Wenol vs. Simichrome

[eckiethump]

The original post was not a for or against the polishes, it was a straight, which is preffered Wenol or Simichrome. I stated my preferance and reasons, I think the only person in the thread so far who has.

The other discussion has been done to death on various threads. Too many respected individuals have differing views, for one to be right and the other wrong. Water is dangerous, if you are in a pool, and someone has their foot on your head.

Eric

[eckiethump]

[

A mischaracterization of the argument against it. Nib work -- repair, alteration, etc. -- is a class of all the processes involved in improving a nib in some way, so if one wants to improve a nib in some way, nib work is needed; indeed, improvement of a nib should not be attempted if one is insufficiently diligent. However, use of Simichrome is but a single process that could be used for polishing, with (arguably) other superior processes available, so the argument stands. Put another way, if one wants the results of nib work, nib work is needed, but if one wants the results of polishing, Simichrome is not needed. The argument against the use of Simichrome could also apply to some particular procedure used in nib work, if there were other superior procedures available, but there the parallel would end.

 

--Daniel

 

Yes a bad example by me in that nib work is a process, the discussion concerns a product used in a process.

Eric

[framebaer]

I say, Simi rocks!

Of course being merely the Nibmeister's Apprentice, I have learned to love the stuff.

My experience is that careful flannel cloth removal, plus occasional running H2O cleanup after an intense Simi treatment seems to remove virtually all traces. Used carefully, I think the stuff does a great job of cleaning up surface scratches, wear, dirt, etc. Yes, obviously one needs to keep it away from imprints, chasing, and delicate plating. Works great on nibs( course when we do it the nib has been detached from the pen and feed!).

My bigger concern is the daily application of it to my digits, where it resides for many hours until end-of-day wash-up!

Edited January 29, 2010 by framebaer

[rogerb]

In a place like this, Eric, one can be sure that the question "Which is better, A or B?" is usually guaranteed to get at least one reply "Neither...you should be using C!"

 

Sadly no-one seems to have mentioned C yet .... just "Don't use A" versus "Most people seem to think A is OK!" (Oh and "B has now been re-named D")

Edited January 30, 2010 by rogerb

[eckiethump]

In a place like this, Eric, one can be sure that the question "Which is better, A or B?" is usually guaranteed to get at least one reply "Neither...you should be using C!"

 

Sadly no-one seems to have mentioned C yet .... just "Don't use A" versus "Most people seem to think A is OK!" (Oh and "B has now been re-named D")

 

 

Fully agree, message boards aren't places for argument, or bad manners.

Reasoned debate and opinion, yes, but it's easy to be pedantic, when able to digest anothers view, when given the time lapse available in replying.

 

Back on topic, I prefer Wenol and am of the OPINION, that Simichrome is more popular due to it's possible greater availability in the US. Apart from the fact that I find Wenol less abrasive in use, the figures previously supplied by another poster, showing ther isn't a lot to choose in this respect. I surmise then it's down to the other agents in the product, that I find Wenol better in use.

 

Eric

[pen2paper]

ooh stomach acid mixing with my 1st cup of coffee

one of the Other abrasives your pen restoration person will find is Blue, its "FLITZ".. I mentioned it in the same thread Daniel cited.. Ron Zorn also commented on finding this IN pen innards..

maybe use ink on girl pens, blue on boy pens..

don't forget baby powder instead of pure talc when resaccing those threads

 

where's my dog, I need to go and pinch her..

wait! sO, not me

code of the pen physican should be '1st do no harm'.. in my Very humble opinion.

 

 

 

 

[FredRydr]

Sadly no-one seems to have mentioned C yet ....

Actually, I mentioned one "C" in my initial post, but I have yet to start using it. It's a two-stage cleaner and polish formulated specifically for typical vintage pen materials. Mark Hoover was demonstrating it at the Philly show, and he had a lot of fun doing so. I should have asked him about using it on mounted nibs.

 

Is there any polish that won't be an issue on a mounted nib? Perhaps that's just asking too much!

 

Fred

[gregkoos]

Thanks for all of this. I think what I'm getting from the discussion is "Think about what you are doing before you do it."

 

I've stopped the use of Simi for plastic polishing, and am trying the system from Pentiques - which seems to be developed for plastics. It seems to be OK, but I try to remember that all polishes use abrasives and I use the stuff lightly.

 

Also - I don't think much of anything except a good washing should be used on gold washed clips and rings. 

 

 

[hari317]

Is there any polish that won't be an issue on a mounted nib? Perhaps that's just asking too much!

 

Fred, I have had excellent results using a soft white pencil eraser to remove tarnish from solid gold nibs by very gentle rubbing. But it is only my experience and I dont know what the professionals think about this.

 

Best,

Hari

[rogerb]

Sadly no-one seems to have mentioned C yet ....

Actually, I mentioned one "C" in my initial post, but I have yet to start using it. It's a two-stage cleaner and polish formulated specifically for typical vintage pen materials. Mark Hoover was demonstrating it at the Philly show, and he had a lot of fun doing so. I should have asked him about using it on mounted nibs.

 

Is there any polish that won't be an issue on a mounted nib? Perhaps that's just asking too much!

 

 

 

Fred

 

Sorry, Fred, missed that.

I believe Tryphon offers several types/grades of polishes and waxes for pens?

(As I mentioned, I was sent a sample of carnauba wax with a recent order)

I don't think I'd use anything on a mounted nib which could get into the cracks and crannies (apart from some liquids...like water!)

Edited January 30, 2010 by rogerb

[islandlife]

Here are some alternatives. I have had good results by using the following methods: For gold polishing I used jewelers rouge. This is the same fine abrasive that jewelers use to add a luster to gold. It is in powdered form and applied with a soft cloth. There is no messy clean up.

 

For the pen body I used varying grades of micro mesh from 4000 to 12000. They have a proprietary grading scheme. I purchased mine from Craft Supplies USA. The grade 12000 is so fine that it could be used as a final finish. For my final finish I used Mothers plastic polish. This is an automotive plastic polish used primarily to remove scratches from headlight covers found on newer cars. I followed this up with Mothers 100% carnauba wax.

 

While applying these products I carefully monitored the process by using a loupe. Any method, if used to aggressively can be damaging. The key is to go slow and monitor your progress.

 

Finally, these methods were a one time application. I don’t think it is advisable or necessary to apply these on a regular basis except for the carnauba wax.

[kirchh]

I followed this up with Mothers 100% carnauba wax.

I don't recommend carnauba wax; it is universally eschewed by curators and conservationists due to the acids that can be produced which can attack the object.

 

--Daniel

[Vintagepens]

Mark Hoover and I have been experimenting with formulating plastics-specific polishes and cleaners as an alternative to Simichrome, Wenol, Flitz, and the like. These are, after all, made for polishing metal; in some cases, the ingredients are less than optimal for plastics and rubber, and in others, they are positively harmful. So far, we have quietly demonstrated and sold samples at the past few USA pen shows, and response has been enthusiastic. Our original polish was extremely mild, and based upon a traditional urushi lacquer cleaning formula. We have tweaked that a bit, and also reformulated a new version that is a bit more aggressive, optimized for de-oxidizing faded hard rubber. Both formulas are completely natural, with no solvents or toxic ingredients. We will be selling the stuff very soon through the American Art Plastics website, under the Pengreens label.

 

In our experimentation and research, we also took a look at waxes. I used to be fairly agnostic about waxes, but now that I know more, I'd urge caution. As Daniel mentioned, Renaissance Wax is to be avoided. Yes, it was developed by British Museum conservators. But that was back in the 1950s -- and there's not much that conservators did back in the '50s that is still regarded as acceptable now! The big problem with Renaissance Wax is that it incorporates polyethylene wax, which is all but unremovable (read more here). Other waxes may be less intractable, but no less destructive. Working with our original urushi cleaner, we soon realized that many articles of traditional Japanese (and Chinese) lacquer that looked simply awful, could be greatly improved in appearance by cleaning off the old wax -- typically applied by dealers looking to give a tired surface a quick shine. Unfortunately, not only does the wax quickly darken -- it also tends to eat into the lacquer over time. This is probably more a problem with some waxes rather than others, as we have just been observing the results after the fact.

[rogerb]

Ah, well, I have, it seems, ruined all my nice pens with Renaissance and carnauba waxes ...... but I guess no-one will notice in my lifetime

 

I wonder what was used on the 80+ yo pens which are still around and looking great.

 

Besides, the thinking/science of today will probably have been debunked in 10-20 years..... that appears to be the trend.

 

Just leave your pens developing a nice 'patina'

Edited February 1, 2010 by rogerb

[Vintagepens]

Ah, well, I have, it seems, ruined all my nice pens with Renaissance and carnauba waxes ...... but I guess no-one will notice in my lifetime

Take a look at the article cited: "In October 1991, the Benin head was lent to the National Gallery of Art, Washington, D.C., for exhibition in Circa 1492: Art in the Age of Exploration. For several years, the curators had noticed an accumulation of lint and dust on the piece and, in some areas, the 1984 wax coating had become clearly visible as a white haze on the metal surface; casting details seemed muted and flattened." So the Renaissance Wax coating had gone hazy in just a few short years.

I wonder what was used on the 80+ yo pens which are still around and looking great.

Not wax, that's for sure. The vogue for waxing pens is very, very recent -- just the last few years, really.

Besides, the thinking/science of today will probably have been debunked in 10-20 years..... that appears to be the trend.

Yes, opinions may change -- but here I think a full reversal of opinion is as unlikely as medical science suddenly deciding that smoking is good for you. And some simple observations are not open to debunking, such as the difficulty of removing polyethylene wax, and the propensity of wax coatings to deteriorate over a fairly short period of time.

[MT4]

And what about polishing dusts? There should be plenty of them, in different grades. Metallurgists use a bunch of them when mirror polishing metal (mainly steel) surfaces before etching them with nital (acid-alcohol mix) and watching them in a microscope (for grain structure). Jewelers use rouge, diamine, and others (I don't know about how grain compares to the dusts used by metallurgists, BTW), abrasive discs and stones are made out of different powders too.

 

Anyone can help us here?

 

Martin

[Ray-Vigo]

Mark Hoover and I have been experimenting with formulating plastics-specific polishes and cleaners as an alternative to Simichrome, Wenol, Flitz, and the like. These are, after all, made for polishing metal; in some cases, the ingredients are less than optimal for plastics and rubber, and in others, they are positively harmful. So far, we have quietly demonstrated and sold samples at the past few USA pen shows, and response has been enthusiastic. Our original polish was extremely mild, and based upon a traditional urushi lacquer cleaning formula. We have tweaked that a bit, and also reformulated a new version that is a bit more aggressive, optimized for de-oxidizing faded hard rubber. Both formulas are completely natural, with no solvents or toxic ingredients. We will be selling the stuff very soon through the American Art Plastics website, under the Pengreens label.

 

In our experimentation and research, we also took a look at waxes. I used to be fairly agnostic about waxes, but now that I know more, I'd urge caution. As Daniel mentioned, Renaissance Wax is to be avoided. Yes, it was developed by British Museum conservators. But that was back in the 1950s -- and there's not much that conservators did back in the '50s that is still regarded as acceptable now! The big problem with Renaissance Wax is that it incorporates polyethylene wax, which is all but unremovable (read more here). Other waxes may be less intractable, but no less destructive. Working with our original urushi cleaner, we soon realized that many articles of traditional Japanese (and Chinese) lacquer that looked simply awful, could be greatly improved in appearance by cleaning off the old wax -- typically applied by dealers looking to give a tired surface a quick shine. Unfortunately, not only does the wax quickly darken -- it also tends to eat into the lacquer over time. This is probably more a problem with some waxes rather than others, as we have just been observing the results after the fact.

 

I like the sound of this, especially the hard rubber polish. The hobby is big enough now so that we should indeed be developing our own products. I've been reasonably satisfied with the limited use I've made of Simichrome, but I would readily switch to a pen-specific polish.

[rogerb]

Yes, I read the article, but what's done is done and I have more important things to concern myself with.

 

I appreciate the warnings, and probably won't use RW again on my more valuable pens, but won't lose any sleep over it.....they're only pens (Is that heresy?)

[sumgaikid]

"they're only pens (Is that heresy?)"

 

 

Guards,burn that man at the stake..........................

 

 

John

[significantpass]

Mark Hoover and I have been experimenting with formulating plastics-specific polishes and cleaners as an alternative to Simichrome, Wenol, Flitz, and the like. These are, after all, made for polishing metal; in some cases, the ingredients are less than optimal for plastics and rubber, and in others, they are positively harmful. So far, we have quietly demonstrated and sold samples at the past few USA pen shows, and response has been enthusiastic. Our original polish was extremely mild, and based upon a traditional urushi lacquer cleaning formula. We have tweaked that a bit, and also reformulated a new version that is a bit more aggressive, optimized for de-oxidizing faded hard rubber. Both formulas are completely natural, with no solvents or toxic ingredients. We will be selling the stuff very soon through the American Art Plastics website, under the Pengreens label.

 

In our experimentation and research, we also took a look at waxes. I used to be fairly agnostic about waxes, but now that I know more, I'd urge caution. As Daniel mentioned, Renaissance Wax is to be avoided. Yes, it was developed by British Museum conservators. But that was back in the 1950s -- and there's not much that conservators did back in the '50s that is still regarded as acceptable now! The big problem with Renaissance Wax is that it incorporates polyethylene wax, which is all but unremovable (read more here). Other waxes may be less intractable, but no less destructive. Working with our original urushi cleaner, we soon realized that many articles of traditional Japanese (and Chinese) lacquer that looked simply awful, could be greatly improved in appearance by cleaning off the old wax -- typically applied by dealers looking to give a tired surface a quick shine. Unfortunately, not only does the wax quickly darken -- it also tends to eat into the lacquer over time. This is probably more a problem with some waxes rather than others, as we have just been observing the results after the fact.

Wow, this is wonderful! Will the hard rubber polish result in hard rubber which has really been de-oxidised(oxidation process reversed)?