, orange bodied notepad is my go-to.

That's why many people shop online. Online retailers are often the only way for people (especially in less populated areas) to get a hold of many of the things you see on this site. I sell a bunch of Clairefontaine, as does Jetpens, Pear Tree, Writers Bloc, and several others that don't come to mind right now. Many people here do reviews of products, you can get idea of what you like, post about it and get others' feedback, and buy it from an online retailer.....b/c of the internet no one should suffer with bad paper!

Edited March 31, 2010 by GouletPens

[cpsantillan]

Thank you very much Brian for the info,is very helpful

[gyasko]

I must be weird or something but I find a definite difference between the Rhodia and Clairefontaine I've tried. The Rhodia has less texture than the Clairefontain and seems greasier to me as I write on it, a little more likely to resist ink soaking into it. I'm sure this isn't subjective and for me it's a big enough difference to prefer Clairefontaine over Rhodia. But as I said, I may just be weird (I'm also writing with super-fine nibs so maybe that's what brings some differences out).

 

Opposite opinion here. I dislike Clairefontaine because it has too much facing on it. Ink will sit on it longer than on the Rhodia, making smudges more likely. I also dislike the feel of Clairefontaine on my fingers, and that's probably also a result of how the surface is finished.

 

I like Rhodia, but i think there are a few Japanese papers that are just as good if not better.

[MicheleB]

Clair is the apex for me. It is the butter smooth, thick paper that screams elegance and wonderful writing experience ahead. I also love their smallest note book you have in the first photo. Perfect pocket notebook - truly small enough for any pocket. And I use their non descript spiral bound, black A5 notebook everyday at home. At work I use Black N Red. Rhodia I use on occasion as a travel journal. When you are on the go, it's a good hardy, but light weight paper.

[Rena]

Great information and great video, as usual, Brian.

 

I used Clairefontaine first, and was very pleased with the paper. Then I tried a Rhodia pad and found that I preferred Rhodia, mainly because the line spacing is slightly narrower on the Rhodia. That slight difference can make a big difference depending on one's handwriting, and I'm glad I tried both products and didn't just stick with the first one.

 

Question for Brian: Is the line spacing in the Rhodia Webnotebooks the same as Clairefontaine pads or the same as Rhodia pads?

[GouletPens]

 

Opposite opinion here. I dislike Clairefontaine because it has too much facing on it. Ink will sit on it longer than on the Rhodia, making smudges more likely. I also dislike the feel of Clairefontaine on my fingers, and that's probably also a result of how the surface is finished.

 

I like Rhodia, but i think there are a few Japanese papers that are just as good if not better.

 

To each his or her own, that's for sure. That's why they make both brands! It's a give and take situation....if you want smoother, more ink resistant paper, then it's going to take longer for the ink to dry....likewise, if you have fast drying paper that soaks up the ink, it's more likely to feather and bleed. The Clairefontaine and Rhodia paper and both well performing, but as to which one writes better is really up to the personal preference of the writer.

 

Great information and great video, as usual, Brian.

 

I used Clairefontaine first, and was very pleased with the paper. Then I tried a Rhodia pad and found that I preferred Rhodia, mainly because the line spacing is slightly narrower on the Rhodia. That slight difference can make a big difference depending on one's handwriting, and I'm glad I tried both products and didn't just stick with the first one.

 

Question for Brian: Is the line spacing in the Rhodia Webnotebooks the same as Clairefontaine pads or the same as Rhodia pads?

 

The ruling in the Rhodia Webbies is 6mm in the small one, 7mm in the large one. The smaller Clairefontaine notebooks have 7mm ruling, and the larger ones have 8mm ruling. I did a video review for the Webbies and for the Clairefontaine Staplebounds. The Rhodia pads have 7mm ruling....so to answer your question, the large Webbies have the same ruling as the Rhodia pads (and a few of the smaller CF notebooks).